A Youth Speaks Out, A Elder Takes Notice

Hello my fellow members. For just to be reals sake, I would like to start from the dog and work my way back to the tail if I may.
The "Dog" being, I may have a answer which most of us know from being members here, most questions always remain left open with preponderance on the solution.

In my simple travels today, I feel I may have hit upon a simple fundamental of a answer to a alternative for one thorn in the side, "Our Youths Education."

How did I come to this you might ask? Let me show you...

Earlier today I came across a video which I deemed worthy enough to share but didnt feel it was worthy enough of Top Secret, so I posted to Below Top Secret.
This is the video and what I posted: I am posting this so you can see how I got to my conclusion later:

My daughter brought this video below to my attention and I must say I was quite impressed. Not only does it show just how much the youth of today has a grasp of what is going on, I cant help but think the things they are saying are the same things I felt and thought in my youth as well. Im guessing if any of you take the time to watch this, you may very well find yourself feeling the same way. Seems every generation of youth, at least probably from the 50's on have voiced this same thought. The beatnixs, the hippies, the list goes on. Question is I guess, which generation is actually going to make the change?Would any of us be any different now if things were different in are youth? Would this fine man even had to of made this video? Well, Im sharing it, up to you to watch or not, but I'd love to hear your opinions on it if anything.

The video:


Now my first response from a member was quite nice as in the fact that he shared some more from this young man. That can be seen HERE
Scroll to first response from MrMaybeNot.

It was actually the second poster that got my brian going as you can see:
Their Comment from Donahue:

Even though it all makes sense. Since you are a member of this site then you should know that this is the way education will be and life. We are slaves and college makes great debt to keep you in check always feeding the government your tax money. Banks and collection agencies just prosper off your debt in return giving the government their cut through taxes. Be real people. The rest of human kinds existence has been pre-planned hundreds and hundreds of years ago. No generation will change the fate of man kind its set in stone. I've been saying this for years. College has become the next high school degree. I'm sure in the future, like now, but more prominent and sophisticated schools will become the norm for the next step for obtaining jobs that don't even require some of the course's they have taken. People will talk about these situations but nothing relevant or redeeming will come of this. It's set in stone. Get over it and adapt. Think outside the box. That is when you will prosper.

Which of course led to my response of the following, and also where I had my lightbulb burned brightly after posting my response which was this:

While I agree with you sir on certain points, I must say for myself I have always been a out of the box thinker. Probably one reason I am a member of this site. I also see where you say it has been set in stone, BUT, it only takes a hammer to smash a stone and I think the time is upon us finally. Even their stone is crumbling from "Lack of Funds" and cancelling so many programs across the board in schools. Talk about dumbing down in your face... Here is a dream, how about specialty schools becoming the norm. Take the schools we have, and let the students decide the classes they like. You like science or math, well, take those classes. You like to dabble in art, music, sports? Take one of those classes too. Funny, you get your choice when you go to college. Why not at a younger age? Say you spend the first few years leaning the basics? Math, (add, subtract, multiple, divide), Reading. I know the norm is reading writing arithmetic, but I think if you can read, you can write. In this day and age, most just type and text, all ready a training in place. Even stones wear away after a time after being subjected to the elements... Perhaps a simple change of the elements equation yes?

Which leads me to here and why I have decided to move my thoughts to Above Top.
What if there was a school that you could send your child too that let them decide themselves what interest them? Do you remember at what age things truly interested you? At what age would you think they are smart enough to know what interest them?
Would you take the chance? Whould you send your child to a school that catered to their interest? What if it became the public norm? Do you think it would make a difference in our society now?

They say the younger years are when we are open to learn the most. Would it not be better to let the mathematician start earlier with strict focus on their natural ability without outside needless stresses? Same for any other subject or pursuit... Would we not progress by leaps and bounds?

Hopefully by now you can understand why I brought this here. I really find myself itching to find a way to make this work. I cant help but think this may be one vision that could work. One youths dream we have all had, finally connecting to the age and wisdom that can make it happen. Would YOU support it?

reply to post by onehuman


simple. I would absolutely follow it. I was one of those kids. failed grades. Above average national scores.

Well, there are certain things that just MUST be taught. Those are math and science. History is so skewed and I think that kids should get that in college. My oldest had some very progressive history professors, some that required him to read Howard Zinn. That is stuff you don't get in the grade schools.

We have a public education system. As we should. I don't have a problem with the curriculum per say; it is the teaching to standardized testing that is messed up.

There are all kinds of ways for kids to go on to higher learning. There are grants and loans. That is the way it works.

Do I think that all Americans should be able to access degrees for free? Or trade schools for those that just aren't into books? Hell yes. How about we nationalize out natural resources to benefit all Americans, instead of the privatization for profit??

reply to post by onehuman


This is a true dilemma.

On one hand, it would be great if everyone were able to learn what they wanted, when they wanted, and in the manner that is the best for their way of learning.

On the other hand, and apart from theology and how to survive, the greatest knowledge a citizen can have is the same knowledge the other citizens have. It isn't important if the world is flat, there was or wasn't a big bang, or there is or isn't macro-evolution - what is important is that you know what everyone else knows - that is what is most valuable to society. If you do not know/hold the same opinion as what others have, then you will be ostracized everywhere you go.

reply to post by onehuman

What if there was a school that you could send your child too that let them decide themselves what interest them? Do you remember at what age things truly interested you? At what age would you think they are smart enough to know what interest them?
Would you take the chance? Whould you send your child to a school that catered to their interest? What if it became the public norm? Do you think it would make a difference in our society now?

