Boston Conspiracy Theorists - Please Answer

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia

2. The images of the two Craft International guys (if that's indeed who they are) have been taken out of context and a fictional time line added. People are claiming that one of them is seen after the blasts without his bag. In fact, the image of the two in the street was taken immediately after the explosions, and both are seen WITH their bags. Why do you accept the false narrative when the evidence is there for all to see that BOTH these men had BOTH their bags immediately after the explosion, are you not embarrassed that you didn't check this before believing that story?

Would you mind posting that picture?

I'm not going to take your word for it.

If I may...

Originally posted by Cabalis
..."Them" are the people that think this was a staged event by actors or the ones that think no bomb exploded.

Thanks for responding.
I understand your sentiment, but...until they answer these questions for themselves, the probability is - they're not saying it in effort to offend you...or anyone-else.
Some people take less convincing.
Some people lean/tend in certain directions, and it doesn't take much of a breeze to put them prostrate...and trust me - from that angle, they have an entirely different view than others (who are still standing).
If people close to me were attacked, injured, killed...I would probably be yelling to the top of my lungs -- "It's Real!"
But that doesn't change the fact that everyone-else has to sift through all the news-feeds that say "it did happen", "it didn't happen", "it happened this way", "it happened that way", "Obama did it", "the NWO did it", etc...and choose who & what to believe.
Getting mad at them will only help you -- it won't help them...or - it probably won't help them.
Yeah - I know...this is a quasi-rant mixed in with a quasi-apology mixed with a quasi-thanks.
So - have fun.

reply to post by Cabalis

This is a general Boston Conspiracy Theorist thread is it not? I thought as much by reading the title. If I choose to reference other threads dealing with the situation in Boston I can.

Are you stating that I am stating what they said, and therefore My argument or questions are irrelivant because something they said was innapropriate, or you thought it was wrong?

What you said:

The same can easily be said to all the people that are picking apart the photos in other threads claiming that they are photoshopped

That is the definition of a strawman, if you want to refute MY points, you have to refute MY points... not theirs.

I believe there is evidence that has yet to be provided to the public (or that is being held until a court date has been set) that without a shadow of a doubt incriminates the two brothers.

Well, just as long as you admit that there is no evidence that has been released yet....

I'm well aware of how evidence works thank you and I think the evidence provided to us thus far is pretty incriminating.

Oh please... what evidence that we have seen has been incriminating?

Post it.

reply to post by roguedesigner

If I may...

And how many of the explosions have gone off a that point?

Is that all of the Craft Guys? Weren't there more of them?

Where were the other guys? Do you have pictures of them as well?

I dont necessarily think it's a false flag BUT the sad thing is it wouldn't shock me at all to find out that there is much more to this than meets the eye.

I just find it odd that you can't take shampoo on a plane yet a young Muslim is let into the country and then leaves for Russia for 6 months. Russia sends info stating we should watch the dude and our own intelligence "pinged" on this guy and nothing was done.

I think this incident is an example of how giving up freedoms or being ridiculously over cautious(shampoo) in attempting to stop these types of things from happening IS ludicrous!

False flag or not we refuse to surrender more liberty! As far as I am concerned the government did this to further an Orwellian agenda. Even if the facts were indisputable which they are not in this case I would still call BS and demand our elected officials abide by the laws of this country and immediately restore all of the lost 4th amendment liberties. I am not anti Goverment, I am anti anything that seeks to destroy the Constitution!

P.S. They did give up!








It's like having a cheating wife friend. A Husband will often believe complete dribble and even defend a wife who has complete contempt/hate for him. People will live in complete denial to try and avoid tearing down their well being, but at the end of the day a cheating wife is a cheating wife.

If you see anouther CISPA or Patriot act expansions come from this then I would venture to bet it was an inside job.

I could give a rats ass if this was a real terror event spawned by our war mongering, or a fake event. What's really at issue is our freedom, and what you really see in this massive backlash is the people's desire to not lose any more rights. The trust has been broken and we are still riled from the gun grabbing attempts!

I speak with hundreds everyday and have yet to meet a single person who believes the official story. This is no little affair friend! NOT ONE PERSON! If you take a look around you will see you are the minority here!

With our wide open borders I find it strange that we have not seen hundreds or even thousands of attacks!

I will try to answer some of these questions, if to play devil's advocate and try to work it out myself.

