Marion Co. (Florida) schools lift ban on paddling students

reply to post by UberL33t


Kids go to schools to LEARN.

Discipline belongs at HOME.

Keep it up, Florida! You're making the rest of the country look civilized!

I think it is quite silly to hit kids at school. From my experience it does nothing to help. I had a time in my early teens when I was acting out ,nothing too bad , mostly just not following instructions, not minding. I was paddled a few times and it did not really faze me in the least. I think if my punishment had been more time at the school doing things like cleaning the gum off the bottom of desks ,stuff like that.....it would have had an impact on my behavior. But hitting is just silly and ineffective. That is my personal opinion and it comes from much experience in the matter.

I bet that some of the advocates of spanking/beating/paddling students are people who spank(ed), beat and/or paddle their own kids.

Violence is a cycle that once it starts, it can't be stopped. Congratulations.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


So basically school does nothing, parents do nothing and child grows to become a ward of the state for life. So reigns the status quo.

I would agree with you all that say this is a bad idea, if:

Schools were allowed a three strike system. After three instances of improper conduct the child was barred from the school grounds. Let the parents teach them if they can't behave in school or move to another school system and try again.

Poor parenting is the cause, letting the parents "handle it" will not work!

reply to post by UberL33t


I went to school during the late 60s and 70s, teachers were allowed to spank students, I remember having my hands hit once with a ruler, the worst was to have your parents come to school for miss behaving and getting double spank.

But you know what? it was more respect toward adults back then and we did just fine, as a former teacher I have to say that this days children have no respect for teachers or even their own parents anymore, will I spank somebody else child? no I would not.

Sad how society have changed so much.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
I bet that some of the advocates of spanking/beating/paddling students are people who spank(ed), beat and/or paddle their own kids.

Violence is a cycle that once it starts, it can't be stopped. Congratulations.

For cryin out loud, we are talking about a form of discipline here, that when done correctly is nothing even CLOSE to abuse. That is part of the problem with our society today...so enabling. Kids don't think they have to treat ANYONE with respect anymore because there are NO consequences for it, at home OR at school.

I spanked each of my children ONCE..it didn't even hurt them, but it was enough to cause such surprise that they never did it again because they realized they had crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed with a parent. That line is RESPECT and it is time to instill some of it back into this society, for both kids AND adults.

reply to post by westcoast

they realized they had crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed with a parent.

Therein is what I believe is a majority of the issue as you specified. Moreover, "the line" on a number of issues has been blurred or all but erased these days imho.

For me, it was usually "the look" was sufficient as "the lines" had been established early on in the first few years and the precedence was set. Parenting became a breeze after that, my kids and I had a mutual respect for one another and still do. That respect, when instilled early on, I feel carries with a person for life and reflects on all the people that cross paths with them from there on in my experience...and so goes the opposite.

All corporal punishment is pathetic. Sorry to rant here but this whole Prussian model school system is really starting to piss me off. You have to create an environment where kids want to learn, using an authoritarian tool like this is not only disgusting, it doesn't work.

I know everyone screams education sucks! But it's true, it's following the exact same model the Prussians used to indoctrinate there citizens. Throw critical thinking and asking questions out of the window and you have a new batch of kids that are so lost and brain dead they'll be scratching their heads down the road later when they reach the next indoctrination center, College. Then they can spend 90,000 dollars on a useless degree and work as assistant manager to wal-mart, at least they don't have to be a greeter.

Hey it's not that bad, college degrees are now the new high school diplomas.

Is anyone else seething with rage when they hear this #? The schooling systems are so pathetic (own purpose) that people don't even laugh at it anymore, they just go along with it. It's like in 1984 where Julia sees the Gov. as something unchangeable, like the sky. It's like that way with the economy too.

anyway... /end rant.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by 200Plus

 

What then is an alternative?

The answer is simple...

