Marion Co. (Florida) schools lift ban on paddling students

In a follow up to a thread posted in Sept. 2012...

Marion County school officials ponder return to paddling students

Marion Co. schools lift ban on paddling students

Ocala, FL -
Three years after banning paddling, the Marion County school board agreed Tuesday to let elementary school principals resume the practice to punish misbehaving students. Officials approved the measure, which has been banned since 2010.

According to the Ocala Star-Banner, paddling can only be used in elementary schools, and only if a parent gives a standing written approval once a year. In addition, the principal must receive verbal permission before paddling the child. And a student can be paddled just once a semester.

WFLA Source Article

If you ask me...it's about damn time! I as a parent would absolutely allow my child to receive a paddling if they got out of line. When I was in school they still paddled and I can tell you, just having the knowledge that this was a possible outcome if I got out of line was a definitive preventative to any misbehavior on my part.

WFLA posted this on their Facebook page and there were over 250 comments last I checked. The following comment was (what I felt) worthy to help get the discussion going on ATS. But feel free to visit WFLA's Facebook page and read more.

Wow! What a controversial topic this has proven to be!

I'm an educator. Personally, I would like to see a form of discipline used in school that actually carried some weight. Writing "Johnny was bad," on a slip of paper is ineffective for children who already lack respect for authority. For them, a referral is an opportunity to miss class and do nothing. Many of their friends are behavior problems, too. That means they get to sit and wait in the front office together missing class time. There are students who actually taunt their teachers saying, "I can hit you and kick you, but if you do that to me, you'll get fired!"

There's a clear lack of respect here. It becomes impossible to conduct class or engage students in learning when punishment is not in the hands of the authority.

Lots if people are saying it's the parents' job to discipline, and I agree with the assertion in theory, but this assumes that the parent even cares about the child's behavior or takes an interest in the child's education. Moreover, the parent is not present in the classroom and if the teacher is not viewed as a disciplinarian, there will be no respect associated with his/her position.

I think the children should be forced to do intense physical labor that contributes to their communities rather than serve OSS or ISS. If they refuse to do this, they can be placed in juvenile penitentiaries for the equivalent number if days. They get a choice: classroom, hard physical work, or jail.

Make punishments concrete and undesirable. We are soft on kids and they are growing up entitled and ungrateful. Look at the difference between people aged 55+ and people under 35 and consider the difference in work ethic and conscientiousness.

No paddling? Fine. But enforce real consequences!

So what say you ATS...good idea or horrible idea to bring this form of punishment back into the schools?

With the sheer list of stupid School Principal's decisions lately this is a very bad thing.

Little Johnny make a gun shaped pizza -- Gets paddled
Sarah wears a T-shirt that says "Honey Boo Boo is a terrorist" -- Gets spanked.
Peter says The President is a wanker -- Gets Spanked.


No! Just No! Not with the caliber of Principals. ATS has thread after thread of stupid school decisions. Just No!

P

reply to post by UberL33t

I love the idea in principle and Missouri is among the states where it's legal ...if very rarely actually done in modern times. The practice vs. principle comes in with discretion and judgement for how much is meaningful and not just a joke ...yet how much is too much? It'll be something to watch.

I think that when people were doing this in schools on a regular basis, way back when, practice probably tended to make the balance that they need a fairly basic thing to maintain. When it's a brand new "toy" to use or something no one is experienced with? Well.. I do worry enough to at least want to hear how it goes.

Will administrators know and understand, for instance, the most important lesson I believe an adult can carry on corporal punishment? (as a parent who avoided the 'spare the rod' dilemma myself a time or two). Never, ever discipline in anger. That's how control issues get fuzzy and injury happens from over-enthusiasm. I.E..... If the kid tells the principle "Thank you sir, may I have another??" a few times ...will he keep his professional cool?

I'm pro spanking, BUT I want to be the one to spank my child if I feel she/he needs it. If my kid is being that bad, call me. I don't trust anyone else (other than maybe my hubby or one of our mothers) to make that judgment. If my kid is really deserving of it, I don't mind stopping what I'm doing to make sure the issue is put to rest. I've actually got a personal list of rules when it comes to spanking, and I want it followed. That's too much power to hand someone over the most valuable thing you'll ever have. I don't mind the suggestion from a school, but I make the final decision. simple as that.

Paddling has it's place in school. But there needs to be solid barriers to prevent the abuse I endured in school. A school year lasts 180 days. In the 6th grade I got paddled 100 times. One nearly every day. I got them when school started because the principal would say "You're going to do something to deserve it so let's go ahead and get it out of the way." Then they put me in a closet in the office and left me there until school ended. I spent at least half of the 6th grade either being paddled or in that closet.

What happened to me must NEVER happen to anyone else, EVER. But as long as no kids are being beaten for un then I am ok with it.

A good swat on the ass...ok.

Paddling? Not sure.

