Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations...Would We Find It?

reply to post by terriblyvexed


Good point. Again, we can't judge how advanced were ancient civilization. Our point of view contemplates our necessities, like computers or smarphones.

For example, Incas had a perfect knowledge of the circle and the wheel. However, they didn't developed vehicles with wheels. Why? One of the explanations is simple : They didn't need it. We do.

But they were able to develop a huge road network called QAPACÑAN, connecting the whole empire.



bo.kalipedia.com... .Kes

The question that I would have is would we recognize an ancient artifact if it was far more advanced then the tech that we have now.

Would we have known what an led light was 150 years ago?

Would we have known what a helicopter was 500 years ago?

What if technology is so advanced we don't recognize it. Say we find a flying carpet would we just see it as a rug?

What if we find a piece of crystal and think it's merely a pretty object when if fact it's something so high tech we don't have a concept how to use it?

two good books on the subject;
'Morning of the Magicians', I think the author was Pauwels
'Timeless Earth', aurthor Kolosimo (Kolisomo?)

both books speculate 1) there was/were previous civilizations/tech
2) occasional evidence is found (Piri Reis maps, amphora batteries) but misinterpreted or ignored.

another example; the little gold items found in latin America, dismissed as jewelry, that look like ancient aircraft or earth-moving machines.

s8int.com... item#7

as pointed out, most of our tech would not last long buried.

fascinating subject. one of the mysteries of the Bible is, how far did man develop before the flood? (I know lots of you don't believe in the Bible but there is undoubtedly lots of good history info, and many scientists agree with the flood theory, at least in the Mediterranean/Black Sea area, the Epic of Gilgamesh also mentioning)

Great idea to ponder. I've thought about it many times. I guess you would have to think about the idea of civilization first and ask yourself how you would define it. In my opinion there aren't any civilizations left, if you consider them to be large groups or cultures that act civilized.

One of the signs of a great civilization migh be thinking in the long term as a whole. This would entail leaving behind monuments that last forever in order to show your fortitude. It would also mean that you didn't leave too many signs of your being there, especially in terms of things that may be harmful to the future of your civilization or species.

One of the most interesting things to me that I don't think most pick up on is the amazing balance that some of the cultures that existed in antiquity must have had. The fact that these people had the ability to spend so much time and energy on building some of the ancient monuments says a lot about how much energy they must have saved in the process of feeding sheltering and protecting themselves from the various elements that tend to take up 90% of the lives of most peoples.

Another interesting thought is in how the conscious reality played out in the minds of the people that lived during these times. It may be that their world was something that doesn't really exist in ours. Maybe we can only see a small part of their legacy and the majority of the message they left behind is indecipherable by us or other less civilized folk.

The short answer to your question in my opinion would be that the world and it's history does not belong to us, it belongs to our ancestors. Only this time is ours. We only have the ability to see a very small glimpse into the past. The magnitude of the size age and numbers of ancient civilizations is mostly incomprehendable. But you can be sure that it is so much more than we currently believe.

I would not be surprised if ther were a small number of other sentient species that have existed on this planet at different times. There may be others here now.

So, what I would like to do is have a discussion with some of our more knowledgeable members about the likelihood that advanced civilizations existed, AND that we would find evidence of such existence today

Well that doesnt include me,

But I personaly think they would find all kinds of stuff, say they were as advanced as we are now wouldnt they find our stuff on the moon and maybe other space junk?

Or would that all deteriorate into nothing over time?

Always love your threads SNF

reply to post by Trueman


That's very interesting I love this stuff. You get a star for that post.

reply to post by TheKeyMaster


Well it's like I said about the sunken cities, they had to be built before sea level rise the last big ice age
was about 150,000 years ago.

I truly believe humans are older than we're told. There's lots of evidence too, foot prints with dinosaurs drawings, and pottery of creatures that they shouldn't know about .(granted some are faked)

Recently they found mammoths in a dry lake bed with knife marks, and stones in their guts indicating they were being stored in the water to keep the meat fresh. How dose this back my theory the lake bed is estimated to be about 500,000 years old.

So I figure it makes since if man has say millions of years instead of a few thousand when they began building the pyramids then they have much more time to make technology like cranes, saws, and other tools.

Originally posted by rickymouse

They found a gold bell buried deep in a mountain buried in coal. It was formed right into the coal. This means something built it millions of years ago.

