Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations...Would We Find It?

reply to post by Arnie123


You may find this interesting:

______beforeitsnews/alternative/2013/05/8-us-soldiers-disappear-removing-5000-yr-old-flying-machine-from-afghan-cave-video-2641526.html

I have not seen the Sanskrit texts discovered by the Chinese in Lhasa but the descriptions fits well with my own understanding of Vimana (spaceship).

If this news is correct that US soldiers found a Viman in Afghanistan, it is likely to be millions of years old (at least 10 million years) and not 5000 years as claimed.

The society that existed 5000 years back did not know about construction of Vimans.

I want to tell readers of this thread a lot of interesting stuff but people can get it only if they get over preconceived notions, specially historical view of humans on earth as told by 'science'.

It is a fascinating story of a society on Earth that was very advanced in every field of science, yet lived under natural or God's laws and in harmony with nature.

Ramayan is a real story, a story that occurred 18.1 million years back. Himalayas were not as high as today and Arya people lived mostly in Tibet and central Asia. They also lived south of Himalaya in Gangetic plains. The Himalaya was passable then and several rivers actually started from north slopes of Himalaya and then turned in Tibet plains and through Himalaya and then flowed through Gangetic plain to the South sea.

Ramayan tells a lot about these people, their form of Government, their laws, the geography at that time, and the technologies that they used in everyday life.

Many artifacts still lie buried that will tell the story of Arya people when found in future.

reply to post by GargIndia


i eagerly wait the announcement from the worlds leaders on this amazing discovery

seriously

besides my derision, you should start making threads.... this particular post you made would qualify as a thread - some people here would love this stuff, and others would rip it to shreds, but it's pure ATS. get on it

From the beforeitisnews.com webpage on the vimanas

It is claimed that a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!

Few years ago, indeed.

There was no Chandigarh University, few years ago. But there is a Chandigarh University at present, which was established last year, 2012. here is the link to the University's page.

How did Dr. Ruth Reyna get associated with a University which wasn't even established "few years" back???
Even if you could consider that the Chandigarh University could be the Punjab University which is indeed located in the city of Chandigarh, correspondences withe Punjab university indicate that there was no such Dr. Ruth Reyna associated with the University in any faculty or in any kind, even as a student.

Secondly, Google search indicates that Dr. Ruth Reyna is a real person, but she is not a Phd Holder in Linguistics or Archaeology etc, But a Phd in Philosophy in 1961 and that too from the University of Poona, Maharashtra, India. She is not qualified to make a statement or even to analyze the "manuscripts" (if such manuscripts did exist)

Originally posted by GargIndia
I want to tell readers of this thread a lot of interesting stuff but people can get it only if they get over preconceived notions, specially historical view of humans on earth as told by 'science'.

I have to ask...where do you set your standards of credibility? Is it believable because you'd like it to be? At precisely which point do you ask yourself whether or not a given internet revelation is fact? You'd like us to take what you say as gospel (if I may be a might mischievous), but you provide no validation beyond a will for it to be so.

So...where do you call shenanigans?

This is a fascinating thread - and, I'm going to go out on a limb and say BOTH of the following posits are probably correct:

1) That there have been [likely, multiple] advanced civilizations in our planet's history, despite...

2) The contingent that says, 'if so, where is the evidence? There is currently none to support it' (at least, definitively).

To the folks in camp #2 (Harte, etc), I submit the following 3 points...

A) I believe a vast majority of anything we may find to be beneath our oceans. An area where it is much more 1) expensive, 2) difficult, and 3) vast to have been significantly explored.

Consider all the findings we have made on land, and how frequent they seem to be popping up more and more, over the years - now, consider all of the landmass that we HAVE NOT even had the chance to examine yet - places where it is not comfortable / profitable / easy to do so... Antarctica, Greenland, Siberia, upper Canadian territories - many of these relatively unresearched landmasses could've been much more temperate, long, long ago. And, we just don't explore them as much (in relative terms) because it is not convenient to do so, now.

NOW, also consider... of all those unresearched areas... it still only comprises less than 30% of the Earth's surface. Still got all those places under water, I was just talking about, above (!)


B) A post made earlier in this very thread, bears repeating:

Originally posted by CrikeyMate
I'll start by saying I haven't read all the replies in this post, so if this has been said; Apologies in advance;

But, what about "space junk"? Objects left on the Moon, or indeed, Mars.

If indeed "past civilisations" were as advanced as us now, or even moreso; Would there not be traces still in Space?

.... or is there! :-)

If there were space-faring civs that made it out, think of the number of people who would even be privvy to this informtion. There are 8 Billion people on this planet. I would wager less than a few hundred heads have the access, technology/ability, and clearance to even know what is up there, and chances are if anything were found, this knowledge would not be made readily available (and, even if so, known) to the common man.


