Concealed carry fails in Illinois House

Who didn't see this coming? It's this bill that didn't pass, but they can craft a new one or modify this bill and try again. I knew this would be an up hill fight. With Chicago pretty much controlling everything to do with guns, they're going to make this as tough as possible. They have no choice, they have to come up with a concealed carry law, but by the time it is warped and twisted to fit the anti gun/ anti rights folks, it'll be a joke of a law. I would love to ask those who voted against it one question: If tougher gun laws work, why is Chicago and New York the deadliest places in America?



www.myfoxchicago.com...

Posted: Apr 18, 2013 7:42 PM CDT Updated: Apr 18, 2013 7:42 PM CDT SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (Associated Press) - The Illinois House has defeated a proposal allowing the carrying of concealed guns in public. The vote of 64-45 in favor of the bill failed because it needed 71 votes. A supermajority was necessary because the law would pre-empt the home-rule powers of several cities. The legislation sponsored by Democratic Rep. Brandon Phelps of Harrisburg would have required authorities to issue concealed-carry permits to anyone who passed background checks. Phelps used a legislative procedure that will allow him to recall the bill later for another vote. Illinois is the only state in the nation that prohibits possessing guns in public. A federal appeals court in December ruled the law unconstitutional and gave Illinois until June to adopt a new law.

why is Chicago and New York the deadliest places in America

You might want to add Detroit in your list...S&F

Big Cities (especially capitals) always think they know what is best for everyone in a state. Even Austin TX. is trying to rule and make inane laws for the rest of the state but luckily other large cities hold the line, shake their head and just say no..

My understanding is if they don't have a bill for concealed carry in place by the June? deadline Illinois defaults to unregulated carry (congressional carry is the term the gun shop used) and all you will have to have at that point is your FOID card to legally carry your weapon.
If that is the case I hope the factions within the IL govt keep failing to come to an agreement.
Apparently Madigan (not sure if it was Lisa or her dad) was saying that we should try and ensure IL ends up with a "may-issue" conceal carry law. If that happens none of us "peons" will get a concealed carry. They will just ensure that only retired police and anyone one with important political ties (and money) get a carry license. I think the courts should declare "may-issue" laws as unconstitutional because it's just a fancy way of pretending to give people their rights while still disallowing them.

reply to post by DAVID64


Actuallly, Chicago and New York are not the "deadliest places in America". That would be New Orleans, followed by Detroit, then St. Louis, Newark, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Stockton, Cleveland, Memphis, DC, Miami, and then there's Chicago. You're less likely to be murdered in NYC than you are in Wichita, Kansas. Or Louisville, Kentucky. Or Minneapolis, Minnesota. Or Ft Wayne, Indiana. In fact, it's 45th (of 71) among US cities with a population over 250,000, despite being the most populated and densest.

Try to at least have accurate information to support your opinion before you try to pass it off as a fact supporting a clearly flawed assertion.

Statist ics

Originally posted by LuckyLucian
reply to post by DAVID64

 

Actuallly, Chicago and New York are not the "deadliest places in America". That would be New Orleans, followed by Detroit, then St. Louis, Newark, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Stockton, Cleveland, Memphis, DC, Miami, and then there's Chicago. You're less likely to be murdered in NYC than you are in Wichita, Kansas. Or Louisville, Kentucky. Or Minneapolis, Minnesota. Or Ft Wayne, Indiana. In fact, it's 45th (of 71) among US cities with a population over 250,000, despite being the most populated and densest.

Try to at least have accurate information to support your opinion before you try to pass it off as a fact supporting a clearly flawed assertion.

Statist ics

edit on 4/20/2013 by LuckyLucian because: clarify

Nice forum slide with false info backed up by a link containing no facts.

Chicago: No. 2 in the Nation for Murder
cnsnews.com...
Gingrich Calls Chicago "Murder Capital of U.S."
www.nbcchicago.com...

leave chicago out of the CC bill....the rest of the state wants it. make it an "anyone can carry bill"

chicago needs an exception due to its violence.. if people started carrying in chicago would criminals just shoot people first then rob them?

chicago is a violent city and they fear people with guns and the gangs run the city. The people believe if law abiding citizens carried guns, there would be more guns on the street and more shootings would happen! chicago doesnt know the difference between law abiding citizen and criminals with guns, they just dont get it!

