Wanna live on Mars? Okay, but you can't come back.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Last time I heard about a small piece of space debris flying by the ISS, the whole crew left their quarters and squeezed into the two Soyuz vehicles. And even though the ISS is in the low orbit, the astronauts report seeing occasional bursts of light even when their eyes are closed (that's high energy particles discharging on their retinas). A several months' journey is too long. People will receive unnecessarily high radiation exposure and this is a bold test of luck with the space rocks. A few weeks is better. Also you will need a lot of electricity, perhaps several times more than the ISS currently consumes. Do you suggest using large solar panels for that purpose? If so, they will increase the probability of an impact, and in case of such an impact losing power will mean that people will die there. But I believe that at some point a manned flight to Mars will be possible. Maybe even in the 21st century, but certainly not in the next few years.

i would be VERY TEMPTED to do something like this.........except for that whole one way thing. i mean a year even two i could likely deal with, but to know there is no way back, to know that if something goes wrong you are screwed. sorry that is just asking too much. if this was a proper "colonization" effort of a couple hundred people with overlapping and differing skills, it would be a bit different. but just FOUR people with another FOUR a year or two later, is just pushing the limit. i can see a high probability of suicide happening.

for anyone thinking about this i have a suggestion. first just try moving to a far away country (preferably a poor nation that is in a different climate zone than you are used to) for a few months. get to understand all the things you miss and long for that are not available or just different (god i miss Tim Hortons and even snow . ). then get a couple buddies and go out in the middle of nowhere alone for a few months. arrange for a bush plane to drop occasional supplies to you (use parachutes, as friends found out as they had been lost in the barrens for a couple weeks,food goes smash when it hits the ground when dropped from a bush plane :lol. learn what it is like to be completely isolated with only a couple people to talk to. this will give you a good perspective on what the rest of your life will likely be like if you go on this mission.

in all honesty i thing the first step should be setting up a base(s) on the moon. use that as a stepping stone that is first escapable if something goes badly wrong. work out all the little issues that are bound to show up. as well as working on some type of craft that is capable of going to mars, yet also capable of returning, likely a space only type craft with a lander(s) capable of both landing and taking off from mars. and definitely have many more people going. also if a space only type craft is used the moon would make for a good start/return point for any space missions.

Originally posted by mrkeen
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Last time I heard about a small piece of space debris flying by the ISS, the whole crew left their quarters and squeezed into the two Soyuz vehicles.

You realize that the Earth orbit is more littered with debris than deep space?

And even though the ISS is in the low orbit, the astronauts report seeing occasional bursts of light even when their eyes are closed (that's high energy particles discharging on their retinas).

I believe it's Cherenkov light produced in the vitreous body, and sometimes it's possible to observe it even on Earth, at high altitudes.

A several months' journey is too long.

I think you really need to trust the opinion of radiation experts and biologists, rather than your gut feeling.

Also you will need a lot of electricity, perhaps several times more than the ISS currently consumes.

Why? The ISS is a completely different platform.

reply to post by Wanderer777

Looked and didn't see anything on this yet.

You didn't look too hard. Amongst about five other threads, I found one I myself have already posted on, which is why I recognized the topic. Not sharing because I posted on it, but because it's one of the most content-lengthy threads on the subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by AmberLeaf


Politely, how did Mr.Sulu pilot the Enterprise at much higher warp speeds then...?

Remember Captain Kirk saying something like " Plot a course to the Vega quadrant, Mr.Sulu " ( ? )

I read about this today, and i'm sure it said 10000 people had applied.
I always dreamed about being the first colinist to step foot on mars when i was younger.
But i also wonder would the moon not be a better option, just for commercial reasons, you could sell "trips" 2 to the moon to fund research.

Wanna live on Mars? Okay, but you can't come back

I often question the logic and even the sanity of those who would work so hard to 'survive' some horrible future in which civilization as we know collapses into calamity and mayhem. I mean, hell, your supplies won't last forever, you will become targets for intruders who are hungry and thirsty and in overall need of what you have... and if anything about instinctive processes is understood, we know that survival can and will bring out the worst in anyone.

What is there to survive to?

A one way trip to Mars is along those same lines, if not even worse. You would depend on the Martian soil being capable of growing things and the Martian atmosphere and ground ice for necessities like water and O2. You would also be dependent on good old planet earth to keep you supplied in repair parts for various pieces of hardware and technology.

It would NOT be anything like what those first settlers to the New World found coming to North America. At least they had some natives who were kind enough to keep them fed when all their own stuff failed them.

It's one thing to devote oneself to colonizing a new world but it's quite another to go knowing that you may meet your end NOT with some statue in the park in the center of the village... but slowly suffocating or starving to death on a world 80 million miles from the closest blue sky.

Originally posted by redoubt
It would NOT be anything like what those first settlers to the New World found coming to North America.

Pretty close, I can imagine

At least they had some natives who were kind enough to keep them fed when all their own stuff failed them.

That's your Thanksgiving narrative. In reality not every encounter was so serendipitous.

It's one thing to devote oneself to colonizing a new world but it's quite another to go knowing that you may meet your end NOT with some statue in the park in the center of the village... but slowly suffocating or starving to death on a world 80 million miles from the closest blue sky.