In 1944, as a ten year old boy, Newton Anderson dropped a lump of coal and broke it in half in his basement and found that it contained this bell inside. The bituminous coal that was mined near his house in Upshur County West Virginia is supposed to be about 300 million years old! What is a brass bell with an iron clapper doing in coal ascribed to the Carboniferous Period? According to Norm Sharbaugh’s book Ammunition (which includes several “coal anecdotes”) the bell is an antediluvian artifact (made before the Genesis Flood). The Institute for Creation Research had the bell submitted to the lab at the University of Oklahoma. There a nuclear activation analysis revealed that the bell contains an unusual mix of metals, different from any known modern alloy production (including copper, zinc, tin, arsenic, iodine, and selenium).

reply to post by cenpuppie


Slayers thread

Just beefing out a good thread

Thinking about this kind of thing lead to considering how they measure and/or control time, as some of these artifacts just shouldn't be where they are and in the condition they're in, either that or their dating is insufficient for the job.

The reason why we find anything from past societies is because they decided to build things out of formidable stone, and etched their records into them.

We have computers, buildings made of steel, and many more things that will decay with time.

Maybe people's remains will be left behind, and many more un perishable things, but most
of our records will perish within the next 10,000 years.

All of which was covered in that documentary.

Even our building will fall and their remains will rust until they are fully broken down.

reply to post by Quauhtli


One of the things that I've wondered is if you are truly an advanced civilization perhaps you live close to nature and don't leave much behind

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Anything left behind, there will be archaeological evidence of it. Some things preserve and it's just a matter of time before it's found. It can't all be totally eradicated with time.

I think the more important question to ask is.."If someone found evidence of ancient advanced civilizations, will it be handled properly and made public knowledge, or will it be discarded and suppressed?"

I have a feeling that any findings that challenge the existing paradigm of thought will not be handled properly.

edit on 19-4-2013 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)

So...first and foremost you envision the future world to be populated by conspiracy theorists? My, my...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

You are talking about nanoseconds of time in the big scheme of things. These tunnels and things you talk about could be wiped away by massive violent earthquakes we can't even fathom... if someone had never experienced an extreme hurricane they could never conceive of winds driving a wooden splinter through a tree or metal. The era we have lived in is like the calm before the storm.

Why? Then if everything is 'wiped away' why do we find tens of thousands of fossils and artifacts from the past? Why no sign of resource use? No sign of those tunnels, etc - while at the same time we find evidence of tribal societies?

Also, remember that people live near water sources mainly. The water level has risen dramatically in history.

People in the past lived near fresh water not the sea, look at where the first civilizations arose

Add massive erosion to that and entire civilizations could be covered with sediment or wiped off the face of the Earth by solar events or meteors. Look at the dinosaurs.. they lived for millions of years yet relatively speaking we see very few fossils when you think about it.

We have hundreds of thousands of fossils of dinosaurs from a time frame of hundreds of millions of years - but not one thing from an earlier civilization - so how do you explain this selective wiping away of 'civilizations' but not the evidence of 'non' civilization?

Think how many dinosaurs must have existed... especially compared to man. and how large they were. The fossils seem like a lot to us.. but when you consider how long they lived it's likely a ridiculously low amount. And we have lived for a nano second compared to the dinosaurs.

Our ancestors were there too and we find traces of them - all the way up to the present - no sign of 'civilizations'

But the traces seemed to have been designed to survive just such events. This shows us that at some time these people were aware they could be lost in time.. maybe like legend told them past civilizations were lost in time... yet they KNEW the past civilizations existed and we do not because that information may be kept from the general population or because over time we have convinced ourselves it was a myth or a wive's tale.

lol quite a leap of logic - so people lived in a primitive way in a cave for 250,000 years to show people in the future that they were really highly civilized? ..............ah okay

Lack of evidence for these 'civilizations' while there is evidence that 'wiping' didn't occur....hmmmm

Thanks for the discussion I won't be back to ATS for some time - have a good night

Originally posted by dondrews
So...first and foremost you envision the future world to be populated by conspiracy theorists? My, my...

My question and concern is very valid. You can attack me and avoid the issue all you like, but it's still a valid question.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by Harte

 

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions here...

The foundations of buildings could be the first things to go because water collects underground and doesn't dry up like it does above ground. The water would corrode and penetrate all the man made material below.

Also... even though we could know of million year old mans remains that doesn't mean entire eras on Earth couldn't be wiped away and destroyed by catastrophes. Those million year old eras could be protected by a calm environment before and after the era. If an era did NOT have a calm spell during it's time they could easily be destroyed without a trace.

edit on 19-4-2013 by TheKeyMaster because: (no reason given)

If a layer of clay were to be deposited, that would preserve the artifacts. They have found dozens of wooden ships all across the world this way; Viking ships, the Mary Rose as well as related objects like cannonballs and cannons.

The Antikythera Mechanism (www.antikythera-mechanism.gr...) is by far the most interesting device every discovered. Consisting of 42 different gears, it would calculate the positions of the moon, sun and planents for a particular date. The user would have to set some levers, then wind the device to the correct time.

www.nature.com...

" Named after its place of discovery in 1901 in a Roman shipwreck, the Antikythera Mechanism is technically more complex than any known device for at least a millennium afterwards."