1. I think there was a foreign national, the first 'person of interest' who was deported almost immediately. This may or may not have been proven false, but this dude was possibly the instigator, the handler so to speak. So the two brothers were involved, but to what degree? And who is the deported 'person of interest'? The two brothers were involved in a wider group that they probably thought would help them escape. As far as they know, they could have been simply performing a drop off, told to leave a bag at a location and pick up their pay at a different location. Their actions show that they thought they would get away with it, after they were I.D.'d, they became desperate when they realized that whoever helped plan and instigate the attack had abandoned them. I'm not saying they were duped into it, it's possible the elder brother was brainwashed or something while overseas, but religion does often make people brainwash themselves. And for some reason, I get the idea that the younger brother was just going along with the elder one, the elder brother felt like isolated and persecuted for his beliefs and the younger brother was willing to help his brother and also more trusting and ready to believe anything that the elder one would say most likely.

2. My main interest in the CRAFT guys is that they were there at all. There were police, paramedics, firefighters, EMTs, and I think the National Reserve all there, on standby. And those brave souls (serious, respect, most of those sign up to actually help those in need) normally would be at such an event for crowd control, or someone getting drunk or sick, or any unforeseen emergency or disturbance. What baffles me is that there appears to be private contractors, bloody mercenaries, operating there as well.

3. I got nothing on the actors one. I speculate that if there was a someone who was a paid actor as a part of a greater conspiracy, then one would want that actor to have pertinent information directly to the attack or you would want that person to be able to bring their personal tragedy to where the Roman mob can feel it too. I'm not saying that the second was at all necessary, nor that those who lost loved ones there were acting.

4. I kinda tackled this in the first question a little. Perhaps the brothers honestly thought that they were clever enough to get away with it. The younger brother got one block outside of the quarantine zone that they police were searching, could have been just lucky or he could have known the area that the police normally lock down during a manhunt, but mainly, that boat was one heck of a hiding spot, shows some intelligence. Maybe they were just going to lay low for a few days before skipping town, if they had actively fled the country or something it would have been suspicious. Perhaps they had planned more bombings and were simply waiting.

5. It is possible that the elder brother was just suffering from extreme paranoia (as opposed to suffering from it AND being guilty) and when their pictures were released, he felt that the day had come that he always thought would come. Does that make sense? And when you frame someone, you want the person you frame to look as guilty as possible, so you pick a guy with intense feelings of persecution, with deep family ties, who would go to great lengths to protect his younger brother. And younger brother generally go along with older brothers, it's what they learn to do from day one.

I don't know, all of this is pure speculation. From what it looks like to me, someone in power had knowledge that something was going down, that's why the CRAFT guys were there. Perhaps the FBI hooked and baited these two kids like they recently did the solider in Alaska who sold information an undercover FBI agent posing as a Russian spy. Perhaps they had monitored this 'person of interest' coming into the country and were watching him, aware that he was planning something with the two brothers, but not exactly sure when or what was going to happen. The police and FBI like to catch criminals in the act of committing the crimes, so there's more substantial and incriminating evidence. If the FBI, or one of the other acronyms, knew that these brothers were planning something like this and had arrested them the day before the attack, all they would have had as evidence would have been cooking utensils, not bombs.

And what makes a false flag a false flag attack is the motives behind the attack, not the attack itself. The brothers definitely appear to be guilty. If the attack was only motivated by religion, well I thought that it was supposedly an honor to die while taking heathen lives, yet they didn't go the route of suicide bombers. I just want to see what the brother says and what the police reveal, while we speculate on what they don't release

reply to post by Rocker2013


U think they would be stupid enough to call it martial law? These guys aren't stupid. They call it civil emergency.

The real bombers were the Saudi looking men. The craft guys were just spotters. They covienently left after the bomb was put down.

Originally posted by amfirst1
The real bombers were the Saudi looking men. The craft guys were just spotters. They covienently left after the bomb was put down.

This is not quite right. The craft guys were the bombers, and the Saudis were the spotters.

Sometimes I think I'm living in some type of matrix. An event happens and there are various scenarios that seem to fit. He puts the backpack down, it explodes, but is seen walking away with it. The older brother is handcuffed on the ground and the younger brother runs over him, but he is seen walking nude to a police car. So many types of these inconsistencies. Maybe various timelines converge in events like these and things get mixed up. Still would like an explanation of why the "Craft' looking guys were there.

OP first and foremost, the alleged beauty of America is the ability to question the very Government that we are subject to. Perhaps you should question it a bit more and take in all of the facts first. Maybe, even let it go to trial.
Also, I thought we were innocent until proven guilty? Guess not.