The rest of the state wants it....give it to us!! permitless carry for us......let chicago deal with on thier own!

Someone needs to forward this to the Illinois law makers ASAP !
Subject: Pressure Cooker Control

I believe that pressure cookers are too-readily available in this
country....what we need is some logical, common sense pressure cooker
controls. First off, who REALLY needs a pressure cooker, anyway? Perhaps
they should be restricted to just professional chefs?

I think a background check should be required to purchase/possess a pressure cooker - we can't
have just anyone walking in off the street and buying one. A 5 day waiting
period to take possession is only common sense. There is no telling what
whackos could do with an unregistered, unregulated cooker! Of course
felons, people on psychotropic drugs and other undesirables will be
forbidden to buy one. A ( P.C.) permit will be required before any purchase is
allowed...it will be a 10 hour class, a very thorough background check,
fingerprints, a written 500 question test and you must demonstrate the safe
use of the cooker before the permit may be issued.

A stiff fee will be needed to offset the cost of the permit process and the permit will be
renewable every 5 years. A multi-page registration form will have to be
developed so we can keep track off those persons that have them. Once we
have a list of where these cookers are, confiscation will be an option at a
later date. Perhaps they should be reclassified as destructive devices and
subject to the National Pressure Cooker Act?

Each cooker of course will have to have a serial number and be of limited
size. It should be modified to contain only low, limited pounds of
pressure. Many safeguards should be built in to ensure adequate safety.

Of course, only one pressure cooker purchase per month will be allowed to
limit the number of cookers in circulation. Safe storage will be mandated
to prevent children from being harmed by the cookers....of course, a safety
lock will be mandatory with each purchase of these Saturday Afternoon cooking
Specials.

To me, this is a logical, first step to ensure the safety of our citizens.
I urge everyone to write your legislators and demand immediate
implementation of the above suggestions for the children and safety of our fellow citizens.

reply to post by yellowsnow


Wow, really?

I'm going to assume you clicked the link, so you know how they work. So try it again, go to the FBI's database page. Then click their links to the data. Here, here's a Wikipedia link that coincidently uses the same FBI data in their handy sortable table. Here's another. Tip: click the links. And here is another. And remember, click the links! I won't do your work for you since you've already demonstrated an aversion to information that contradicts your worldview so it'd be a waste of my time. (Or you're lazy, I don't know.)

Secondly, I don't care about the raw total numbers. I think it'd be fairly obvious to your average 5th grader that a city of nearly 3 million would likely have a higher total of homicides than, say, a town of 300. I'm stunned I even need to explain that, frankly. Not a single word I wrote in my previous post was false, and the fact that you aren't capable of clicking links doesn't equal a site not having any facts.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I was a member of the NRA up until LaPierre lost his marbles a couple years ago. I have guns here in my home. But I don't support CC or the "stand your ground" laws. The NRA's arguments for them are factually inaccurate. I cannot conscionably support their position based on specious arguments. For instance, they have said for many years that the states with the least gun laws are safer. This is completely false. From 2002 to 2011 states with the fewest gun restrictions such as Louisiana (12.1/100,000 during 2002-2011), Mississippi (7.8), Alabama (7.1), Georgia (6.5), South Carolina (7.1), Arizona (6.9), Tennessee (6.6), Missouri (6.4), New Mexico (7.7), Arizona (6.9), and Nevada (7.3) are consistently rotating among the top 10 states with the highest homicide rates (with Maryland at 8.8 thrown in amongst the mix). I've culled through the raw data myself numerous times and have created many, many spreadsheets to coallate all the data. Compared to stronger gun law states like New York (4.5), Hawaii (1.8), Connecticut (3.1), Massachusetts (2.7), while Illinois (6.2) and California (6.1) are in between. Facts are facts and the NRA is wrong so I can no longer support their agenda.

