Knowledge

Let's have a thread that's just about knowledge that you consider important. It seems there are but few people who obtained knowledge of this reality by observance and very sharp perception of things hidden in plain sight. Suppressed nature of this reality by our own low capability of perception and filtration of facts of those in power, but also wrong mindedness of society itself and brainwashing through things that are not important. That led to incapability of people to even recognize important knowledge for us as beings of creation, even if presented literally in plain sight.

Thinking of it, I feel like it's crucial to have this thread free of labels, already established religions, cults, terms and whatever that's actually limiting our potential of understanding that complicated simplicity of things.

a) first we should ask ourselves what are the most important lessons we learned in our life by our own perception, exact experiences in our past and interactions with world around us. This category must not depend upon informations we obtained by others, but feelings we get, things we learned to be true. I think that's the most important thing, people will often say 'I learned love is the way' but often that's just a phrase that's not really realized by most people, but read somewhere and accepted as a fact, even though you can't find that exact experience that showed you that to be true. This goes for all, even small, details you realized, it doesn't matter what. Perceptiveness and thinking for ourselves is really underrated, it's the most important thing and we can learn a lot just by being free to come to our own conclusions.

b) True knowledge is often misunderstood for information about events and such. Maybe it's that too what it is, but as far as I realized (even though that's not much) it's more like..when you're doing work on a farm or chopping woods and you're not that experienced, and then after days of doing it you somehow know exactly how to do it. For me, that's more valuable knwoledge than what Iluminati did in Boston last week or whatever. I feel like I created something, I established my own fact that it's also more valuable because it's just mine. I can't give it to you, it's my own experience and only if you realized same by your own efforts you can understand, otherwise you can't be told how to paint a portrait correctly if you have no talent. Experiences as such are probably what's world made of, what we must go through in order to have knowledge. Things like that could be more important and it would be great to share your own experiences and remember to be free of labels, let's just be humans commenting our reality with this language however limiting it is. Let's not limit it even more with wrong thinking.

Some Leonardo Da Vinci's quotes:

"I am well aware that because I did not study the ancients, some foolish men will accuse me of being uneducated. They will say that because I did not learn from their schoolbooks, I am unqualified to express an opinion. But I would reply that my conclusions are drawn from firsthand experience, unlike the scholars who only believe what they read in books written by others."

"Although I cannot quote from authors in the same way they do, I shall rely on a much worthier thing, actual experience, which is the only thing that could ever have properly guided the men that they learn from."

"These scholars strut around in a pompous way, without any thoughts of their own, equipped only with the thoughts of others, and they want to stop me from having my own thoughts. And if they despise me for being an inventor, then how much more should they be despised for not being inventors but followers and reciters of the works of others."

"When the followers and reciters of the works of others are compared to those who are inventors and interpreters between Nature and man, it is as though they are non-existent mirror images of some original. Given that it is only by chance that we are invested with human form, I might think of them as being a herd of animals."

"Those who try to censor knowledge do harm to both knowledge and love, because love is the offspring of knowledge, and the passion of love grows in proportion to the certainty of knowledge. The more we know about nature, the more we can be certain of what we know, and so the more love we can feel for nature as a whole."

"Of what use are those who try to restrict what we know to only those things that are easy to comprehend, often because they themselves are not inclined to learn more about a particular subject, like the subject of the human body."

"And yet they want to comprehend the mind of God, talking about it as though they had already dissected it into parts. Still they remain unaware of their own bodies, of the realities of their surroundings, and even unaware of their own stupidity."

"Along with the scholars, they despise the mathematical sciences, which are the only true sources of information about those things which they claim to know so much about. Instead they talk about miracles and write about things that nobody could ever know, things that cannot be proven by any evidence in nature."

"It seems to me that all studies are vain and full of errors unless they are based on experience and can be tested by experiment, in other words, they can be demonstrated to our senses. For if we are doubtful of what our senses perceive then how much more doubtful should we be of things that our senses cannot perceive, like the nature of God and the soul and other such things over which there are endless disputes and controversies."

I think we can draw a conslusion that obtaining knowledge is almost same as creativity. It's creative work.

1) Post things preferably not giving random info, but something to thing about
2) Avoid conspiracy theories if not neccessary
3) Post your own conclusions, obeservations in life, things you learned that you consider important for your own growth

"There is no loftier mission than to approach the Divinity nearer than other men, and to disseminate the divine rays among mankind." Beethoven

Living from the Heart

what we know we cannot truly show...more than Love will bestow~

LOVE

"Although I cannot quote from authors in the same way they do, I shall rely on a much worthier thing, actual experience, which is the only thing that could ever have properly guided the men that they learn from."