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Anything left behind, there will be archaeological evidence of it. Some things preserve and it's just a matter of time before it's found. It can't all be totally eradicated with time.

I think the more important question to ask is.."If someone found evidence of ancient advanced civilizations, will it be handled properly and made public knowledge, or will it be discarded and suppressed?"

edit on 19-4-2013 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the reply.

Why do you think the information might be suppressed? I'm curious.

If we found a crashed spacecraft, it would have Dual Use Technology on board.

The United States of America has the right and the responsibility to protect its secrets.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by terriblyvexed

 

That's a great point about Da Vinci.. imagine if he had some more people around who were as smart as him as well. It seemed his problem was that he had no one else around like that.

I am curious why you think the advance civilization had to exist so long ago though - 150,000 years. What makes you think it was that long ago? I think both all eras are possible though.

The Pleiadians discovered Earth 200,000 years ago.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by Harte

 

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions here...

The foundations of buildings could be the first things to go because water collects underground and doesn't dry up like it does above ground. The water would corrode and penetrate all the man made material below.

Also... even though we could know of million old mans remains that doesn't mean entire eras on Earth couldn't be wiped away and destroyed by catastrophes. Those million old eras could be protected by a calm environment before and after the era. If an era did NOT have a calm spell during it's time they could easily be destroyed without a trace.

A wooden stake driven into the ground will leave that impression in the soil and the sedimentary rock it hardens into - that will only be destroyed by subduction. How do you destroy kilometer long tunnels in granite? We made several hundred just in this civilization? So where are the old ones? Why don't we find old mines, precious gems, cut ones are all but indestructible - no sign of them, etc

That is where your thinking is lacking. You are assuming that 'advanced' means that the ancients followed the same technological evolution which is clearly not the case. You assume that if they were advanced they would need to build mines, mine metals for mass production of materials. This was not needed since earths population was far smaller than today and the civilizations that did exist that could claim itself to advanced would consist of very small pockets of habitat that would usually be too far to trade or communicate with.

If the world would be destroyed and man lost its history again. In 10,000 years lets hope that the archaeologists dont start digging in Africa or in the jungles of Brazil as they would determine that man 10,000 years ago or around 2000 a.d were still using wooden spears and living in grass huts. You could even ask them what the history was and they will claim that it has always been "primitive". To these tribes in the present day, they do not know of mega cities, rocket ships, smart phones, over population that exist mere miles away and that if man was to be destroyed again they will be the only ones left to tel lthe tale that does not mention our techno society.

Long time reader, became a member yesterday, first time poster.

With as many historical "facts" that are being proven false in the recent past, it makes me wonder how much we actually know about the human race. Example being Columbus was the first non native to discover the "Americas" (still conflicting reports on who did to my knowledge). All over this site it seems to have proof that "Ancient" people knew more about the planet than we give credit. It seems to me that if the Earth is billions of years old and had so many era ending moments, that the complete destruction of an ancient past and removal of all evidence of their existence would be plausible.

Cheers,

Tony

Originally posted by Stugots16
Long time reader, became a member yesterday, first time poster.

With as many historical "facts" that are being proven false in the recent past, it makes me wonder how much we actually know about the human race. Example being Columbus was the first non native to discover the "Americas" (still conflicting reports on who did to my knowledge). All over this site it seems to have proof that "Ancient" people knew more about the planet than we give credit. It seems to me that if the Earth is billions of years old and had so many era ending moments, that the complete destruction of an ancient past and removal of all evidence of their existence would be plausible.

Cheers,

Tony

Earth has a hidden history.

We were not the first ones here.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Its a very intriguing question and one I have thought a lot about. Here is what I would look for:

1. Areas which seem to have suffered a loss of biodiversity in the past due to environmental destruction that appears to have been caused by man-made activities. The Amazon is going through this right now. If it stopped tomorrow and you came back in a few hundred years and did a DNA analysis of various species, it will show up as a bottleneck in genetic diversity that can be dated through extrapolation.

2. Evidence of mining operations. Any advanced civilization would use a lot of natural resources. Where are the abandoned mining operations?

3. Artifacts. Somewhere on the planet there may be technologically advanced artifacts still in existence. Possibly underwater as cities tend to be on coasts and rivers and the sea level has changed drastically in the past 100,000 years. Or in an installation buried deep underground, or even under the ice (Antarctica?)

4. Space. Did they have satellites? are any of them still orbiting the Earth? Did they leave anything on the Moon? Mars?

5. Evidence of a man made catastrophe. Is there anything to indicate that there could have been a war, a plague, etc? I know there are some ancient cities in India that are radioactive, not sure if that is naturally occurring from clay's in the soil however.

If there was an ancient advanced civilization, and there has certainly been enough time for one, it would leave subtle but detectable footprints.