But a good reminder is no problem. We had them when I was a kid. Ruler across the knuckles etc. No harm done.

You can almost track the decline of respect for teachers and kid's grades with the banning of a good swat.

Peace

I don't allow any paddling whatsoever, because it is abused and misused like 50% of the time, and when kids didn't actually do anything warranting that much of a punishment...

Today's school administrators are even stupider than they were in the 60's and 70's, and what this usually means is that they don't have the real brains to deal with kids in the first place...

When working with kids it takes people who have the smarts to deal with things in a smarter and understanding way, rather than a forceful and punishing way..

If you aren't emotionally smart enough to teach kids without using force and physical punishment to do so, then you shouldn't be doing it in the first damn place.

Granted, if you happen to have a little chucky in the class who likes to use sewing needles to greet the girls with, then sure, an extra whack might be needed... But then, if there are students doing such bad things, then they have problems far more serious than any paddling will cure....

its about time

I got paddled many many times in school up to my 12th grade year

our high school would bring you in front of class and get 10 licks with the paddle in front of everyone... you learned your lesson.

and I did, and I knew when I screwed up big time. If I smarted off I was immediately apologizing for losing my cool to avoid standing in front of classroom getting paddled.

I did get in 2 fights, 1 was with a weapon I had a butterfly knife and pulled it when 2 guys tried to jump me I told them 1 at a time I'd put it up. Well the 2nd guy backs off and I put the knife away and started fighting 1 on 1 course I got 15 licks for that in the principals office the other guy got 10 and my butterfly knife was taken and my dad had to come to school to pick the knife up before i could get it back.

Course back then we were allowed to bring guns to school, which most people are like WTF?!?

ill explain, in deep south GA. back in late 80's early 90's you were allowed to bring a shotgun or rifle to school as long as you had a gun rack or a gun lock in the vehicle. You also had to bring a copy of your hunting license to the office and a letter from your parents as well as hunter safety course proof. All hunters who brought their guns for after school hunting trips with the hunt club also had to give copies of their car keys to the office and hunters were not allowed to go back to their vehicles during the day only when school had completed.

I only brought a 20 gauge to school my 11th grade year, cause after school we'd all go dove hunting in the school field. And we'd have an amazing cookout.


School was much better back then and paddling was a good thing.

Course my first 2 years of highschool our school had a smoking section for students in 1988/1989, It was funky going from elementary school to highschool and seeing teachers and students sharing the smoking section.
They banned student smoking on campus in my 10th grade year, and my school highschool was 8th through 12th. We didn't have middle school we had elementary which was 3rd through 7th. And the way the student smoking section worked is you also had to have a letter from parents acknowledging you smoked.

but in 1991 they banned that


I loved highschool soooo much freedom and fun, the paddlings hurt but noone acted out, never had trouble even with students having guns and we had a hunt club on campus and our yearbook had them all lined up with deer heads, gator tails, rabbits, squirrels and dove They'd call it the critter collection, and it was good eatin' during hunting season if the hunt club was successful they'd bring the meat in for school lunches, and we'd have deer steak, gator tail, rabbit stew and such for school lunch... those were rare but amazing.

Originally posted by Robonakka
Paddling has it's place in school. But there needs to be solid barriers to prevent the abuse I endured in school. A school year lasts 180 days. In the 6th grade I got paddled 100 times. One nearly every day. I got them when school started because the principal would say "You're going to do something to deserve it so let's go ahead and get it out of the way." Then they put me in a closet in the office and left me there until school ended. I spent at least half of the 6th grade either being paddled or in that closet.

What happened to me must NEVER happen to anyone else, EVER. But as long as no kids are being beaten for un then I am ok with it.

And that is exactly why I say I'd want them to call me instead. It has it's place, but I just don't trust anyone outside of who cares for my kids the most to make that final call. It can and has been abused. My husband had that same issue with his school. I'd say any school who has that power should at the very least be obligated to notify a parent before it happens. I personally would go a step further and be the one to show up to do it (if I felt it was deserved). I would want my kid to know that the teachers have the power to influence me into it so they show respect and know the possible consequences, but if someone else has that option I fear it could become their go-to punishment (like some schools tend to make it)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I would agree with the anger aspect. I, in my whole elementary school life experienced one kid get a paddling. Back then...they did it right in the class for all to see. I can't remember what the kid did but it was the teacher he pissed off. She called the principal and he came with another lady (a witness I suppose). The teacher was present, along with the principal, the lady and the entire class (who were supposed to mind our own business...but "yeah right"). The kid received three whacks whimpered a little bit and it was done.

However as mentioned...it was more than enough of an affect on me. I don't recall seeing any emotion from the principal when he paddled the kid...it was just whack whack whack and he said to the kid something like "let's not have to do this again".

I would think that if there was a method of keeping an unbiased punish-er (for lack of a better term) and a witness then this could perhaps hinder the "anger" aspect or any abuse as it were, from coming into play.

