Lest We Forget ...

A reminder to all that war is a folly.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

There is much talk at the moment.

I don't believe there is enough insight or sympathy, as to the true emotional and physical trauma the victims of being on the sh!t end of the stick endure.

Thoughts ... not only for ANZACS on this day ( see the ode ) but all those currently scared out of their minds about family in the zone.

Chins up and raise a glass !

reply to post by Timely


S&F to you. War has never solved a problem, but always created more wounds. More hatred and more "them vs. us" mentality. Yet since we all are pawns of a "system" that has a different agenda than us normal folks. It will be a while before we stop this insanity.

reply to post by Guenter


Nicely put !

Awareness is the way forward. The question is ... Why? Should it be an issue?

Originally posted by Guenter
reply to post by Timely

 

S&F to you. War has never solved a problem, but always created more wounds. More hatred and more "them vs. us" mentality. Yet since we all are pawns of a "system" that has a different agenda than us normal folks. It will be a while before we stop this insanity.

It really is in our nature to war with each other. Look at children playing. If one child takes from another how do they get it back? They take it by force. No different than two packs of wolves, eventually one side will want power over the other.

War has never solved a problem

reply to post by Guenter


Warning graphic images



Warning graphic images



Warning graphic images



No never solved a thing did it.
The survivors were pretty grateful though

Cody

reply to post by cody599


No id didn't. One war cause the seeds of hate and atrocities for the next one that followed. Id specific events had not happened before then the events your videos depicts would not have happened as a follow up of the 1st atrocities. All that wars produce is more hate and desire for revenge. This then cause 20 or some years later an event that is worse than the one we stopped with the 1st. perpetuation of hate and destruction. And since one side feels wronged from before they will react with more brutality the next time around. Nothing gained.

reply to post by Guenter


So you're saying we sit idly by and allow genocide to happen ?
Or do we go in and put a stop to it ?

Unfortunately that requires our armed forces and war,

Cody

reply to post by cody599


Who is "WE"? Who appoints anyone as the policeman of the world? Just look at Syria. If Assad is such a bad guy, why are not all countries against him? Who decides that this man is a dictator or legit state of head? And what good has it done to end the holocaust in WW2 just to see a Israel do the same to the Palestinians? We had the allies hang the Nazis and yet the same "righteous" USA still calls General Custer a Hero. So which genocide is worth stopping and which is worth letting slip by unnoticed? Have all those wars not been means to obtain control for one thing or another? Natural resources, strategic positions etc. In the end follow the money after all the tears stopped and listen top those laughing and counting their $$$

reply to post by Guenter


I would like to know what you would suggest as a means of ending the hatred the war and everything that it entails.

I do not disagree with what you stated. But as many threaders share this same view. What solution is there?

Most humby~

sulaw

reply to post by Guenter


Good answer

In my case we is my conscience

If Assad is such a bad guy, why are not all countries against him? Because those that support him are also dictatorships.

And what good has it done to end the holocaust in WW2 ? I'm sorry are you serious ?

just to see a Israel do the same to the Palestinians?

I have 1 thumb thanks to a roadside bomb courtesy of the Palestinians, I served in the IDF (I'm not Jewish and hold no malice towards the Palestinian people) I would suggest you live there before judging.

We had the allies hang the Nazis and yet the same "righteous" USA still calls General Custer a Hero.

Rightly so
about the Nazis. I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to answer the general Custer remark, but I'm sure one of our American cousins will do so.

So which genocide is worth stopping and which is worth letting slip by unnoticed?

For me ? I can only answer for myself all genocide.

Have all those wars not been means to obtain control for one thing or another? Natural resources, strategic positions etc ?

Of course governments fight for gain, soldiers fight for beliefs.

In the end follow the money after all the tears stopped . The tears never stop. That doesn't mean they aren't worth fighting for.

Cody

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by Guenter

 

I would like to know what you would suggest as a means of ending the hatred the war and everything that it entails.