Experience is worthy, but our personal experience is limited, thus, incomplete.

This is not a pro or con, just an observation.

Very good reasoning. I could add that I tend to learn from everyone I meet, some stuff good and some stuff that is not good. I can't test everything personally to tell if it is true. I try to figure out what truth exists in knowledge of others. Just because someone believes what they know is real, doesn't mean it really is.

I see evidence misapplied every day, everywhere in the world. I see people that think they know how something works but they don't know the real reason....This wrong conclusion of theirs does not mean that what they are doing is wrong though, it just means that their understanding of how it works is wrong. I hope I said this right.

S&F for a good thread.

Originally posted by liveandlearn

"Although I cannot quote from authors in the same way they do, I shall rely on a much worthier thing, actual experience, which is the only thing that could ever have properly guided the men that they learn from."

Experience is worthy, but our personal experience is limited, thus, incomplete.

This is not a pro or con, just an observation.

It's true, but it is what it is. You have your personal experience and nothing else. I mean, literally you don't possess or have access to anything at all but what's in your own experience. Not that of your friend, guru or mother. I think we are (maybe) given enough to realize some things, especially if living in urban areas where religion we are exposed to contradicts our own lifestyle and that of other people, science and I guess overall philosophy of our lives. Sooner or later we start wondering again, but it's hard for people to pursue that further because they don't find much support, it's not how society is taught to do. Religion is of course just one of those things, I mentioned it because it's closest thing to questioning the meaning of life, but it's not even that, you're not allowed to question things supposedly given by God! Not only that people are not supported to question, but distracted and manipulated too. There is not much use of reasoning, questioning and making your own conclusions when you're given all knowledge in schools and in media. So, we've been taught to accept what knowledge is, what it contains etc. And even that information we're getting since age of 5-6 is fake or completely irrelevant. Or even better, true but you aren't supposed to be fed information you are to realize yourself. I really like that video of 9-year old boy thinking about life and coming to amazing conclusions coming from his own mind. It's because he still has confidence in himself, he's not affraid to think and he still knows how to. Where his knowledge could come from? Not from media, school or his mom and dad, they didn't told him that, he used his own experience that is very limited, so it's evident that anyone can do it. www.youtube.com...

So, maybe he's wrong about something..he's certainly right about most of that and he's thinking right, there's no trace of disinformation, wrong mindedness in his words. He's probably been raised properly and allowed to think for himself, who knows. He's extremely observant of nature, when he compared us to ants, that's not what he's been told in school, so I know he's not copying someone else.

So yeah, it's limiting as you said, but anyone can build some basic conclusions no matter experience and then you can build on that foundation, it's just important that is solid and from your own mind.

Originally posted by rickymouseVery good reasoning. I could add that I tend to learn from everyone I meet, some stuff good and some stuff that is not good. I can't test everything personally to tell if it is true. I try to figure out what truth exists in knowledge of others. Just because someone believes what they know is real, doesn't mean it really is.

Hey, thanks for flag, I hope more people will be discussing this thread.

Good stuff and bad are the same when it comes to getting to know this reality from our point of view, I think. Extreme opposites, polar opposites tend to separate and divide meaning. You can never ignore bad stuff and focus only on good, who are we to impose our will on means and existance of other people and things that are not that good maybe not by their own choosing. Take everything in, but filter what's neccessary to you and realize that in order to learn, we can take strength from and overcome 'bad'. it's a must to see what's not like that. In ideal universe where bad things are minimal this wouldn't be important as much, but now it is because we ourselves are part of that problem. If someone more enlightened came to us we would be 'bad' but how is he/she to help us if he didn't understood or even experience that himself and overcome same problem. That could be the reason why humanity is being helped from the outside..not from this planet too and we're getting help from beings that choose to experience this life to be able to help.

reply to post by creativespirit


I believe there are beings of some sort interacting with us. I am trying to figure out what they really are. Many people on this planet have sensed them through the ages. Some call them Gods, Angels, Jinns, Fairies, Demons, and many more. I myself have seen things that defy the present Laws of Physics. Although only a small percentage of what can be known of physics is presently known or completely understood. I have a very high mechanical aptitude, testing almost at the top. My personal interest steers what I learn, not a preset conditioning they tried to push on me. I had the intellect to be a Physicist yet knowing the basics is all I desired of this subject. I was more interested in learning of people and what the layman knew, things that were necessary to live in this world. I have mastered many professions in my life. This gives me the ability to see what many people see.

