Were shots fired at the boat or not?

We have seen and heard the video containing the sound of apparent gunshots as the young man was being taken captive from the boat. Later, an official on tape said that the kid was taken by using simulated gunshots and flash-grenades affixed to the robot that they sent in.

But a later video of the side of the boat show multiple bullet holes and were remarked upon by the Fox reporter.
It had been stated earlier that the authorities wanted to take him alive if possible for obvious reasons. Yet, the side of the boat shows that it was fired upon, as we must assume was the cause of the apparent gunfire sounds we heard earlier.

So why was he fired upon if he was huddled down in the boat? If he did not display any kind of threat at that time, wouldn't that be an attempt at senseless murder? I don't recall of any claim that he fired on the officers or displayed an weapon. Did some of his wounds result from that incident rather than from the night before?

I would like to know the time line of when the robot was deployed to the boat versus when the armored vehicle approached it to rip the tarp back and when the shots were fired. This aspect of the case sounds fishy to me.

reply to post by Aliensun


I thought they only used rubber bullets. Maybe that's why it sounded like an firing range but only made dents in the boat. That boat is the most famous boat in the U.S. right now, so the guy has a great ebay opportunity.

A lot of what happened was police over zealousness. Testosterone flowing...running around to catch "their guy."

We'll never know the real story---- if the suspect was shooting at them, if his throat had been wounded before the cops got to the boat...

and how about...

the first cop shot?

Where were the brothers? Walking around MIT with bags full of explosives and ammo?

We haven't heard how or why the MIT cop was shot, have we?

I'm not calling false flag here, but I do think we need some answers.

Originally posted by MRuss
A lot of what happened was police over zealousness. Testosterone flowing...running around to catch "their guy."

We'll never know the real story---- if the suspect was shooting at them, if his throat had been wounded before the cops got to the boat...

and how about...

the first cop shot?

Where were the brothers? Walking around MIT with bags full of explosives and ammo?

We haven't heard how or why the MIT cop was shot, have we?

I'm not calling false flag here, but I do think we need some answers.

You seem confused about the time line. See this thread post for the timeline of the Thursday night's events:
Timeline of Thursday Night Events

The escaped suspect then hid out (somewhere) for the rest of the night, and through the following day. He was discovered after the citizens were told they can leave their homes, but be cautious and observant as he was still at large and might be in the area. The man at the house (owner of the boat) left to have a smoke outside, when he noticed the tarp on his boat was torn.open-slightly. He walked over to investigate, and found the tap tie-down cut, and evidence of blood. Pulling the tarp aside, he saw more blood. Peering further into the boat, he saw the suspect in a pool of blood in the boat. He returned to the house and called 911/police to report the incident.

The police arrived in force, and with a bull horn, called out to the suspect. They hear a shot (or shots, unclear) and began to return fire with "less than lethal rounds (a.k.a. rubber bullets) in order to take him alive. A superior officer called for a cease fire, screaming, "Do not return fire" over the radio. A few flash-bang grenades were then thrown/launched at the boat (unsure of details on how), which can be seen in the air wing thermal footage. This was to stun and disorient him more. The air-wing then, using it's thermal imaging camera, notice movement by the suspect under the tarp. The police called out for him to move his arms, if he wished to surrender (or something to that effect). The movement was confirmed by the thermal image in the air.

A robotic arm was then deployed (while simultaneously the police told the suspect over the bullhorn that the robotic arm was removing the cover only, to assure him it was not an attack at that point. Then he was told to stand up and come out. At which point the injured an weak suspect straddled the side of the boat, on his way out.

Down from the boat, the suspect was asked to lift his shirt to show he was not wearing any explosives. At which point he was apprehended, cuffed behind his back, dropped to the ground, and captured.

Does that clarify the timeline (this is as I heard it on the scanner, at the time, live, augmented only by the available images later from the thermal camera and photos of the robotic arm tearing open the boat covering tarp.

Well someone told me that the boat got destroyed and the people from the community are pitching in too fix it. So, I don't think it's a fake claim. Not if the community is there to help him.

Originally posted by Manhater
Well someone told me that the boat got destroyed and the people from the community are pitching in too fix it. So, I don't think it's a fake claim. Not if the community is there to help him.

edit on 22-4-2013 by Manhater because: (no reason given)

The boat did not get "destroyed". And even if it was, it is now evidence, and the state/fed would be responsible for replacing it with a new boat. Think about it....this is a crime scene. They will take it into evidence, right? SO, how could the community do something like that to "fix" a boat he will never have again?