Secondly, does anyone find it hypocritical that when faced with a witness that informed a radio station that she saw Tamerlan run over by a police SUV, the MSM believers shout that she's mistaken and was probably confused...
but when Jeff Bauman is stated to have wrote that the bombing suspect wore sunglasses and looked him directly in the eye, there is no question about the accuracy of his recollection. Also, did Bauman point out Tamerlan via a photo line up or are we just going by the one liner he wrote immediately after waking up in this hospital.

Anyhoo, if a conspiracy theorist is anyone who sorts through all of the facts on the case and makes up his/her own mind...then that I am, my friend.

This case allegedly has a mountain of evidence. I love the quote "You see what we have here? A mountain of evidence. You know how many cases with mountains of evidence I've had during my 20 years as a cop? None."
But that's neither here, nor there. Just a fave of mine.

I'm waiting for the trial to form an opinion. Might I suggest you do the same? All I have are questions. Questions that in a court of law, can lead to something called reasonable doubt.

I've seen nothing with my very own eyes. Have you seen the video of him dropping the back pack? Have you seen any video pertaining to him leaving with a back pack? Any video on the brother?
Provide me with a link that shows dash cams videos of cops (re: shootout)?

If you have any of that, I'll take it all in and come to my own INFORMED conclusion.

Someone mentioned that law enforcement used rubber bullets to shoot up the boat. Huh?
Not according to David Henneberry's friend who claimed that David himself was peeved about all the bullet holes in it and how tore up it was. Folks are now donating to replace the boat.



All in all, I want to take in all of the information, and as always, that means sorting through the misinformation. That's all. That's what an educated person does, capable of making their mind up for themselves.

One of your questions was, simply, why not turn themselves in?
Apparently, dzhokar went on and lived life as usual. Went to class, partied, even smoked a lil' weed. Went to the gym. Doesn't seem like he knew he was wanted, unless he was tweeting on the run.
Ask yourself this, if you're being framed and the police are after you, who do you call? Maybe you'd call the police. Maybe you'd say you didn't do it (as alleged to have been heard in one of the raw footage videos).
IF he was set up and called the cops, you think they'd release that information? Na, probably not.
If I were trying to set someone up, I'd also have his cell phone and all access to the internet disconnected.

Would be interesting to see if they have any cell phone records.

Anyhoo, time to read more and take it all in. Then filter it and come to your own conclusion.

By the way, if none of that "mountain of evidence" appears at the trial, some people are gonna be mighty pissed.
Including that alleged video of him placing the bag down.

Let me reiterate, I don't know if they did it. I don't know if they didn't do it. I don't know if they were set up by Gov't and told they were hired for a mock drill where they place their back packs down in a bomb drill. I don't know. But I do know I can't form any decent decision, without weighing both sides and seeing through things I haven't seen for myself or heard for myself. Until then, I'm just an observer, trying to weigh everything equally.

According to the OP, they're "guilty" because press conferences said they were, and HEARSAY from media teleprompter statements said they were.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by roguedesigner

 

If I may...

And how many of the explosions have gone off a that point?

Is that all of the Craft Guys? Weren't there more of them?

Where were the other guys? Do you have pictures of them as well?

So the accusation is obviously debunked by photo evidence and the implementation of the real time line of events, and you immediately move on to accusing other people of the bombing instead?

You so desperately want this to be a false flag that you need to account for the movements of every single person on the scene, of which there are thousands.

Why couldn't it have been a runner? Or another person in the crowd? Or a doctor? Or a race official? Or a police officer? You see where I'm going with this, right?

You're now back at square one, where everyone present is a suspect. You now need to find evidence that leads to at least someone being responsible. But even though you have just taken yourself right back to the beginning where anyone could be a suspect, you'll still claim that these men MUST be guilty - because you already have your belief, against all available information and evidence, that this was a false flag.

Originally posted by amfirst1
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

U think they would be stupid enough to call it martial law? These guys aren't stupid. They call it civil emergency.

It wasn't just not called Martial Law, the actions of all those involved did not fit the description of it either!

MARTIAL LAW IS NOT VOLUNTARY!

Originally posted by Frackityfrack
OP first and foremost, the alleged beauty of America is the ability to question the very Government that we are subject to. Perhaps you should question it a bit more and take in all of the facts first. Maybe, even let it go to trial.
Also, I thought we were innocent until proven guilty? Guess not.

All points that I have raised myself! Thanks.

Way to try to make me look "un-American" - I'm British, BTW

I support the legal process, which is why I also agree that the suspect should be read his rights. I am well aware of the belief of innocence until guilt is proven, and this does not change the SUSPECTS.