Tell the parents how their child behaved and let the parents decide what the punishment should be, the teacher/principal is in no position to decide whether or not a student should be physically/emotionally harmed. In fact, in my opinion, a child should never be physically harmed, and some punishments might be emotional at the time for the child but they will usually get over it depending on the severity of the punishment.

There are many parents out there who just don't care. What then? We've seen what the current idea of raising a child has gotten us. Teens and 20somethings that think the world owes them an education, job, whatever they may desire. All because they have been coddled and no firm discipline. Kids have threatened to call Child Services if they are punished, because it works. Little Johnny set fire to the neighbors shed, got his butt smacked and they call it abuse. Parents should have the right to discipline their child, to a point, without being labeled a danger to the kid. If the parents won't, what do we do? Just keep telling them "No"? There are kids who act out repeatedly because they know the punishment is nothing. At some point, there has to a consequence stronger than sitting in the corner or losing playtime. Otherwise, well, look around.

My first year teaching, in Tennessee, paddling was allowed. I taught first grade and the thought of paddling one of my "darlings" was abhorrent to me.

That was a tough year in many ways, but one little boy really caused a lot of problems. He was extremely disruptive, mean-spirited, and deliberately destructive.

I tried all the ways I knew to help him...positive reinforcement (that was a laugh), intervention with specialists (nothing changed)....and everything I tried was a failure.

Finally the parents told me they WANTED him paddled. So I did it. I made him get the paddle from the next door teacher and wait for me in the hallway.

Everyone in the class knew what was going to happen. After about five minutes (to let myself calm down and to draw out the suspense), I went into the hall.

We had to have another teacher witness the paddling, to make sure it was done correctly and without harm. So I called the teacher out and I paddled the student. Three swats with the paddle. I wasn't gentle, it hurt, but I also didn't put all my strength into it. This was a six year old child, after all.

Afterwards, I went to the teacher's lounge and had a good cry. I hated doing that.

But you know what? It worked. For the rest of the year, my class behaved totally different. They respected me, that one child no longer misbehaved so spectacularly, and I was actually able to teach.

Now I work in a school district where we are not allowed to paddle. Discipline is a joke. The worst thing I can do to a child is give him or her silent lunch or make him walk laps during recess....it has very little efffect on behavior. Like the teacher mentioned in the OP, I too have had children laugh at me because they know my hands are tied.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
I bet that some of the advocates of spanking/beating/paddling students are people who spank(ed), beat and/or paddle their own kids.

Violence is a cycle that once it starts, it can't be stopped. Congratulations.

Actually no. I have 3 kids, 1 grown, 2 teens. I spanked each one maybe twice. From then on, they knew when Dad says No, HE MEANS NO. I'm sure that will be twisted in to my being a bad parent or I emotionally damaged them, [Twist away. I've seen the end product of parents just standing there, repeating " Don't do that" a dozen times. The kid just keeps on doing whatever they're doing, knowing the punishment isn't going to matter ].but I want my kids to grow up in the real world, where actions have consequences more dire than being grounded. No one is saying beat the kids. If you'll look at some of the responses, it would be used as the very last resort. I like how the "non spankers" have labeled us as abusive, bad parents, violent, just all around bad people. Just so ya know, I was physically and mentally abused as a child, so I know what abuse is and spanking your kid as a last resort is far, far from abuse.

reply to post by UberL33t


Good.
Time for them to feel some fear like we did back in the 70's.
A visit to the principles office actually meant something besides a parent teacher conference.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by UberL33t

 

Good.
Time for them to feel some fear like we did back in the 70's.
A visit to the principles office actually meant something besides a parent teacher conference.

edit on 26-4-2013 by grey580 because: (no reason given)

I don't think much has changed. Back in my school days [60-70s] getting paddled was a rite of passage into the "cool" kids clique; The malcontents, the questioners of authority, the outsiders, the nonconformists, the kids everyone wanted to be like, but didn't have the guts.

We didn't fear the paddle, it didn't really hurt that much! We just pretended it did so the vice principal could get off on his power trip. Even as little kids we knew how the system worked and saw completely thru the BS charade created by the administration and teachers.

