African Country; Early Nazi Germany?

Hear me out. This is just hypothetical. Please do not get offended. This is chat. Again, this is just hypothetical - it states nothing offensive.

Passing over the later things Hitler done and the hate speeches; it is indisputable that the ideology and hard work espoused by the regime greatly aided in Germany's rapid advancement. After world war 1, they were in a mess and a firm and strong hand was needed. The self-pride (even if misguided racial pride) that pervaded aided in the advancement greatly.

And this, I believe is a phase that an African country should go through (minus the genocide and hate of course).

So, hypothetically speaking, surely certain Sub-Saharan countries need such race pride in order to advance quicker? Ergo, if I were a charismatic and moving entity like Hitler, how could I go about transforming a poor African nation into a greatly successful one (providing I'm hypothetically of that nationality)?

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

I'm hearing your point...but I think the reality in Sub-Saharan Africa just doesn't allow for it. It's been one of the main focus points for my semester geography course above all other regions and a fascinating one at that. In fact my term project right now is entirely about Kenya (wonderful nation in a real bad neighborhood..but I digress) ..

Specific to point, The Sudan has the Government in the North and the slaughtered in the South. To the Government Blacks in the North, the Blacks in the South aren't the same or properly Black enough for their liking and below value for consideration ..hence, wiping out their villages systematically and then rousting them across the region, one refugee camp after another is just life in The Sudan these days. A horrible thing..but hardly unique to that country. It's simply the more high profile of the regional nations undergoing such brutality as a matter of course..

....and almost entirely Black on Black. China has some hard core inroads into Central and Southern Africa but China is no colonizing power. They have no interest in that. It's just economic advantage for minerals and resources to them and little impact for the better...although worse is a real debatable point. I just don't see how the Racial pride you would point to would even factor into Sub-Saharan Africa as it stands today?

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens


Okay, dude. Your post is asking if there is a certain pride point, that has negative attributes like Nazi Germany, that might actually guide a country forward. Here's the thing: it doesn't matter.

At some point, you just stand back and look at the math. You look at the politics. When you see that there are people, like Bill Gates that have more money than small countries - when you see that there are corporations with more money still, when you see them operating internationally, you see the actual picture of the world. The choices small African countries have is whether to sell their resources to China, US, or some other big power. Often, they don't have that choice - its made by unaccountable leaders.

So the real issue is that the world is just too interconnected at this point for anything like a racial/nationalist narrative to shape anything. At least that's my view of the situation.

edit: And here's another thing - there is this "first, second, third" world narrative from the western world that promotes the idea that Africa is part of the "developing" world, and they are "behind us", and will end up with a society like ours from a few decades ago in a few more decades. Its the same thinking that leads North Korea to try to "catch up" with the US in terms of nukes - useless weapons in this connected world. Yet the countries that really lead aren't trying to catch up with any one - they are looking at the hard science, and plotting their own way forward. There are countries in Africa NOW that are promoting a bicycle centric culture, and therefore really are positioning themselves for cultural leadership in a world that is running out of fossil fuels. Meanwhile those who think they are "catching up" will find themselves at the pump with $14 a gallon gas, wondering how they can fill up their 8 MPG 57 Chevy's to live their 1960's America culture. Its an illusion, its useless to chase after the courses of development that played out in US, Germany, or any other such country. Many of these "first world" countries are looking at collapse - the wise are looking at the future plotting their own unique course.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yes, it is problematic - I was just considering some avenues in which a country in Africa could progress rapidly.

With racial pride, it's my belief that this was a large factor in Germany's rapid rise - but do note, such racial pride does not have to be true or based in science (as it wasn't with Nazi ideology), however, it does interlink with people's perceptions of themselves and their countrymen, i.e. they think of themselves as part of something bigger, something greater. Such was a major factor in Nazi Germany. Rousing ideology is a powerful thing in humans - it can change an entire people; it can make or break them.

reply to post by tridentblue


I fully understand what you mean.