And, speaking of supressed and/or available information to the masses, remember...

C) From another thread: the propensity for factions in each/every/any civ to destroy their own history - OR - not even, at least, have a clear record of even the most 'recent' (last few thousand years, nevermind millions) events or developments:

Originally posted by Skyfloating
When you say "evidence is missing" I would like to point you to the following historical events:

The Long History of Book Burnings by political and religious zealots

The Library of Alexandria burned down

U.S. Library of Congress Burned

No Access to the Vatican Library

A History of Military, Political, Religious and Social Censorship

The Inquisition: Destruction of "alternative knowledge"

In this type of atmosphere...which continues to this day...we cant expect to have a clear picture of ancient events.

Anyway... some food for thought.

Great discussion. I'm still reading and star'ing away.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Hey Squirrel nuts

Let me simplify it for you

1. No evidence for earlier high tech civilizations, a great deal of evidence against this theory
2. We may (unlikely) find such evidence in the future
3. Until #2 occurs it is scientifical correct to say no such civilizations have been found

Remember the Denisovian came to light based on one finger bone, forever changing our view of humanity and history, a lesser effect was made by the hobbits and a hundred and fifty or so years ago we found the Neandersthals - amazing stuff. I must ask why you think the US government would have info on this subject- did the Europeans transfer all this super secret info to us in the 17th century?

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I said I would not but in again and am staying out of the discussion but in your support they keep saying there is evidence no previous advanced civilization (I am assuming they postulate technological) has ever existed yet they are actually unable to provide such evidence only statement's of opinion when they would be far more scientific and accurate to state that no evidence (At least disclosed to the public by whomever wants the patent's and the money and wealth they can generate) has ever been empirically proven to exist.

The nature of the argument therefore resides in Opinion's and the stated belief's that the party's opinions are undeniable fact and are used as evidence even though most of the fact's that normal archaeology claim's to be irrefutable are based on corroboration and varied form's of analysis many of which are only reliable in a certain window of time such as radio carbon or argon krypton isotopic ratio dating method's which it has already been pointed out are defective method's at best and better method's such as dendrochronography (tree ring dating) which relies on living specimen's or comparable specimens of known age that can be compared by ring thickness in a given area and only that geographical climactic area can give a very accurate dating method as can ice cores for climactic study's of global vulcanism. The further back in time the greater the margin for error both serious and minor in all form's of dating so it is a science that lag's far behind the much more correctly titled sciences (stradling the line between science and the art of interpretation) that have produced the technological world but still a science nevertheless and one that the modern world also owes it's current cultural shape too.

Though we may disagree on many point's don't be wound up but take there knowledge (When it is knowledge) on board and formulate your own opinion's but don't be blinded either by the believer's (such as myself) or the dis believer's as a student formulates there own opinion and arises at acceptable result's through methodology and scientific rigor but always remember's that there opinion is only the best they can form with the data at hand.

Hypothetically (Just a fanciful speculation) a civilization evolves and leaves the earth some prior species or more advanced sub species and looking back they decide to clean the holy cradle from which they were born as it remains there mother, erasing all trace of there derelict city's and very existence and leaving the environment as pristine as they can maybe also they watch the children that there mother raises after them.

Now I am putting my gag back on and shutting up (As best I can).

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

I said I would not but in again and am staying out of the discussion but in your support they keep saying there is evidence no previous advanced civilization (I am assuming they postulate technological) has ever existed yet they are actually unable to provide such evidence only statement's of opinion when they would be far more scientific and accurate to state that no evidence (At least disclosed to the public by whomever wants the patent's and the money and wealth they can generate) has ever been empirically proven to exist.

So, is this a semantics complaint, or are you really asking for evidence that there's no evidence?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Since you ask it has been your side if not yourself so far that has been playing at symantec's and I would like not to see evidence but 'evidence against' as that is the word that is being bandied around and as you know there is absolutely no evidence against it would have to be interpretation of the accumulated data and that is of course a matter of opinion,.

So if you can provide quantitative and final evidence that no previous advanced (Not necessarily of Hominid Origin) has existed in the past 4.25 billion years estimated since the earth formed from the sol accretion disc.

There are a hell of a lot of us whom would like to see it and the reasoning behind the interpretation.

Though I would much rather sit on the side lines here, it is interesting how quick you have been to criticize the hypothesis and yet not the erroneous statements made against it.

I will emphatically state that I know of no public domain evidence that can be concisely linked to any previous advanced civilisation of the type we are alluding too but also there is absolutely no evidence other than the lack of evidence (somewhat debatable) for there having been any that there never was, but as you know the ruin's in the gulf of cambay and the ruin's north west of cuba are possible very close in data and may be from between 9500 to 12500 years old if the carbon 14 dating that was performed is accurate on the ruins at cambay that may be the legendary city of dwarka and another unknown city, and though there is obvious religious interpretation included GargIndia dating of 14000 years for one stage of his oral history is a very good match though such may be hard to swallow for some I do know.

