RFID detection, reading and removal

At first glance this post wouldn't seem to be in the right forum, but hear me out. In a SHTF scenario where we are implanted against our will, our gear is tagged and we can be tracked and exterminated, this could and in my opinion will be an important survival consideration. I'd like to get the tech and know how now so that I can forget it and move on. Here's what I need to know.

1. Can I build an RFID detector with parts from radio shack? How? And with no electrical knowledge?
2. Can I step it up and build an RFID reader? How? How much more complex is that?
3. Removal. Gear is easy..just cut it out. Implanted in arm? Cut it out? Minor surgery?
4. Destruction. Microwave for 30 seconds. Cut smash ? Is it that easy?

Any links, lectures, recommended books, YouTube vids?

Cheers

Loads of stuff on electronics websites. Look up arduino if you want to do it yourself as there are buy off-the-shelf kits to plug into the arduino and similar boards. Not difficult really, although I have not done it myself. Look up sparkfun.com

Originally posted by amazing
3. Removal. Gear is easy..just cut it out. Implanted in arm? Cut it out? Minor surgery?
4. Destruction. Microwave for 30 seconds. Cut smash ? Is it that easy?

I just had a thought, maybe try to misdirect them by implanting it into or attaching it onto an animal or something. That way you won't just "drop off the radar" so they know to go looking at the last place they had a signal, but this way they might not find out your movements are strange for a day or so, enough to be well and truly gone from the place you cut it out. If they find your blood where you cut it out they could get a dog or something to track you.

Originally posted by amazing
At first glance this post wouldn't seem to be in the right forum, but hear me out. In a SHTF scenario where we are implanted against our will, our gear is tagged and we can be tracked and exterminated, this could and in my opinion will be an important survival consideration. I'd like to get the tech and know how now so that I can forget it and move on. Here's what I need to know.

1. Can I build an RFID detector with parts from radio shack? How? And with no electrical knowledge?

No. RFID implants don't transmit. If you don't have the right code, frequency and reader, you won't get a response.

2. Can I step it up and build an RFID reader? How? How much more complex is that?

Lots. Only the truth is, you don't have an RFID implant.

3. Removal. Gear is easy..just cut it out. Implanted in arm? Cut it out? Minor surgery?

Well,you won't see one, so it's not an issue.

4. Destruction. Microwave for 30 seconds. Cut smash ? Is it that easy?

You won't see one, so not a problem.

Any links, lectures, recommended books, YouTube vids?

Cheers

Some physics classes would be nice.

reply to post by Bedlam


You seem to be 100% missing the point of this thread.

The OP might need physic lessons... ( which RFID isn't linked to at all )
but you probably need reading and understanding lessons.

Originally posted by theMediator
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You seem to be 100% missing the point of this thread.

The OP might need physic lessons... ( which RFID isn't linked to at all )
but you probably need reading and understanding lessons.

Not so much. The OP was about being "implanted against our will" but the truth is, no implant transmits. Period.

No implant can be tracked. Period.

So, that seems to dispatch the OP. Waiting...I'm happy to expound on it.

The only "implants" that transmit have batteries in, and require the willing participation of the implant holder to recharge the battery. Those are limited to things like insulin pumps. Past that, it's all CT memery.

reply to post by amazing


This is all wrong.

I saw on Charlie Jade, that you don't throw away your id chip. You steal a higher up one. That way the interdimensional overlords or aliens or whoever it is in your reality, thinks you're someone above your certified level. So say you're a level 3, which is basically a drone worker. You steal a level 2 chip, and replace yours. Then when they scan you, they let you go about your business as you've scanned as an authority. Don't go crazy and steal a level 1 chip though, because everyone knows who they are. you can't get away with impersonating royalty.

But as an authority.. no worries. No one DARES ask them anything.

Problem solved. And they can continue to steal the resources of this dimension without any cause for concern that you're actually on the inside, scheming to take down o1 and his renegade team of miscreants from the gamma verse.

Why cut it out and destroy it so they send out the teams to find you and terminate your failure? You need to watch far more science fiction before you start employing these tactics.

lol


If I was to show ya the EMF you can produce with your heart and brain...ya wouldn't be worried.



trust me

reply to post by Bedlam

Not so much. The OP was about being "implanted against our will" but the truth is, no implant transmits. Period.

No implant can be tracked. Period.

Nanotechnology? Bio electricity? It is NOT within the realm of possibility, and in fact, is even currently being developed.

www.thenewamerican.com...