Well most of us say follow the $$$. And war is after all a profit for a few. Sure what I am to say now will get me hate-mail pretty much and quick. But the problem is in the system of our economics, mostly the capitalistic system. Since I am in the middle of writing my book on the "progress" of civilization, one of the topics I am dealing and working with is the transition from tribal to civilization. And true war as we know it today or since 1,000's of years is a product of civilization. We have to get this into our heads that there is a difference between a dispute, a small border skirmish, a personal argument going bad where one ends up dead, and the true organization of war as we know it, - the conquest and keeping of territory and resources.
Civilization stands out with the invention of organized religion, not natural spirituality! Just with our present us vs. them rhetoric, meaning "US" good Christians vs. "Them" bad Muslims ...
What makes our modern civilization so war like is after all capitalism. And especially the creation of Multinational corporations. And they are making the $$$. They crash the market, move factories across the globe etc. And if one national leaders says: "Not with me..." then he is a dictator or what ever. Private business is good, but it is also bad. And it's the "Size" of the business that makes it good or bad. The small Mom & Pop store serving sandwiches and espresso is not the problem. It's the big corporation as "Prison for profits.." "Blackwater, PMC" and other things. The Mafia is after all also a "Pvt company". And when you then have these pvt corporation influencing governments, plus churches brainwashing their followers into backing this or that agenda, then you have the right condition for a new and senseless war.
We would have to sit down and re-define TRADE. Trade originally was the exchange of goods lacking and/or in abundance with the opposite side of the trade. And if some country does not want to sell us oil, then maybe its time to really look at different ways how to manage our energy needs. Instead of changing the political scene, change regimes and so forth. The common citizen is made to believe that this or that conflict is to fight "evil" while behind the scene it is to get control over resources.
Remove the profit thinking and foremost remove the religious brainwashing. Do you think that the wars fought for god and country were really for religion? or to defend against the infidels or what ever? The crusades were for the control of the Asian trade routes. Only the lil' smuck in uniform cried for god and country and actually "believed" it. The merchants in Europe knew exactly why they fought in the holy land against the Muslims, to get their trade routes back so they would not have to pay some "Tax". And in order to make someone fight and physically kill a human, you have to demonize him. So then you end up with the filthy JEW, the Japanese RAT and all this stuff. We are after all a naked ape if you want to accept it or not. The fact is a bird cannot live in the water at 1,000ft depths and neither can a shark fly at 10,000ft altitude like an eagle. And this humbleness to understand who we are as a species, is needed and is needed to be reflected on in the nuts and bolts dealings of here and now.
And in terms of private ownership:
We are a communal people! We feel best in small groups up to 200 people or about. That's why those small 50-200 people Mom&Pop companies are so successful! And if I can alone man a hot dog stand down town and need no help, the moment I need an extra hand I would have to "Share" the profits. Not just pay a "wage" of x-$$$/hr. That's why such small family businesses are doing so well. Because their wage incentive is the common goal. So they are not counting x-$$/hr but they counting their success that they have all paid for. And this success is not always clean cut 5-10$/hr or what ever. So then for big companies make them PUBLIC owned. Where WE the people are the share holders. So have a NATIONAL oil company that WE the people control, not some Billionaire thugs. And once this is achieved on a level playing field, I wonder how many people still would want to pay taxes for planes and missiles? Or keep the army down to a bare minimum to defend reall some nut-case who would dare to physically attack.
Revolutions die quickly on a full belly a happy BBQ and a good wine in ones hands.

reply to post by Guenter


I don't disagree with the sentimentality of the OP
In fact I applaud it

My question is I guess

If you are in a position to defend your kids/wife/girlfriend/mum/dad

Would you be prepared to start a war (even if it's inadvertently) and would you follow it through ?

Cody

reply to post by Guenter

We are after all a naked ape if you want to accept it or not.

I disagree.... I don't have a hairy back but my chest is pretty hairy..... So I'm a half naked ape....

I read it all. I don't know when your book will be complete or if it will be available on E-Books or whatever have you. But when it comes out please don't forget me and let me know. I would appreciate the read. I agree with everything you've stated in response to my question.

Only thing, I think the people do know, bah.... I should say there a few good men out there that understand the scenerio your pointing out. But again.

The merchants in Europe knew exactly why they fought in the holy land against the Muslims, to get their trade routes back so they would not have to pay some "Tax".

And many American's realize that the "Tax" is the problem.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by Guenter

 

I don't disagree with the sentimentality of the OP
In fact I applaud it

My question is I guess

If you are in a position to defend your kids/wife/girlfriend/mum/dad

Would you be prepared to start a war (even if it's inadvertently) and would you follow it through ?