The evidence and information all seems to lead to the two named suspects, and I still have not seen any actual evidence or proof that anyone else is responsible for this terrorist act. Opinions are not evidence, suspicions of government are not evidence, accusations about men in uniform are not evidence, Youtube videos of other peoples opinions is not evidence, blog posts on Infowars are not evidence... paranoia is not evidence.

The brothers are suspects, and all information I have seen seems to support that belief, while there has been no information or evidence shown to me that implicates anyone else to even a third of the degree that the brothers are implicated. That's the fact here.

Give me proof, evidence, or even reasonable doubt about the guilt or innocence of these two suspects, or anyone else, and my opinions may change. Until I see something that genuinely makes me question everything that is already out there from thousands of witnesses, I'm not going to believe the random opinions of people on a forum.

Originally posted by Solarfall
According to the OP, they're "guilty" because press conferences said they were, and HEARSAY from media teleprompter statements said they were.

No, they are SUSPECTS, and their guilt will be proven or not in COURT!

Can I not make the same accusation about you, willing to blame the FBI, the CIA, the media, the government, Obama?! You are doing worse than I am, because I recognize that these are suspects, and that the information seems to lead to them, whereas you believe members of your own government are guilty, without any evidence of it, without even good reason, no proof to be able to say it!

You're a hypocrite, and you're trying to discredit people who don't agree with you because you desperately want your paranoid story to be what really happened.

reply to post by Rocker2013


I'm not a believer or non-believer on THIS case. I do see [yet again], many holes in the 'official story' and a great rush by the MSM to heavily promote this particular event. Yes, it was a serious incident worthy of media coverage, but why doesn't the story of the US dropping a bomb on an Afghan wedding, killing approx.30 people around the same time get a mention in the MSM ?

But if I have learnt anything in my life, and especially in the last few years, that when ever an incident receives over the top media coverage, you can be sure that that is usually the first indicator that something was not quite right with the official line being put forth by the media and Government. I had the same gut feeling with the Port Arthur shootings in Australia in 1996, I had the same gut feeling on 9/11, I had the same gut feeling with the Aroura picture theatre shootings, I had the same gut feeling after the Sandyhook shootings, and I got the same gut feeling with the Boston bombing. And every single time I have looked further and further into cases such as these, I have always seen familiar contradictions and patterns. And in many cases it was almost as if the media reports and style of reporting was pre-planned or rehearsed with so much information available on the 'possible suspects, despite so little time to prepare. [Remember how quickly they had the 19 hijackers pic's up after 9/11, which is still the official line used today, despite several people proving to be the hijackers named, but still alive after 9/11 and with proven cases of stolen identity before 9/11. Yes, I can acknowledge the media isn't perfect and can make mistakes, but every person on a conspiracy site in the year 2013 pretty much knows what the real role of the MSM is, and 'made a mistake' just doesn't even come close to producing a credible excuse for some of their blatant lies and subliminal influencing, in particular in cases such as the one's I mentioned above.

Now here's the other thing that makes my suspicion arouse. In all the cases I mentioned above, every single incident [plus several incidents that I haven't mentioned], all lead to either gun control [[Port Arthur], or a push for gun control [Aroura Batman picture shooting, Sandyhook , Columbine, Virginia Tech etc], or with 9/11 a Terrorist Act that seemed to be written before the planes hit the buildings !

Why do such 'random' acts, always seem to have certain laws passed, or pushed to be passed, almost as if the incident was meant to happen so that the new laws could be passed. And I ask the question I have asked 1000 times but still haven't received a logical answer to............'if the terrorist act is to protect the citizens of that nation, then how's does an Act stop a terrorist, and why is the citizens of that nation that are the one's that lose more personal rights and freedoms under the Act, yet the terrorist can act when ever they want, regardless of an Act'. ?
The Terrorist Act will NEVER stop a 'terrorist' if they are either devoted enough, or brainwashed enough. But the Terrorist Act has stripped Americans over more things than the planes hitting ever did.

It has been PROVEN time and time again that the MSM and Government lie to our faces every single day and only have their own interests and agenda's in mind. Now if I lied to you every single day, how long would it take you to at least start questioning me and my motives, or my agenda ?

reply to post by Rocker2013

So the accusation is obviously debunked

What accusation?

and you immediately move on to accusing other people of the bombing instead?

Where did I accuse anyone?

You so desperately want this to be a false flag that you need to account for the movements of every single person on the scene, of which there are thousands.

You know what I want now?

Are you just pulling this crap out of your [snip]?

You certainly seem to WANT me to be wrong, enough to make up stuff about me that I never said...