I have had many friends, many of which are starting to drop dead or are getting cancer and other diseases. I just had a very good friend die yesterday. I am interested in finding how to avoid getting these diseases, A very complicated subject. This makes me have to study the good and bad of food chemistry that was touted to be good throughout history. It makes me find the motive as to why it was said to be good, often because some group would prosper from releasing half truths.

I have a motive for my studies, to help those of my kind. Fellow Yoopers who came from mining communities where metals exist in the waters we drink and bathe in. Our ancestors lived in these types of areas for many generations and our bodies have adapted to the presence of these metals. I'm going to try to help my people, to hell with getting famous or impressing people I do not even know. I don't even want to impress my kind, I want to help them. I don't know what is helping me on my quest, something I cannot see, some being from somewhere that I have no knowledge of. A spirit guide of some sort.

reply to post by creativespirit


For me, the most important knowledge that has revealed itself by direct experience is that love is where I am not.

What that means is that when there is no "I" or sense of self, when the self fully steps aside, then all that is left is love, unconditional and unbounded love.

Love cannot be owned by the self, nor controlled or bent to one's will, and neither can love be bundled up in a box and gifted to another. Love already is in all, everywhere, within and without. It is simply the self which stands in the way.

Originally posted by creativespirit

Originally posted by liveandlearn

"Although I cannot quote from authors in the same way they do, I shall rely on a much worthier thing, actual experience, which is the only thing that could ever have properly guided the men that they learn from."

Experience is worthy, but our personal experience is limited, thus, incomplete.

This is not a pro or con, just an observation.

It's true, but it is what it is. You have your personal experience and nothing else. I mean, literally you don't possess or have access to anything at all but what's in your own experience.

This is so true. We can't know more than what our personal experiences have told us. But what exactly is knowledge? I don't know. Well, for one it's a word, and I believe that "true knowledge" can't come from language. So what is "true knowledge"? I don't know, but I know I don't know and I know I don't need to know how to define "true knowledge" because for me this is feel-able and not intellectually knowable. It is only realized through personal experiences. For example, when I had my first astral projection (although it was a pretty lame projection since as soon as i projected, everything started to spin and I was "thrown out of it" ) I realized that there are so much that science can't explain. I mean, I don't believe in the supernatural/paranormal, just because these words are so deceiving.

To me, everything I perceive is of course intrinsic to nature just because everything IS natural. How could something NOT be natural? I believe that true knowledge can never come from a reductionistic approach to reality. Sure, I may feel happily tipsy after I down two bottles o' brew, but I won't reduce my sensation of happiness to the fact that the alcohol has released dopamine in my body: my happiness is not "just deriving from a certain mix of molecules in my blood". I'm not saying that I think reductionism is bad per se, but it's dangerous when too much focus is put on reducing everything to something smaller. The Universe adheres to a magnificent design and is meant to be perceived as holistic. I believe that the reason for our existence is that the Universe wants to observe itself (and we are as much a part of it than anything else).

Perhaps this is what I mean with "true knowledge"?

However, I love playing Trivial Pursuit and watching quiz shows, but to me this is not "true knowledge", but just linking certain words/pictures with each other in my head. I find it very fun, though!

The purpose of life is to be able to be of service to others. Just a thought.

Don't use matter for what it's meant for. Aum Be creative.

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

reply to post by Akragon


So, what you mean is, be yourself?

reply to post by Angle


That depends on who "yourself" is...

Not everyone knows love...

reply to post by Akragon


We are all equal.

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Akragon

 

We are all equal.

True...

Not everyone feels that way though...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Akragon

 

We are all equal.

True...

Not everyone feels that way though...

How's that possible?

We are all borne with the best tool known to us "our own mind". But we only put our trust in the mind of the others.
We often argue matters that we have no knowledge about. Because what we like to argue is the knowledge of others.

Originally posted by Angle

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Akragon

 

We are all equal.

True...

Not everyone feels that way though...

How's that possible?

That is beyond me... why is there racism? why are people elitists?

Why do Christians think they're the only ones going to heaven?

While its true that we are all equal... not everyone has that same value system...

Most think they're better then someone....

reply to post by Akragon


Illusions do exist.