Cody

To questions like this it always depends on the situation. Most hypothetical scenarios never develop. When we read for example the crime stories of true criminals, hardly even the best crime fiction writers come close to the ingenuity of how those guys committed their acts. For this reason i have long abandoned a clear yes and no answer to such questions. Because "defending wife and kids" is for me automatically more a scenario of beating the crap out of the intruder on my property than a scenario for a war. I make a clear distinction between a personal defense, even hypothetical taking on the local drug lords and kill 300 of them, then actually having to cross the national frontier to invade another country. The MSM loves calling everything a "war", which for most situations it is not. A lot of our thinking is shaped how we were raised. Not just from our parents, but school, church and national environment. What media did we get exposed to and so forth. Mind you i was in my teens someone you could call pretty right wing. And it took me decades to become the person who am I now. I had to chip away layer by layer of false thinking and indoctrination.
The problem of civilization, and especially our modern lives is handicapped with too much information of which we have a hard time sifting through to get the bare facts. While in the old days people had no information except what the church told them. As an old saying goes: The emperor keeps his subjects poor and the church keeps them dumb. Now in modern times we have to add the international bank cartels to this scenario. That's why i say, follow the $$$.
We have reached a point where the actual $$$ is worth more than anything else, also we can't eat it, drink it or build bridges with it. Money originally was an invention to keep accounting. I often contemplate if it would not be better we all go back on ration cards. At least then the value could not fluctuate, since if the coupon is for 1 Gallon of milk then it is 1 Gall today tomorrow and all times as long as it says 1 gall. And since it is the banks, the defense contractors and so forth who end up making the $$$, I can't really think of a hypothetical scenario to go to war to defend my family.

Originally posted by Guenter
reply to post by Timely

 

S&F to you. War has never solved a problem, but always created more wounds. More hatred and more "them vs. us" mentality. Yet since we all are pawns of a "system" that has a different agenda than us normal folks. It will be a while before we stop this insanity.

War has solved a problem every time its been undertaken. This is the one consistency about war, something always is resolved.

As to the OP I would say that yes, war is often glamorized without people understanding not only the immediate horrific impacts but also the long-term consequences. Its a shame more people who advocate for it do not understand how profoundly terrible it actually is.

reply to post by sulaw


Well with the "naked Ape" i mean to not go beyond what we are meant to me. With what i said about a fish cant fly and a pig can't dive to 1,000ft. And as much we come up with new ways to feed ourselves, in the end we all still will depend on clean water and air. And when i say "Naked ape" I mean don't destroy your own nature. And especially not for profit alone.
Concerning "TAX".: well the way our taxes are today they are still absolute stupid. Most of the financial system that we have in place now reminds me of lil' kids playing with 10,000 monopoly bills for a lemonade in their make believe store. Only for the kids it's a game and they play it for an hour, we adults seem to take this so damn serious that we even kill and jump off buildings if this money "crashes". taxes can be paid in services. Taxes can be a fixed set, but for ALL. Taxes can also be paid individually. If I want 100% of my taxes to go for cancer research then truly GIVE 100% to it. Maybe if we pay our taxes according to what we need, maybe the military would be soon out of money. Communal, equal and fair. There are many "communes" most prominent the Amish for example who have their own way of have fair distribution of wealth and resources. Maybe look around at all corners of the world and learn from people.
Make money again a token tool of accounting, rather an absolute power.

reply to post by Guenter


The half hairy ape comment was just a joke.... I kid, I kid~ I understood the analogies just fine.

For this reason i have long abandoned a clear yes and no answer to such questions. Because "defending wife and kids" is for me automatically more a scenario of beating the crap out of the intruder on my property than a scenario for a war.

I couldn't agree more.

Mind you i was in my teens someone you could call pretty right wing. And it took me decades to become the person who am I now. I had to chip away layer by layer of false thinking and indoctrination.

Sounds a lot like myself

I can't really think of a hypothetical scenario to go to war to defend my family.

Me neither, though as quoted above... The intruder would have a dire price to pay for coming into my house uninvited.

I can't imagine going overseas nor could I find a justified reason to. I do come from a long line of Military and my father strictly forbid me from joining.