Why couldn't it have been a runner? Or another person in the crowd? Or a doctor? Or a race official? Or a police officer? You see where I'm going with this, right?

I don't need to see where you are going, to see where you ARE.

You're now back at square one, where everyone present is a suspect.

Thank you for making these [snip] leaps of logic for me, and then putting the words into my mouth, as if I actually said them....

And then you stand back, having defeated your strawman argument, and proceed to strut all over the board that you just [snip] upon.

Nice piece of balderdash there....

Let's try it again with you quoting me, instead of just making up [snip] for me to "Have Already Said" to make you look good.

You now need to find evidence that leads to at least someone being responsible.

OH.... Goody!

I'm assuming that you would NEVER post this kind of POTENTIALLY HYPOCRITICAL BULL[snip] unless YOU ACTUALLY HAD PROOF AND EVIDENCE that the people that you believe are guilty, Are in fact, Guilty!

You are not just parroting whatever the Mainstream media SAYS without question, proof, or evidence; and then demanding PROOF and EVIDENCE from anyone who doesn't believe the same as you, do you?

Registered: 8-4-2013

Ah.... you *ARE* new here.... well, that explains it.

Just heard on the news that the US wants to revoke Tsarnaev's right to a defense.

He is being tried as a citizen and civilian. He already has three public defenders, and a whole lot more lining up to help represent him (the case could make an upcoming lawyer)

he has apparently made a written statement. Wonder what that says.

It said one word: 'no' and was in answer to the question of if he could afford a lawyer.

so you've had contacts with CIA officials who duped you into something, then afterwards you her you're now being accused of being the bomber. You just turn yourself in and hope for the best? Very clever indeed! Not...

That is exactly what the two innocently accused suspects who appeared on the cover of the NYPost did. They turned themselves in immediately and were cleared. One of the reasons why the FBI published the two suspect photographs and requested ID help is because they wanted to put an end to the online manhunt which was fingering innocent people.

lets take the "Lock down" aka Martial Law incident into account.

Marshall Law wasn't declared. Nor were homes searched without warrants. The SWAT teams asked permission to enter homes and moved on if it wasn't granted. I know this because I spoke to somebody living in Watertown. Search twitter for watertown residents confirming as much.

The "craft" people are highly suspicious regardless, they were there to "protect" the crowd yet they

A Saudi student, injured at the bombing, who was in the US via a legal student visa, is suddenly deported on ''national security grounds'',

The 'craft' story and the Saudi student story are two excellent examples of how information and 'evidence' gets out of hand in conspiracy theories when the person presenting the information has no interest in getting to the truth, but rather is attempting to convince others of a preconceived idea.

There was a heightened security presence at the marathon. The drill wasn't announced over a megaphone, it was told to a participant who asked about the security teams why there were so many of them. This story turned into an announcement over the megaphone, which turned into a full drill, which turned into a drill for a bomb, which turned into a "Craft" training plot for a bomb.

Same case with the Saudi student. A foreign student being injured turns into him being a suspect, turns into him having 'suspicious' injuries, turns into him having a similar last name to an Al Qaeda suspect, turns into him now being deported! He wasn't deported - that was another Saudi student (who was deported for violating his visa after not enrolling in school).

There was a lot of misinformation in the media, but it was corrected over time. This is because of the rush to get the news out first, sometimes mistakes are made. It is no evidence of a conspiracy - infact it blows up the argument that the government have any control over the media, since the mistakes make it apparent that they are competing with each other to get information out.

A lot of the other statements and questions here are easily answered or filled in by anybody who was following the Boston Marathon story by watching police interviews, FBI interviews, reading from residents on the ground on twitter, reading the profiles and interviews that newspapers put together with family members, etc. This leads me to only one conclusion - those spouting these 'holes' in the story have no interest in finding this information out themselves. They begin with the idea that this is a conspiracy and then attempt to string together what bits of information they can to support that.

In my estimate this group who choose to believe at all costs are just as bad as the 'sheep' who blindly believe everything the government and mainstream media tells them about their own motives. You have simply replaced one shepherd with another - rather than blindly believing official sources you are blindly believing conspiracy theory sources. You are far from skeptics - a real sceptic in this case would analyze the available information - from the photos of the suspects leaving without bags, to the statements their friends and family have made etc. and conclude that the simplest explanation - that two radicalized Chechen brothers carried out a crude explosive attack on a soft target.

Open your eyes. Not everything can be a conspiracy theory. Blindly following what Alex Jones says is just as brainwashed as blindly believing everything the government says.