Let's further consider your post in the manner below:

What if the majority of the population in, say, Nigeria, roused by a popular leader (not the President) demanded the rights of their lands back, demanded multinationals leave and refused to work! Surely, the US and China would be forced to leave because an entire people has said "NO!" Those multinationals do a lot of damage to African countries - and the revenue doesn't even get down to the people!

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

You raise the most interesting point here. In fact, believe it or not, the home portion of my essay for the Geo Final Exam is to choose an LDC (Less Developed Country) and write something like a thread OP with citation page on precisely that. What would I tell the Government leaders about how best to use their national resources to achieve long term success and stable production for their citizens.....

I haven't started it yet because I can't think of quite what I can say that isn't just campy slogans and bumper sticker level wishful thinking. Maybe I'll pick an Asian LDC. They'd be easier than the endless war torn landscape of much that is modern Africa.

All in all though? I'd say they need to look to the nations that more or less work. Kenya is an outstanding example and the more I've learned about it for my term project, the more I am determined to see that nation some day. If they followed whatever magic Mojo Kenya has working to keep it all together and peaceful amid a region of war torn mess? Well, places like Somalia and Congo might have a shot?

How to transform what is already an abyss of pain and suffering into an oasis of stability though? That's the question that would get you the Nobel Peace Prize I think.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by tridentblue

 

I fully understand what you mean.

Let's further consider your post in the manner below:

What if the majority of the population in, say, Nigeria, roused by a popular leader (not the President) demanded the rights of their lands back, demanded multinationals leave and refused to work! Surely, the US and China would be forced to leave because an entire people has said "NO!" Those multinationals do a lot of damage to African countries - and the revenue doesn't even get down to the people!

Yeah, that's a good question. But let's just, for the sake of argument, say that's our cause. How are we going to make it happen? We need the majority of the population roused, so we need the majority of the population on the same page. That means we need to be the prime trusted source of information for all the people in Nigeria. That means we need to either out compete BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, whatever other news sources they use (which is a mammoth challenge that takes hundreds of millions in itself) Or we need to shut them down, which brings accusations of a totalitarian state shutting down free speech, and calls for an intervention. Or maybe something outside the box, like cell phones for all of them pre-programmed with out information outlet. But to do that, we need we a cell phone maker like Samsung. Samsung who makes the cell phones, who get the chips from Technocorp Taiwan, who get the rare earth minerals from BahBlahMiningCorp china, who get pays the Rare earth minerals from underneath the country we plan on distributed the phones too. The liberation of the country threatens to raise prices in a way that goes strait back to Samsung, even if we have the money to buy the phones, so they nix the contract.

People like presidents have authority, but many of these multi-national corporations have power, different things. There is this web of power that reaches all over the world which holds on to the status quo, that's not clearly visible in terms of authority. Standing up against it is very, very hard. For most, its better to try to understand the webs of power, and plot courses that work around them. Its seriously the best we can do in most circumstances.

I would almost think you were not a racist troll if it wasn't for the little known fact that Hitler was actually Austrian( a country he invaded) with Germanic roots AND you didn't post another disparaging post about Africa a few seconds later dummy. Are you an Idiot, drunk or are people here that really uninformed? (BTW I am Caucasian )

reply to post by IAmARock


I'm black myself, chap. I genuinely want a positive future for Africa - I was merely considering different avenues.

If you especially looked back at my previous post in this thread, you would see that whilst I do not believe racial pride has any actual basis, it is still nevertheless a powerful force in people's minds; it makes them believe that they're part of something bigger, something greater.

reply to post by tridentblue


Wow, excellent answer - so we clearly have a situation where the corporations have the massive power. If we could sort out the corruptions interwoven in some political systems, we would then just need to sort out the corporations... but forcing them out wouldn't be an option - making a country self-reliant? The thing is if the people in this certain country had the expertise, then that country could use the rare minerals itself, instead of trading them out...