At my age of 30yrs old, and the chiping away of that indocterination, I understand why my father stated what he did.

So i'll continue my daily grind and if and when something does happen. I'll be defending my family and not overseas on someone elses idea's of war.

No offense to any troops out there, I support the soldiers, alas the reason why they send you are beyond me. So thank you for you doing what you do but I do not accept the reason's why TPTB do what they do.

I thought I’d write this to briefly try explain the significance of ANZAC day to Aussies and our mates across the ditch the Kiwis that the OP refers to, and also to thank all our service men and women for their sacrifice.

April 25th marks the anniversary of the first major military action fought by the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) during the First World War. This day has become the day on which Australians and New Zealanders remember those who served and who made the ultimate sacrifice, not just in WWI, but in all wars. In the great Australian tradition of idolising heroes who are born of noble failure (such as the infamous Ned Kelly and the Eureka rebels), so too do we commemorate an exhausting, deadly military defeat.

The Australian and New Zealand forces landed on a beach south of Ari Burnu in Turkey (ANZAC Cove) before rugged hills, ridges and steep gullies, on 25th April 1915, with the mission of laying siege to Constantinople (Istanbul) and allowing safe passage through the Dardanelles Straight for the allied fleet. It was only shortly after the landing that high command let it be known that an error had been made and the landing should have been made on Brighton Beach.

Tragically, due to the haphazard leadership and poor strategic planning from the British Command, several thousand allied soldiers landed on exposed steep cliffs under fierce fire from the Ottoman Turkish defenders lead by Mustafa Kemal.

What followed was a siege that lasted for eight months, as both sides dug in and exchanged heavy fire. The odds against the ANZACs were tremendous, but they held on repelling many Turkish counterattacks in conditions of hardship that tested even the hardiest. Finally, on the 19th and 20th December 1915, the allied forces retreated under the cover of night. Over 8,000 Australian and 2,700 New Zealand soldiers had been killed. By the time the campaign ended, over 120,000 men had died – more than 80,000 Turkish and 44,000 British and French soldiers.

In the history of the Great War, the Gallipoli campaign made no large mark. Although the Gallipoli campaign failed in its military objectives, the Australian and New Zealand actions during the campaign left us all a powerful legacy. The creation of what became known as the ANZAC spirit – Courage, mateship, humour and a determination against the odds. The ANZAC legend has defined our national identities and helped forged an eternal bond between both nations.
Lest We Forget

Images of Gallipoli
More info

Originally posted by cody599

War has never solved a problem

reply to post by Guenter

 

Warning graphic images

Warning graphic images

Warning graphic images

No never solved a thing did it.
The survivors were pretty grateful though

Cody

Missed the genocide in Sudan/Somalia, and the ongoing concentration camp that is Palestine.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by Guenter

 

So you're saying we sit idly by and allow genocide to happen ?
Or do we go in and put a stop to it ?

Unfortunately that requires our armed forces and war,

Cody

Like it or not, thats exactly what our governments are doing, selective choosing, ignoring or sponsoring genocide where its suits the globalist agenda.

For people like us that do not differentiate, but use the same rule of fairness and equality for all, its difficult to fathom and understand why ourgovernments do what they do....many times its sickening.

But what is a handful of "righteous" people able to do about it? bugger all in honesty.

Genocide and war in general is wrong, dont give a "F" what race/religion or political leaning you are. As humanity we all have a right to be free and pursue a better life.

One question that I beleive should still be raised today is "Why the victors of WW2 were never brought to account for the genocides they took part in against the enemy at the time?"

The bombing of Dresden being a major one. That was a massacre of an entire city not a military target at all.

Lest we Forget, lest we actually learn from the past mistakes one day too.

Thank You to all posters in this thread.
I have starred you all for your well thought out and very accurate responses.

Today is for contemplation and remembrance.

I wish our world leaders would remember the horrors of war and contemplate ways of
becoming more neighbourly.

The world is a much smaller place today, due mainly to the internet.
We are all in the same sandpit, we must learn to share and get along.

To over-simplify things ... we the worlds' nations, must re-do kindergarten 101, with a new group of friendly,yet firm - playground monitors.

We must re-learn the meaning of sharing and keeping our hands to ourselves.

War has solved issues - at great human cost. We need to stop the issues becoming so great.


Lest we forget.