Family ripped from their home at gunpoint; Police storm the property looking for terrorists

Yeah just take it all in stride guys, no biggie, let em break down
doors, point guns at your family, excuse the loss of rights, its
only for your own good, they rarely if ever make mistakes, i mean
its not like just two weeks ago an angry officer held a teenager
at gun point in a mcdonalds drive through because he thought
the drive through was moving too slow, or the one a few months back
that told a teenager he had no right other than the ones the
officer decided, or the man in a wheel chair armed with a
writing pen who was shot because two officers felt "threatened"
by him...... or the women who was shot to death because
the DEA got the wrong address and she thought someone was
breaking into her home and fired at officers who are not
required to knock and announce themselves anymore, or the
folks who got shot up because of another recent manhunt.......

Nah they should just make their own rules, they work so very
hard to ensure we maintain our rights that i feel perfectly ok
with them just going off willy nilly and doing as they please
because they BELIEVE a situation dictates said action, to
heck with the rules, rights who needs rights when we have
fine upstanding people looking out for us, heck if history has
taught us anything at all its that we can and should always
trust the government and law enforcement to do things
any way they please, gosh why did we even come up with
all this "Rights BS" to begin with, we never needed it.

reply to post by bloodreviara


Well said!

If the Police has an impeccable record and openly admitted their mistakes, perhaps the public would be more trusting but the list of Police wrongs is pretty damn long.

P

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

 

A very emotive phrase "Ripped from their home at gunpoint "

These officers were looking for armed terrorists, who might be prepared to shoot and bomb their way out of the situation.

The householders treatment may appear harsh, but I guess the officers can't afford to pussyfoot around, in this situation. Surely a small price to pay for the freedom Americans
prize ?

They were getting the householders out of harms way too, in the event of a shoot out ?

What freedoms are you talking about? The ones the cops are stepping on?

Originally posted by kimish
Playing devils advocate, These men and women were looking for a killer. He could have killed more. There may have been more involved with him that the officers didn't know of.

When they had the people coming out of their houses with their hands up, they didn't know who these people were. They were looking out for themselves as well. Some of these people may have been terrorist or disgruntled or all jacked up on God knows what ready to squeeze a trigger into some pigs head. We simply don't know. Erring on the side of caution is only the intelligent thing to do. No matter how 'mean' it looks.

Try to look at it from both sides of the fence.

edit on 23-4-2013 by kimish because: (no reason given)

Throughout history there is always someone trying to kill others. Everyday there are murders,rapes,stabbings, etc. You don't see the cops, military doing this for every crime. When was the last time you seen house to house search for a drive by shooting? They all need to be sued for such a blatant disregard for those citizens rights.This is nothing more than a justification for taking away more of our natural rights.

Damn if I heard banging on my door, first thing im going for is my Gun, unfortunetly, id probably be shot for thinking I was getting robbed. They better be yelling Police very loud, and NOT trying some covert entry into a suburban house. I understand they are looking for terror suspects, and have to do a job, but god I hope they announced they were Police, Scary

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

was it really necessary to go door to door parading people out of their homes, AT GUNPOINT?

Apparently not, check your last point. The suspect wasn't even in their search zones, so all of that was (in the end), for nothing, as it was a citizen tip that helped them find the suspect. Necessary isn't really the question to ask here. Was it proper? That is the question begging to be answered, and answered well.

Yes, the suspect was believed to be armed and dangerous, but did these cops have the authority to conduct these searches?

Actually, they did. There is a public safety exclusion to the Fourth Amendment that does allow for searches without warrants. However, I think you'll find these weren't very thorough searches, in that they were looking for a person or persons, not searching every container, etc. for contraband or something illegal.

Was Martial Law officially declared? I remember the city being on lock down, but never heard any reports of Martial Law in place.

No, they did not "declare" martial law, though in effect, that is pretty much what happened. It was martial law in practice, absolutely no real distinction here...businesses closed, people in their homes, nobody out without papers, etc.

These unwarranted searches didn't even lead them to the suspect, some observant citizen outside of their search zone did.

Which really shows that this approach DIDN'T WORK.... Ultimately, he was apprehended the way most are, from tips. If anything, it may have made it impossible for the suspect to travel out of the area though, but that is a large expenditure for such a thing. Still, I think the public bloodlust for justice after such incidents will outweigh their concern for their rights being stomped on.

reply to post by kimish

Unfortunately, many, many, many people already feel helpless and hopeless so they've already counted themselves out. It's like playing a game of red rover and half the people leave and are going to play on the swings instead.

A population with their basic daily needs met, and modest comforts will never revolt. It's as simple as that. Which is actually a good thing, because it mandates the ruling powers to ensure that no matter what happens, at least THIS level is maintained. Why do you think the government is so concerned about the unemployment rate? Because people who have nothing to lose, are dangerous indeed.

All is not lost. We still have some power, with public opinion, and we do (even though most fail to realize it) have the ability to vote for someone who isn't a Democrat or Republican....just that most are too lazy to do the research and vote for a candidate who actually mirrors what they'd do, versus some abstract party line. THIS is the true revolt people should be pushing...the destruction of the power of these parties, giving us a choice between A, B, and C, instead of between A and A...thus ensuring A comes to pass.

reply to post by buster2010

What freedoms are you talking about? The ones the cops are stepping on?

The freedom guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment, the Right to Privacy. Specifically:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

When the law is broken by those who enforce it...then there is no law

...there is tyranny

You know, with today's technology, since they found him with infrared, could they not have called each house and verified how many were in there and compare it to heat sigs from the copters? it was not a large area. I know that they do it looking for drug operations and dealers/etc before busts so why not here. It would have been faster. It is how they found him in the end after the tip.