So, makes the OP's question a bit more pertinent, doesn't it?

And, it likely won't be a simple RFID, but more like thousands of little nanobots inside you, so surgically removing them would be almost impossible. Perhaps an EMP would thwart them, but of course the end of transmission would likely send an instant alert to the trackers. Of course, for every tech, a counter evolves. (like having a syringe of your own nanobots, injecting them into a squirrel, and THEN EMP'ing yourself, while the squirrel scampers away.)

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by theMediator
reply to post by Bedlam

 

You seem to be 100% missing the point of this thread.

The OP might need physic lessons... ( which RFID isn't linked to at all )
but you probably need reading and understanding lessons.

Not so much. The OP was about being "implanted against our will" but the truth is, no implant transmits. Period.

No implant can be tracked. Period.

So, that seems to dispatch the OP. Waiting...I'm happy to expound on it.

The only "implants" that transmit have batteries in, and require the willing participation of the implant holder to recharge the battery. Those are limited to things like insulin pumps. Past that, it's all CT memery.

edit on 2-5-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

You're half right. lol I realize that I'm not implanted yet, however, they have found RFID trackers in clothing and other gear. They also have active programs now with RFID technology like in some Texas schools where they have the RFID chip and transmitter on your school ID working with a GPS tracker. This can find you anywhere on campus and even make sure you are on the correct bus. How then does this work? My understanding so far, is that the receiver powers the chip so that it's passive until read? Thoughts.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. Much appreciated. The other direction this goes in, is for the implants in farm animals and livestock. How are they detected, read and removed if you so desire? The premise is that it's too late, you're being tracked and you want it stopped. This is a real concern, only because it's happening now in some instances. There are already RFID chips implanted for medical reasons. Thousands of them. The family that voluntarily chipped themselves after 9-11. School IDs in Texas school districts. Clothing trackers and documented plans to either have chips or your smart phones used at grocery stores, libraries and other places.

reply to post by amazing


The chips you mention aren't transmitters though, they are read in the presence of the tagged animal, etc.

However, transmitting chips are certainly doable with today's technology (heck, even decades ago), but the real fear will be nanotechnology tracking devices, in the years to come.

we have an Alex Jone's fan! RFID chips won't track you like a GPS,they only transmit when near a reciever/amplifier,whatever thing...The "chip" in your clothing is the same as they use in stores to prevent shoplifting,when you walk thru the door detection device.They only "activate" if your within the short range of the device,a few feet.The chips in dogs and cats need to be scanned to find them,its not like a drone can fly over and find them.Maybe there is such a device,but it would need lots of power.You could wrap yourself in tinfoil...

reply to post by blkcwbyhat


Ha.. No, I was really interested in this technology long before I ever heard anything about Alex Jones. If they can't track you with these chips or scan you as you enter a public building then of what use are they. They are tracking students with these. How does that work then? They are also GPS equipped in some cases. How does that work? In the case of a store with RFID chips in merchandise, How far away does the reader need to be? If it's a doorway, then you could be looking at 5-10 ft? What's to say that this technology isn't increased or evolved to the double that distance in the next few years. All possible. This is real technology in use today and not science fiction.

reply to post by amazing


Would think a high magnetic or emp mass exposure Natural cosmic SOL or artificial device would short circuit, its just locating mri orcscan type devices. Cell towers but you can get cooked siting in front of those antenna but if re managed and aimed perhaps then defuse mass possible.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Not so much. The OP was about being "implanted against our will" but the truth is, no implant transmits. Period.

No implant can be tracked. Period.

Nanotechnology? Bio electricity? It is NOT within the realm of possibility, and in fact, is even currently being developed.

www.thenewamerican.com...

So, makes the OP's question a bit more pertinent, doesn't it?

Not really. Your cite says nothing about implants transmitting out of your body. Because they don't, really. Inevitably, if you pick the article's root sources apart, you'll find that they are discussing a near field part with a strap-on interrogator that has the actual transmitter in.

Albrecht is as dependable a cite on RFID as Greer is on UFOs, by the way, it's not her field of expertise, but it's her bread and butter.