This already exists...the Montessori method has been around for decades.

Montessori education is characterized by an emphasis on independence, freedom within limits, and respect for a child’s natural psychological development. Although a range of practices exists under the name "Montessori", the Association Montessori Internationale (AMI) and the American Montessori Society (AMS) cite these elements as essential:[2][3]

Also, there exist in public education programs for "talented/gifted" kids who get bored in regular curricula and are ahead of their peers - in those programs Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) are developed by the dedication teacher, the student, and the parents together.

Although IEPs first came to be as a result of the IDEA act (legislation that was designed so that disabled Individuals could be included as much as possible in mainstream classrooms but with specifically designed curricula to support their learning experience), they also are formed for kids ahead of the average.

IDEA is a federal law - I'm fairly sure EVERY public school district has "alternative" programs, whether it's for learning disabled, emotionally troubled, or gifted/talented learners. One needs only to ask the administrator at the school for access to these programs, or call the district offices to find out more about them.

I did take advantage of them when my very intelligent kids were in school. They were immensely helpful, as my kids got very bored and restless in regular classes that weren't moving along in accordance with their capacity. I also worked in the alternative schools for troubled kids. One that was housed in an old Elementary school, and we had the entire building and served K-12 kids from whole district there. The second one was a suburban school district and the classrooms were adjacent to those for the physically handicapped and learning-disabled, in the same building.

Yeah, this is not really a new concept, as has been mentioned Montessori schools go way back, home schooling is fantastic if the parents have a level of intellect and that is usually based on the mothers wherewithal...from what i grasp.

I was educated in a loose environment, but overall and as it stands now, a traditional route is usually a better way to go. One thing i notice is that gauging intelligence in others can be perceptive and illusory, often time pre-conceived notions play too much a part, albeit unwittingly. This is because it is easier to fluke. Decision making abilities take a back seat to, as an example, crunch numbers like a human calculator is all well and good but not much different than someone who can draw a painting that can be viewed as actual art or write a classic song.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
Well, there are certain things that just MUST be taught. Those are math and science. History is so skewed and I think that kids should get that in college. My oldest had some very progressive history professors, some that required him to read Howard Zinn. That is stuff you don't get in the grade schools.

I would forego history especially at college level unless you want people who are relatively dim and this is due to so much of it based on no actual evidence. Today i was watching a show on a well respected channel, and just to give you an example, they were discussing an event that took place regarding the Mongols and i have to say i saw way too much conjecture. Then as you mentioned someone like Zinn (as in your example) writes a book but based off of really no actual evidence at all. It is like standing up and asking the "professor" "well, how do you know?" answer: "dont ask those questions, how dare you ask questions like that?"

It is a shame too. As for myself, by fifth grade i had had it due to history classes and i protested for a full year by looking out the window because honestly i learned more form the squirrels running around and playing than what was going on in the class. The good part was an awareness and recognition of living things with no pre-conceived notions, vanity, competition etc. It is funny because you can get really close to actual communication and really just left me feeling that there is a lot more going on there with these beautiful little creatures than just running around digging holes and playing so that was closer to actual communication than just walking by. Although history at grade school level to be taught is understandable.

My contention is to teach things that will help civilization and really there is too much of an obsession with the past and too little emphasis on the future. I guess civilizations can grow stale and nostalgic for really things in the past that are almost entirely based on feeling. By college i would just say "Professor, i am not interested in your opinion, but if you actually know something i wouldn't mind learning it" That is my opinion.

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to reply. All very nice responses.

I am aware of many of the schools you folks have mentioned. I guess I was just thinking more on the lines of public schools. If they were set up a little differently. I wonder if there would be less anger. Face it, when the youth get bored, they get antsy and then it just snowballs from there. Perhaps if they had the option to be in classes they may care about those tensions would ease up a bit.

Maybe more of a trade school set up. I know, they exist as well, but I mean for younger people. Say starting at around 14 or 15. They act all grown up by then anyway and think they know it all, as did I! If these type of options were more attainable for the poor I just cant help but think things might be a little different.

Lol as for the remark made about peoples fascination with history, we sure dont learn much from it as it tends to keep repeating itself eh?!

reply to post by onehuman


I've heard about educators working toward a much more interactive kind of public schooling - NPR has had several pieces on the ideas that are floating around. Rather than "lectures", they are wanting to use technology and the internet for the "resource information", and have classes designed for DISCUSSION of the things, rather than rote learning group-style.

Frees the teachers up to give one-on-one feedback, I think it's a great idea.

reply to post by onehuman


The problem in regards to pre-high school children is that they need to learn discipline and some regimentation. I mean discipline as far as not just wanting to do what you want to do. Hard work has its rewards.

reply to post by onehuman

Public Schools

Montessori is a presence in more than 400 U.S. public schools, including neighborhood, magnet, and charter schools.

Public Montessori programs come in many sizes, from a single early-childhood classroom to an entire elementary, junior high, or high school. Some share a facility with other programs that have a different instructional approach.

Teachers in public Montessori schools have a dual responsibility. In planning an age-appropriate Montessori curriculum, they need to make sure it matches their state’s grade-level standards.

Public Montessori school students must take the same standardized tests as students in traditional public schools.

source of quoted text

That's only 400 public schools and that includes charter schools and the alike. Also note that, because they're public, they still have to plan their courses so students pass state mandated tests.

That's 400 of about 100,000.

I think what Montessori in America amounts to is that the teachers and students get to pick how they want to teach and learn, but what they teach and learn is still mandated.

More, the young man in the video seems to be British, and I could not find out if they have to pass standardized testing, but I assume they do too.