What you read is a false claim, and likely based upon rumor.

Originally posted by Krakatoa

Originally posted by Manhater
Well someone told me that the boat got destroyed and the people from the community are pitching in too fix it. So, I don't think it's a fake claim. Not if the community is there to help him.

edit on 22-4-2013 by Manhater because: (no reason given)

The boat did not get "destroyed". And even if it was, it is now evidence, and the state/fed would be responsible for replacing it with a new boat. Think about it....this is a crime scene. They will take it into evidence, right? SO, how could the community do something like that to "fix" a boat he will never have again?

What you read is a false claim, and likely based upon rumor.

State and Federal



Are not liable to fix it.

Where did you hear that?

reply to post by Aliensun


There is a photograph showing some of the positions of the FBI HRT and MBTA SWAT team members around the boat house. I can't find the exact photograph after some searching, but here's an overview with an X marking a particular spot just out of frame.

Where the X is, if I am recalling the photograph correctly, is a two-man sniper team on the backside incline of a small shed / back house of the property next door to the boat house.



They would be firing at:



That side of the boat. Which shows a number of impacts.

The boat picture also contains some interesting visual information regarding the bleeding pattern of Suspect #2.

The blood along the rail of the passenger compartment is of a different color than the blood on the trailer wheel well. Is some of the blood more fresh than the rest?

I am not sure if we will ever know if shots were fired at the boat by either the police or the suspect. From what we know since his brother was already dead, they wanted this one alive.

If he was that able why didn't the kid shoot the guy who owned the house when he looked into the boat and saw him, he surely would have known if the guy got away he would call 911.

It is possible that damage came from the flashbang grenades, I haven't researched them but any device that explodes and has a casing will send out some kind of shrapnel.

That is the first time I have seen that picture of the boat, but they don't really look like "holes" but more like chips in the paint.

Edit, just to add another point, if it was a 2 man sniper team, they would be pretty horrible having to shoot that many times. One shot one kill.

Originally posted by Sgtkodiak
That is the first time I have seen that picture of the boat, but they don't really look like "holes" but more like chips in the paint.

I recall reading somewhere that there was some firing of some kind of less-than-lethal rounds at the boat. Perhaps those are the impacts from such rounds.

When I was following the story mid-week, after Suspect #1 died but before the boat stakeout, I felt like it was likely that Suspect #2 would commit suicide; therefore I was not surprised when the story surfaced.

On the other hand though, I have a gut feeling that that someone shot Suspect #2 either in the boat or as he was coming out. Perhaps there were rival factions within the LE presence? Some agencies wanted to take him alive. Some agencies wanted him dead. I believe there was some back-and-forth on the scanner between WPD and FBI re "lighting up" the boat.

Originally posted by Sgtkodiak
Edit, just to add another point, if it was a 2 man sniper team, they would be pretty horrible having to shoot that many times. One shot one kill.

edit on 22-4-2013 by Sgtkodiak because: (no reason given)

I'll try to find the pic. They were definitely arranged as a shooter / spotter team on top of a little shed / house in the adjacent yard and it looked like their line-of-sight was directed at the port/aft section of the boat.

reply to post by PointDume


I would think "lighting up the boat" to mean the flashbangs. There is footage out there of the thermal cam from the helicopter and you can see them detonate.

As for the sniper, as I said, if they wanted him dead and the sniper had a clear shot, he would be dead.

All pure speculation of course. We can only base our interpretations based on what we are fed for the most part.

Originally posted by Sgtkodiak
reply to post by PointDume

 

I would think "lighting up the boat" to mean the flashbangs. There is footage out there of the thermal cam from the helicopter and you can see them detonate.

As for the sniper, as I said, if they wanted him dead and the sniper had a clear shot, he would be dead.

All pure speculation of course. We can only base our interpretations based on what we are fed for the most part.