Corporal punishment only worked on the scared and weak.

There is an esoteric reason for their doing this, its to try and lower frequency so they can gain the upper hand in the tug of war over this planet, thats what all the current events are, ritual sacrifice and trying to stamp out growing awareness, including threats of war. This ugly little twisted school assault concept is just one more attempt to entrench lower frequency, but people won't be so easily swayed. They may have all the power and money but the people are pretty good kids overall, and so they must feel pretty desperate to be wanting to assault kids in school.

reply to post by rival


I concur, if you are not punished for what your do and receive consequences for your actions how are you supposed to learn right from wrong? What better way than to set an example to others than to use a form of it in the class room.

Beating no, whacking maybe if done within reason, however if the parent does this in public it can lead to charges and intervention from CAS for disciplining your child. But if that same child is not disciplined and does not learn empathy or consequences of their actions then the parent was a bad parent?

Where does the line get drawn as to where discipline starts and beating and abuse begins, they (lawyers, CAS, courts) have made a mess of society with all these charges that have gone against a parent who is only trying to instill right and wrong in their child.

Eventhough I believe in spanking (happened to me and i'm fine) I rarely spank my kids. I have a rule about spanking they only get one if they put their life or the life of someone else in danger....like running in the road, telling his sister to stick her finger in a socket, things like that. So spankings are very rare in my home. My kids aren't perfect but they behave well enough most of the time without needed to spank them. I believe that parents and parents only should make that call on whether or not their child needs a spanking.

With the things that are getting kids in trouble nowadays I believe children would get paddled for the silliest of behaviors and i'm just not okay with that, not at all.

If one of my children was to ever get paddled at school i'd probably be spending my first night in jail for assault.

If a child is that disruptive then you take them out of the class but no one should ever allow someone to spank their child and get away with it. What a way to teach your children that they can't count on you to protect them from harm.

Soon I'll be starting my student teaching to finish off my degree. I have thought about how I would handle disruptive students in my classroom. One thing is for sure, paddling will not be a part of it. There is no excuse for abuse. From my training so far, I've found that classroom rules and standards need to be set at the beginning of the school year for what's acceptable and what is not. The students need to have a stake in how the classroom runs to have effective learning. Get them involved in setting the rules. Another big thing is modeling. It is up to the teacher to model appropriate behavior at ALL TIMES. The students will follow.

Attitude reflects leadership, poor attitude on the student's part is a breakdown in the leadership on the teacher's part. How instruction is delivered is also important. Teachers need to be creative in presenting the information to keep students engaged. I would combine direct instruction with collaborative learning (group learning). Perhaps it is how we are teaching these student which is contributing to the bad behavior. We have to turn the spark of learning into a blaze of knowledge.

I know there will be individual cases in which must be dealt with. That being the case, as time permits, you need to get down to why the student is being disruptive. Perhaps the student is bored, or is having problems understanding the lesson. Maybe they have been bullied and haven’t expressed that to anyone. Perhaps the student has an unidentified behavior problem or disability which needs to be addressed with accommodations. Bottom line, there is a barrier to them learning and it needs to be addressed. I don't think corporal punishment is appropriate to address these issues.

I believe that if the teacher is vested into the education of their students, they will provide a safe and positive environment for students to learn. I just don't see that by including paddling into the equation.

reply to post by Siberbat


I'm not trying to undermine your enthusiasm. We need positive, eager young minds in our field.

I, too, used to be so full of idealism.

Teaching has a way of changing that attitude, however. You get to deal with all the petty stuff that student teachers are rarely exposed to. You'll get to deal with parents who don't care and can be openly hostile.

I wish you all the best. Just be prepared for a surprise awakening.

reply to post by smyleegrl


It should be quite an experience. I have a feeling that dealing with the parents will be infinatly more difficult than the students. I still need to "cut my teeth", so I'm sure I'll get a good dose of reality pretty soon. Thanks for your insight Smyleegrl, I hope it goes smooth for me. lol.