The size of the part isn't, in general, an issue. So the "nano technology" argument (it's not that applicable for electronics of this type) isn't valid. Bio-electricity is extremely limited, and again, isn't a factor. What the issue is, is that you are a bag of salt water. The path loss coming and going is astoundingly high. In addition, there is a profound impedance step entering and leaving a body in air. So you lose the majority of signal at that step, because the field lines want to bend around the transition. In order to get a signal through this that's still readable, you have to aim for the 'window' around 400MHz where your body craps on radio signals the least, although it's still really awful, and use a comparative lot of power to get a tiny signal through. That's what MICS does. But it's still just nanowatts of signal left, the MICS interrogator still has to be a few inches away although not in close contact like a NFC part.

Another issue with supposedly transmitting implants is that you have to have an antenna that's 1/4 wave or longer. Even a 10GHz signal will want 3cm of antenna length or so. So it's not real hard to miss when someone's stuck a 3cm long rod in you. That's another reason why the size of the part wouldn't matter a lot - the antenna will swamp it out. MICS uses a folded antenna, the way that radio signal RFID parts do. You may have seen them in books and such as theft control, if you hold them up to the light they have a serpentine antenna on them that is several inches in total length, but you can only condense them so much because if it's packed too tight they will merge electrically and quit being a folded antenna. But even folded they're too big to implant casually. A MICS device is usually something relatively massive - an insulin pump or pacemaker. Not a super secret microchip. Of course, those don't exist as described in CT lore.

Originally posted by amazing
You're half right. lol I realize that I'm not implanted yet, however, they have found RFID trackers in clothing and other gear. They also have active programs now with RFID technology like in some Texas schools where they have the RFID chip and transmitter on your school ID working with a GPS tracker. This can find you anywhere on campus and even make sure you are on the correct bus. How then does this work? My understanding so far, is that the receiver powers the chip so that it's passive until read? Thoughts.

A problem is that there is a tendency in journalism to lump every type of RFID, and there are several that are very much different qualitatively, into one bucket. Mainly because the journo doesn't understand the issue, and passes his/her confusion on to you as a bonus.

The Texas school system uses an e-field (radio type) passive RFID, but does NOT have a GPS tracker. There are no RFID parts with GPS in them. The rooms in the school and areas of the open campus have interrogators, the badges have passive RFID with nothing but a serial number in them. By polling the badges in the area, you know the room the kid's in. Why would you need gps? The same for the buses, they have an interrogator in them and poll the badges on the bus. The bus knows where it's at, so why have GPS on each badge? They don't have it. It takes WAY too much power, and in any case, you know where the interrogator is, and you know it's within a few feet of the badge by definition.

And yes, the parts are passive. The extremely low power available to them from an e-field interrogator sort of limits what they can do onboard, so that's why invariably they do nothing but return a serial number. In addition, they don't actually transmit anything - they vary their reflectivity to the interrogator by diddling the impedance of the badge's antenna. The interrogator can sense varying degrees of reflection from the card and interprets it as data. Sort of like shining a flashlight at someone who signals back to you with a mirror. It's basically a tiny radar setup in the rough, you even use the basic radar equation to calculate the return amplitudes.

The other direction this goes in, is for the implants in farm animals and livestock. How are they detected, read and removed if you so desire?

Most locator type livestock tags are basically little stripped out GSM telephones. They're not implanted. You track them the way you track a cell phone. There are others that are ad hoc GPS parts, batteries, and some sort of transmitter/receiver setup, but most of them are not.

Actual implanted tags ala verichip do not transmit and can only be read by a near-contact interrogator, like a dog chip. These parts do NOT use radio, they use magnetic fields and are called near-field or h-field parts.

Originally posted by amazing

If they can't track you with these chips or scan you as you enter a public building then of what use are they.

They're great for what they do. If you need to spot something within a few feet, maybe 100 feet at most, and all you need is a serial number back, then RFID can be made to work for you. Since the ranges are limited, you will always know where the target is if you know where the interrogator is.

They are also GPS equipped in some cases. How does that work?

It doesn't, because none of them have GPS. You see a believable article where it says they do, you'll always find that there's a separate interrogator involved that's strapped on to the person/animal/item and it's a GSM phone module.

In the case of a store with RFID chips in merchandise, How far away does the reader need to be? If it's a doorway, then you could be looking at 5-10 ft? What's to say that this technology isn't increased or evolved to the double that distance in the next few years. All possible. This is real technology in use today and not science fiction.

You can only get so far away. For near field parts like implants, you run up against the 'lambda wall' where you can no longer read the part, and that's physics. Tout est fini. Long before you reach that limit, and it's meters, not miles, you will not be able to read the part due to horrific SNR issues with near field and distance reads.