Personally, I would have been arrested for not allowing them in my home, If for nothing else to give them the finger. If I tell you no one is in here, and I answer the door with a shotgun, I think you can trust me.

reply to post by esdad71


You wouldn't have been arrested. You could have refused the search. In most cases, they simply moved on, unless they had reason to be suspicious, then they'd search without your permission. At worst, they would have done the same, usher you out, search, then moved on. I doubt they arrested anyone if they came up empty in the search.

A lawyer will tell you to ALWAYS refuse the search, because then, if they search, you then have grounds for saying your rights were violated, but really, in this case, you can forget about winning that case.

Also, even with a warrant, they still can only search for the items or persons in the warrant. Anything else they find, not an issue (though they could get another warrant and come back). They'd be hard pressed to convince a judge though, that your bag of weeds posed a threat to the public safety, so you'd be ok there.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

 

A very emotive phrase "Ripped from their home at gunpoint "

These officers were looking for armed terrorists, who might be prepared to shoot and bomb their way out of the situation.

The householders treatment may appear harsh, but I guess the officers can't afford to pussyfoot around, in this situation. Surely a small price to pay for the freedom Americans
prize ?

They were getting the householders out of harms way too, in the event of a shoot out ?

I absolutely understand that, and yes, the situation did call for extreme measures, but again, I don't remember hearing anything about Martial Law being officially declared. If these cops were not operating under martial law, they had no right to search this house, let alone hold the family at gunpoint.

Just because it's a state of emergency doesn't mean our constitutional rights become nullified.

reply to post by Gazrok


I don't have much faith in the democratic process; aside from countless rumors of vote fraud, whoever we elect simply whores his or her power out to the highest bidder; congress is bought and sold, and the presidency is no different.

There is no quick solution to our current amassing problems; it took over half a century for us to reach this point, it will take just as long, if not longer, for us to recover. Slow erosion can only be countered by slow progression. I can only pray that after the current ruling generation dies out, the next ruling generation won't be so easily corrupted.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


History would prove you wrong (in most cases, though right in others)...the most drastic changes have been brought about by swift and sudden actions. Can you imagine a modern election in which the President, House, and Senate were all controlled by folks who were neither Democrats or Republicans? It is possible in one election...not likely...but possible.

Good thing was was Boston. There still many other parts of this country where not only will the residents not cower and submit, but LE will not seek to run roughshod.

Ironic that a birthplace of our Revolution is now a milk-toast fraidy-cat haven.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by guymontag

 

Respectfully, are these not " Exigent circumstances " ( ? )

No. Exceptional circumstances to the 4th Amendment provisions have been clearly defined as when there is reasonable articulable suspicion that there is immediate danger to life and limb. AN example is when a cop hears a woman scream "help me, he's got a knife" He has reasonable concern that there is immediate danger to a citizen and can enter that home right there and then without a warrant. "Killer on the loose" does not fit that deefinition to enter a particualr home without a warrat.

reply to post by kimish

"Looking for a killer" - ok - but unless you have a reason to believe that the suspect took refuge in a particular house or even reliable intell that he was at least seen on that street or in the close proximity then where do you draw the line? The next town over? 30 miles in each direction? Roadblocks on all streets? Yes it was a terrorist attack but (not to diminish the loss of life or severe wounds) it was a relatively small bomb....not a truck bomb and certainly not a true WMD (esp NBC or Nuclear, Chemical or Biological). An aggressive manhunt can be justified by the need to secure the "public safety" and you could "ask" (not require) that people stay home and off the streets but when you start violating people's constitutional rights then it is time to call it "martial law" (even if the military courts do not supercede the civilian justice system) - it is a defacto militarized police state.

If the militarized cops can go around and force people obeying the authorities and staying in their own home out of their homes at gun point just to do a random (not based on direct information) search then what happens when the "authorities" pull a "Katrina" and say "no one can be armed...we are going to use the large law enforcement presence to go door to door and collect the guns?" What if they dont go that far and just do a "wellness check" and ask questions about your ownership of weapons (including firearms and ammunition) and they ask to "inspect" and make notes of them (ie serial #s) and make it a felony to lie or withhold information during questioning?

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


you guys are insane. they knocked on the door. they didn't rip him out. they are ordinary people given orders and scared out of their minds knocking door to door to find some kid that makes child play bombs out of pressure cookers.

reply to post by Gazrok


A short term solution can never fix a long term problem; there are no magic bullets. So, while drastic change can be brought about in a short amount of time, it seldom ends well. Look at recent events in Egypt after the Arab Spring, not months had gone by since their revolution before they ended up oppressed again by another entity, this time the military.

Let us say that we replaced every member of government through voting, the issue of lobbying and corporate influence would still persist and the machine would quickly restore itself. You cannot simply replace the cogs and hope for a different outcome. The problem at the root of our situation is that we have sold our country off to the highest bidder; we have lost our values and our honor, just look at how we send our military off to war for the corporate interests of oil companies, contractors, and arms dealers. We've devolved into a mercenary nation.

There is no quick fix to a problem so large. It's taken decades for us to reach this point, it is foolish to think it can all be reversed in one election cycle. The root of the problem must be addressed, and that is corporate influence in our governing system. Until we can separate government from private interest, we will not have our sovereignty.

Originally posted by Hydrawolf
If you can physically afford it get the F*** out of America asap. The downward spiral has really only just begun.

Its my plan B ..