Modern times someone says??

Jeez, I must be pre-historic. If anyone has any questions about dinosaurs or ancient civilizations
feel free to ask.

In my day you had choices....suspension, several days of study hall, or three "licks" with a paddle.
(usually delivered by the "vice" principal or a coach). I always took the licks, and quite often regretted
it.

We protect our children so completely in these modern times that punishment for wrong is seen as
abuse. And yet, let that child grow up and do wrong and he is subject to a much harsher system
that can and will abuse him, taze him, shoot him, cuff him, incarcerate him and even sometimes
outright kill and take his life away completely...

"The rod" as the saying goes should be doled out fairly and justly all the way thru life. We
human have to learn from an early age of the consequences of bad decisions....

The problem with paddeling in school is it is so open to abuse. Also it does not seem to work as most people who are paddled seem to be paddled many times never stopping them from doing something wrong. Paddle your kids at home that is where it should begin and end.

I think it's a good Idea, and I also think it should be done by a third party, not the teacher..

My senior year....it was the wood shop teacher...he had arms like a weight lifter, and man did it sting, I still remember rubbing my butt for a couple hours after

reply to post by UberL33t

Lots if people are saying it's the parents' job to discipline, and I agree with the assertion in theory, but this assumes that the parent even cares about the child's behavior or takes an interest in the child's education.

Parents need to pay attention to their children.

Through law or public social accountability we need to fix the root problem. Once you solve the above everything else will fix itself.

Yes lets give a child a reason for wanting to bring a gun to school and shoot their teacher for embarrassing them in front of their friends.

Its 2013, if a 19 year old could take part in a bombing of his own accord, what is to stop a younger child from doing something horrible?

This is just plain stupidity.

Wow...so many good responses. All are respectful too, which I really appreciate reading. Good thread.

Personally, I agree with paddling. I am 41 and can still remember Mr Sailor, my elementary principal mainly because of that threat. He was seen as THE authority of the school and we ALL respected that position. For some it was only because of the threat of corporal punishment.

Can it be abused? Of course. Just like so many other things. This is where the school board and parents come in and need to be involved. There are so many ways to prevent it from being abused, that I really don't think there is a valid reason to NOT use it.

I hate hearing these horrible stories of abuse, and I am sorry for the posters here that went through it. Must have been a sick puppy that did those things to you. Even this past week, I saw a story about a child being locked in a closet at school. I believe that as with everything in life, there needs to be clear boundaries and safety checks. I worked with kids that were high risk and we had to restrain all the time. No one was ever alone with a child and if we got angry we had to remove ourselves. There are already State programs in place that can easily be applied to any form of corporal punishment.

I agree that parents need to punish their children, but to say that they should do it in place of a teacher or administrator just doesn't work. It is all about respect, having clear rules and consequences and just isn't present in most schools. Kids literally laugh at authority. The ones who do this don't have respect for their parents either and there is a reason for it. To think they are going to get it at home is just wishfull thinking. I know first hand how screwed up so many kids lives are, and are really just yearning to have those limits put in place for them, and for someone to show they care.

Originally posted by cconn487
Yes lets give a child a reason for wanting to bring a gun to school and shoot their teacher for embarrassing them in front of their friends.

Its 2013, if a 19 year old could take part in a bombing of his own accord, what is to stop a younger child from doing something horrible?

This is just plain stupidity.

Have any of the recent school shootings been caused by the people involved being paddled?

If people are going to do acts of violence, it's not because they were taught that there are consequences to actions. While I think it is the parents responsibility to discipline their children, if they're not getting the discipline at home, the school seems the next best opportunity.

I'd be homeschooling there and raising cain until the whole area had a grass roots citizen counsel first level of government and the entire state employee elected ones were shaking in their booties. Non violent, assertive/non aggressive, growing up citizens who can handle problem solving and don't react to any world events, see through them and create their own eutopia.

And they don't paddle kids there.

This has the potential to get way out of line. When I was in school, [ early 80's ] we had teachers that were paddle happy as all hell. Almost anything got you a swat and I'm talking a 2 handed swing meant to lift you off the ground. Any other time, hitting someone with a heavy board would get you an assault charge, but somehow, it's ok to hit a kid hard enough to bruise? This needs to be heavily monitored, more than one teacher present, with a very, very limited list of infractions you can be paddled for. Used in the right way, this could actually be a good idea, but too many teachers have abused it in the past.

reply to post by UberL33t


While I agree Paddling should be done.... I do not feel or condone another individual doing what the parents should be doing.

So to that, if a Principle paddled my child... I would touch the principle the same way. I would too ^_^ with a smile on my face~

Now, if that principle called me and told me the situation... I would MARCH my happy arse into that school and paddle my child myself infront of the principle as well as reprimand her. But nay the other way around would incite anger and I would prolly knock that principle or nun out, whatever the case may be.

Just a father's opinion though, so take it for what it's worth.