For e-field parts, you can, with a LOT of effort, read several hundred feet. But you end up with SNR limits as you go farther due to the aperture of the card becoming effectively zero at distance. And consider - the part is powered by the interrogator's radio signal, you still get square-of-the-distance power density issues on the send side. So as you go away from the interrogator, you lose available power for the part as the square of the distance. In order to power an e-field part at a mile, I'd be frying up birds near the interrogator. You also start including more and more parts in your footprint as you go, if a large number of tags are out there, and your ALOHA times will reach into days trying to pick out the one part you'd want. It's not practical, and it's not practical in ways that are physics limited. It's not like you can just make a better part and fix the lambda wall issue.

reply to post by Bedlam


Thank you for the additional, detailed information.

However, is it inconceivable that nanotechnology will evolve within a decade or so, to allow for such a tracking system, especially if the entire network of nanobots within a person served as the antenna?

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Thank you for the additional, detailed information.

However, is it inconceivable that nanotechnology will evolve within a decade or so, to allow for such a tracking system, especially if the entire network of nanobots within a person served as the antenna?

You need the electron flow to get the radio wave. Separate nanobots won't do. If you look at nanobots as a possible tech, you'll also see that as they become smaller than the current "smart dust" (which is more like "smart sugar cubes" at present...) then they can no longer mount an effectively large radio antenna, and have to use light to communicate. If you wondered why they talk about 'smart dust' using lasers to communicate that's why - you can't transmit or receive from it with radio, the antenna's too short.

Emitting from inside a person is power intensive and inefficient, sort of like broadcasting radio under the ocean. There's a reason you don't see people doing it.

That's why you invariably see implants being h-field devices, like a Verichip. The issue with them is that they're NFC. It's got its good and bad points. With NFC you can get a lot more power to work with, thus all your credit card and passport parts are h-field. You need it to power that micro that's onboard. And you don't interact with magnetic fields, so they'll work from inside you just fine.

But the downside is that the power density of h-field falls as the SIXTH power of the distance, not just squared. And then there's the entire "NFC has to be near field by definition" so when you're outside the lambda wall, it's no longer near field, it's propagating radio waves, and they don't convey back the load signaling that the device uses to communicate.

The target device in NFC, you see, it doesn't transmit either. It just tosses a load onto and off of the coupling coil. The interrogator sees this as a varying load on its output coil. That's one reason why NFC is so heinous at distances. If you are looking for a 0.1% variation as a return signal at contact, great. But remember that the power density goes down as the sixth power of the distance. So as the card/implant/whatever moves away from near contact, the power you have to deliver to the interrogator coil to excite the tag ALSO goes up as the sixth power of the distance. So you have to deliver more and more output power in a very steep curve. And that signal coming back from the card? Drops off as the sixth power of the distance as well. So now, I'm having to separate tiny tiny variations in my output coil as I'm belting out huge power levels and getting back sixth power tinier and tinier variations. Really quick you run into signal to noise ratio issues. Way before the lambda wall.

And again, consider the impedance step issues.

Ever have an ultrasound done? Notice that they don't hold the head a foot or two away and wave it at you? Why?

It's obvious that they can get an image from inches away, after all, they can image all the way from contact to the back side of your body.

But they don't do that. They touch you with it. Moreover, they don't just touch you, they use goop between you and the head. What's that for?

Well, although ultrasound is sound and not radio, a lot of things are pretty analogous, and this is one.

The reason they don't scan you from a distance with ultrasound is that your body is a BIG impedance step from air. And so even if they optimize the sound head for air emission, when that beam hits you, it scatters at the air-you interface due to the impedance step. Most reflects away. Some forms a wave along the boundary. Very little of it goes into you. But what does is no longer a beam, and when it comes back as an echo, hits the very same impedance step the other way, again scattering and reflecting.

The goo is to match the impedance of the ultrasound head to the impedance of your body, in an attempt to reduce the step change.

Radio waves propagating in free air see you as a huge impedance step. Same problem. You're also conductive, so you dissipate radio wave energy as heat. That varies with frequency, it's worse at high frequencies. But high frequencies are what you want, to get that antenna size down. By the time you get the antenna size down to implant levels, you're absorbing something like 99.999% of the signal every cm. Combine that with the loss at the body-air transition coming and going, ahd it's curtains for GPS signals OR some sort of internal transmission.

Plus, even with an e-field part with a 'normal' antenna in air, you only have microwatts of power to work with. Embed that in a person, make the antenna heinously inefficient, and you have bupkis to transmit back with.