I live in Illinois, the capital of Springfield to be exact, and I work in state government. It's not a political agency in any way, in fact we are required to be independent. I'll leave it at that, it's beside the point anyway. The fact is I read press releases related to news around the state every day at work over lunch and a lot of it is politics. Various bills being debated, issues about our joke of a pension system, yadda yadda yadda.

Anyway, for those who don't live in or know much about the state, the concealed carry thing is basically boiling down to Chicago democrats (very powerful in Illinois) trying to make the bill as restrictive as possible with regards to where you can actually carry, types of guns, types of ammunition, etc, and downstate (anywhere outside Chicago, even north and west of the city) Republicans and Democrats essentially in favor of concealed carry without a lot of restriction.

The last action I heard was that the bill is being considered as piecemeal as possible. Basically taking votes on each specific clause or requirement in a potential bill. For example, instead of debating and voting on an entire bill, they are picking it apart and having votes on specific parts such as being allowed to carry in school zones, or bars, or sporting events, and seeing where legislators stand.

It seems to be progressing slowly, but sometime this summer, I can't remember the exact date but it's June or July, Illinois has to have a concealed carry law. Whether it will ultimately be deemed constitutional is anyone's guess. It will depend on what the final bill actually ends up looking like.

Originally posted by yellowsnow

Originally posted by LuckyLucian
reply to post by DAVID64

 

Actuallly, Chicago and New York are not the "deadliest places in America". That would be New Orleans, followed by Detroit, then St. Louis, Newark, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Stockton, Cleveland, Memphis, DC, Miami, and then there's Chicago. You're less likely to be murdered in NYC than you are in Wichita, Kansas. Or Louisville, Kentucky. Or Minneapolis, Minnesota. Or Ft Wayne, Indiana. In fact, it's 45th (of 71) among US cities with a population over 250,000, despite being the most populated and densest.

Try to at least have accurate information to support your opinion before you try to pass it off as a fact supporting a clearly flawed assertion.

Statist ics

edit on 4/20/2013 by LuckyLucian because: clarify

Nice forum slide with false info backed up by a link containing no facts.

Chicago: No. 2 in the Nation for Murder
cnsnews.com...
Gingrich Calls Chicago "Murder Capital of U.S."
www.nbcchicago.com...

I won't dispute the statistics saying Chicago is a murderous city. See my above post, I read stories about Chicago murders and violence every day. That said, I lived in the city for 2 years and never once did I feel unsafe in any way. The violence is very much concentrated in specific parts of the city. It's still a problem but I feel like, especially lately, lots of people are making the city out to be like the Wild West. It's been a couple of years since I lived there but that's not the place I remember.

Originally posted by FaithandArms
My understanding is if they don't have a bill for concealed carry in place by the June? deadline Illinois defaults to unregulated carry (congressional carry is the term the gun shop used) and all you will have to have at that point is your FOID card to legally carry your weapon.
If that is the case I hope the factions within the IL govt keep failing to come to an agreement.
Apparently Madigan (not sure if it was Lisa or her dad) was saying that we should try and ensure IL ends up with a "may-issue" conceal carry law. If that happens none of us "peons" will get a concealed carry. They will just ensure that only retired police and anyone one with important political ties (and money) get a carry license. I think the courts should declare "may-issue" laws as unconstitutional because it's just a fancy way of pretending to give people their rights while still disallowing them.

This is what I'm afraid of as well is that these dipfeces will find a way to override a Constitutional Court Decision, and will likely get away with it. Illinois has been staying alive despite being ruled over and (mis)managed by the lowest-IQ, most-corrupt scumbags the Republican & Democratic parties have to offer for decades.

Hopefully they will fail and that defaults to concealed carry for everyone (who is mentally stable.) I would prefer open carry personally, I don't see the point of concealed except as an option, but whatever. If my wife is allowed to protect herself against the wierdos who walk around our neighborhood while walking the baby, I'm all for it. In the meantime, she'll just have to walk with 200-lbs of Hell on Paws as deterrent.