NO, I heard them using the term "lighting up the boat" in conjunction with the term "artificial sun", meaning an actual very bright (and hot) light hence, artificial sun. SO in this context, during the event, it means a light, not firing weapons or flash bangs. In fact, the officers were repeatedly reminded to NOT return fire, repeatedly.

reply to post by Sgtkodiak


My concerns are that there is clear evidence in the last few years that cops tend to degenerate into a pistol firing mob when given the slightest chance. That is a relatively new outcome, and I must attribute it to their training these days, not to mere happenstance, as with their violent use of "throw-downs" for the slightest non-compliance.
Since we did hear the "Stop firing command," we MUST assume that explains the punctured boat, pure and simple.
Fiberglass boat hulls of that size are tough. (Such boats have the color as part of the fiberglass coating. It is not simply paint. Plus, rubber bullets and flash-band grenades are not going to make much of a mark. After all, they are intended to not do much harm to a human body. (Please don't cite rare examples where that has happened.)

My concerns are that while the police/agencies have evolved into more and more sophisticated agencies with tremendous firepower and equipment today, the basic tactics seems to be to use it more and more of a knee-jerk killing fashion far beyond what is necessary.
Maybe I've seen too many poor slobs being slammed to the ground on TV'sCops and the officers high-fiving one another, smiling and saying we get to safely go home to our families tonight. I'm not anti-cop, but it seems to me as if the original goal of peace officers "to serve and protect" has been over-shadowed by different marching orders directed by a larger concept of a police state that pays for their aggressive training. As a result, there is a tendency to create an element of fear into aspects of the general, law-abiding society as more and more governmental agencies tend to produce their own black-uniformed forces.

There was reported 30 shots fired at or around the boat shortly after the call to respond to the location came in.
There is a cartoon 'timeline' image all over the net that shows the 'suspect' shooting out with a handgun from under a lifted corner of the tarp.
There is a video taken by a man who had been taken into custody the previous night where you can hear a barrage of gunfire. On this video he remarks 'they got him, they got him' this happens as 3 or 4 Bearcat vehicles drive up the road.
The mentioning of 'dummy rounds' came over the scanner MUCH later than that initial barrage.
There is a very well circulated video (poor as it is) where you can hear the incredible barrage of gunfire said to be the shootout at the boat.
I don't think those are paint chips on that boat. But I don't know how so many shots could have been fired and missed.
The boat IS destroyed, that I have no doubt. All the windows are shot out and again I'm certain those are bullet holes all over the side of it.

If you try to imagine how tense you would be if you were in the police officers shoes, then you can probably imagine it wouldn't have taken much for the police to start shooting.

Remember, one police office had already been killed and one wounded the night before.

Link to pictures of shot up boat. BOAT PICS

They are not holes in the boat. The boat has/had a plastic shrink wrap type covering over it like they use to transport boats when you see them on the highway. The marks are from the rubber bullets impacting that covering and hitting the boat behind it....transferring some of the coloring and marring the boat. The white cover is NOT a tarp....it is the same thing boats are transported in, a shrink wrap white plastic.

Boats are made of fiber glass and wood. Had that many shots been fired into that spot the kids would not be alive....every round would have made it through both sides of the boat and the suspect.

I don't think the boat was or should have been taken in as evidence. They got their guy, and that's that. When someone is arrested in a building the building itself is eventually released from police jurisdiction. I'm surprised the homeowner and neighbors went in to "fix" the boat, because he should really sell the thing to one of these crime collectors. That's what I would have done, unless the boat is sentimental to the point of it being either interesting to the guy to have it or fun to have it.

reply to post by Krakatoa


The community absolutly IS raising money to help him get a new boat or maybe fix this one. How do you know otherwise?

There are numorous reports that the boat was shot up pretty bad.

this is a well aired video recorded from the 2nd floor front window of 48 Franklin St
www.youtube.com...

Very telling that many seem to think it's OK to act on emotions. @Wildbob "officers must have been tense"...

He allegedly did this or that, or the cops were feeling this way or that way, so it's OK so open up on the boat without identifying a specific, immediate threat. It was also OK to lock down Boston to find one 19 y/o suspect (nevermind that a civilian was ultimately the one to find him) too, right?

So... Was the boat shot at...
Gee, I wonder.
+ photo posted of bullet holes... Those must be "paint transfer marks", transferred all the way through the boat!

What scares me the worst is the fact that not one agency can confirm whether suspect #2 even had a fiream in the boat.

All the accounts state "shots rang out" initially at the boat scene but no one can confirm whether the 19 yr old fired first or whether he actually had a trigger to pull.