You can die a pretty nasty death even when exploring far and dangerous corners of our own planet, if you get lost without water and/or food in some desert etc. Yes it does happen.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Thank you for dissecting my comment. Nothing like having one's arms and legs no longer connected to the body.

I still stand by my comment.

Have a nice day

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Wanderer777

 

Looked and didn't see anything on this yet.

You didn't look too hard. Amongst about five other threads, I found one I myself have already posted on, which is why I recognized the topic. Not sharing because I posted on it, but because it's one of the most content-lengthy threads on the subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 23-4-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I meant with this brand new article released yesterday. Its been in talks for a while but it was just confirmed

I just spent about 45 minutes going over the application site, looking at the applicants' applications.....wow that was some entertainment.

I agree with other posters on here that for the most part....these folks arent thinking this thing through or even considering how horrible this experience is going to be for them. (With the exception of the Quantum physics dude on there from Italy....I bet he will be picked...)

Take a few minutes to read and look at some of the existing applicants and the applications. Most say they enjoy active outdoor activities such as hiking, biking and LOL swimming!

The majority are like this....one dude says he likes being around groups of people and meeting new people and traveling....

Ok...the short part will be the travel, but I highly doubt there will be much traveling once they get there considering they are using "Simple rovers" to set up the habititat and are expecting "No New Development".

What are we expected to learn from such a mission? Other than the effects LONG term social depravity and significantly reduced gravity on the human body/mind?

This is not the right way to do this....

/sigh

reply to post by Wanderer777

Apparently they're taking names for a one way ticket to Mars.

Thats like going to the bottom of the ocean... forever. Its silly really. You know it is a one way trip. You will eventually drown.

I wouldn't sign up for that. No Pizza Hut or drive through liquor stores on Mars. Plus, they have MISSED the damn place a couple of times. Imagine what kind of Cosmic buzz-kill that would turn out to be !

reply to post by Wanderer777


I'm in....I have been dreaming of this since I was a kid.

Hey, people explored this world not knowing they would return home. People in wars entered battles knowing they would not survive.

If someone wants to commit suicide on a run trip like this, who cares, let them. All they'll find is a planet of red dust. What a waste of a trip.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
You realize that the Earth orbit is more littered with debris than deep space?

No, I don't realize that. Basically, I have to trust your opinion.

I believe it's Cherenkov light produced in the vitreous body, and sometimes it's possible to observe it even on Earth, at high altitudes.

My guess is that these will be replaced by Cherenkov TV shows once humans leave the low orbit. And they won't be able to sleep.

I think you really need to trust the opinion of radiation experts and biologists, rather than your gut feeling.

Which radiation experts are you talking about? They are still conducting experiments at the ISS (even on that level) and every time they get new surprising results. There is no proven theory of the effects of cosmic radiation as of yet. Nobody can even explain why some people survived Hiroshima or Chernobyl while others died. This is a large set of equations with too many unknowns. And yes, my gut feeling tells me, the shorter the exposure, the better. Does your gut feeling tell you differently?

Why? The ISS is a completely different platform.

In what way is it different? For instance, I've heard about plans to convert ISS into a spaceship towards the end of its service period. There is no such thing as 'cosmodynamics' and the shape of the ship is irrelevant. In both cases you have a power station, a set of pressurized modules and a life-support system. In case of interplanetary travel, you also have engines. But it does not have anything to do with the solar panels. You will need either solar panels or a nuclear reactor. These are the two choices available now.

Originally posted by mrkeen
Which radiation experts are you talking about? They are still conducting experiments at the ISS (even on that level) and every time they get new surprising results. There is no proven theory of the effects of cosmic radiation as of yet.

Effects of radiation on living organisms have been studied in some detail. I took classes on this subject. After all, with nuclear arms race and all, and industry involving radiation (down to your typical X-ray) that's important. I think the consensus is that yes it's a challenge, and also that we can extrapolate what we know about radiation flux in space and effects of all sorts of radiation in human beings.

Nobody can even explain why some people survived Hiroshima or Chernobyl while others died. This is a large set of equations with too many unknowns. And yes, my gut feeling tells me, the shorter the exposure, the better. Does your gut feeling tell you differently?

Your gut feeling is very, very wrong. Sorry. It's the amount of energy you absorb (and the type of radiation as well) that matter the most. Some of the lethal incidents happened with an extremely short exposure (but a large dose).

As to people in Hiroshima and Chernobyl, these were different events. The firefighters who inhaled particulate matter during that operation pretty much all died.

why do i keep thinking about "survivor mars edition" when thinking about how this will be a marketed, televised event to pay for it?

i certainly hope that among the "skills" they will teach will be "how to build, maintain and run a still". and "brewing beer and wine". as well as to be sure to ship up plenty of seeds for standard alcoholic beverages and even some good "herbal" seed. cause man are these guys gonna need SOMETHING once they are there and realize they are SCREWED. just how long is exploring an inhospitable desert, going to keep them occupied? their biggest problem in the end is going to be sheer boredom once they have spent a couple of months there.

Originally posted by Hopechest
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a couple.

AND HERE..........

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This would be good if we could bring them back home.

Give it 10-15 years and we will be sending everyone who breaks the law there like the UK did back in the old days sending the convicted to Australia.