Hmm at least we have not fired iron thunderbolt's at each other that explode with the light of 10,000 suns create a great billowing pillar of fire and throw entire army's into the air, cause skin to blacken and teeth, hair and nails to fall out as well as poisoning the food and water, and our army's haven't had to wash themselves and there equipment in the rivers to get rid of the poisonous heavy element fallout have they.

You know there are mysterious areas of glass in several deserts around the world and that some of these layers are mildly radio active, there isotope's are incongruous but do not match volcanic types,.

www.marcjager.com...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
greyfalcon.us...
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...
www.forbiddenhistory.info.../79
tribes.tribe.net...
www.disclose.tv...

And as you already know these areas have been exposed through wind powered sand displacement and there are probably a very great many more that are in more humid climes and never come to prominence.

The theory's range from comets to meteor strikes, pyroclastic activity even when there is no volcano to the nuclear war.

Come on who are you kidding.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by Harte

 

Since you ask it has been your side if not yourself so far that has been playing at symantec's and I would like not to see evidence but 'evidence against' as that is the word that is being bandied around and as you know there is absolutely no evidence against it would have to be interpretation of the accumulated data and that is of course a matter of opinion,.

So if you can provide quantitative and final evidence that no previous advanced (Not necessarily of Hominid Origin) has existed in the past 4.25 billion years estimated since the earth formed from the sol accretion disc.

There exists no evidence for such a thing.

There is no such thing as evidence against such a thing, except the utter absence of evidence for it.

Originally posted by LABTECH767 I will emphatically state that I know of no public domain evidence that can be concisely linked to any previous advanced civilisation of the type we are alluding too but also there is absolutely no evidence other than the lack of evidence (somewhat debatable) for there having been any that there never was, but as you know the ruin's in the gulf of cambay

There are no ruins in the Gulf of Cambay (Khambat.)

Originally posted by LABTECH767and the ruin's north west of cuba

Nobody on Earth knows what's on the ocean floor at that site. Certainly, nobody knows of any "ruins" there.

Originally posted by LABTECH767 are possible very close in data and may be from between 9500 to 12500 years old if the carbon 14 dating that was performed is accurate on the ruins at cambay that may be the legendary city of dwarka

Wrong location. Ancient Dwarka lies just offshore of the existing city (also called Dwarka.) But, perhaps you haven't heard - ancient Dwarka is a real place and archaeology is ongoing at that site,

Originally posted by LABTECH767 Hmm at least we have not fired iron thunderbolt's at each other that explode with the light of 10,000 suns create a great billowing pillar of fire and throw entire army's into the air, cause skin to blacken and teeth, hair and nails to fall out as well as poisoning the food and water, and our army's haven't had to wash themselves and there equipment in the rivers to get rid of the poisonous heavy element fallout have they.

We have not done so, and maybe that's because neither of us is Charles Berlitz, who fabricated the entire "quote" you reference here and claimed it was from the Mahabharata (the words do not appear in that work.)

Originally posted by LABTECH767You know there are mysterious areas of glass in several deserts around the world and that some of these layers are mildly radio active, there isotope's are incongruous but do not match volcanic types,.

I know no such thing, and neither do you. Unless your talking about (semi) modern nuclear test sites.

Glass does exist in remote places, attesting to the heat generated by nearby meteoric impacts.

Harte

reply to post by LABTECH767


The evidence against

Civilizations leave massive archaeological footprints - none have been found

You might want to think long and hard about the top one, amateurs often underestimate the amount of stuff a civliization puts out - let me explain furhter: if by magic we made all known ancient Egyptian evidence disappear it would take someone just a few minutes to find new evidence of the AE civilizations - just go outside anywhere in present day Misr and kick the sand around and you'll find pottery sherds, cut masonry....or a stone tool.

Agriculture modifies the biosphere(environment) that will show up in sediments and within palynology - this is not detected nor is there any previous use of key resources.

Example: In the 17th century when flintlocks were developed people went looking for more flint - they found prehistoric flint mines - lots of them. Have we found mines for the use of key resources? Nope

No sign of a high tech civ in ice cores either - they leave contimants, none found

No sign of domestication of plants or animals, etc

reply to post by Harte


Here is one of many hundreds of entry's in every language around the world on the used on the net except possible north Korean about the gulf of cambay or as you correctly and using it's modern/old title in Khambat.

Please pay attention to the institution's involved and the source of the announcement's concerning the discovery though it was leaked earlier.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is the wikipedia entry written by sceptics whom though they are trying to dismiss it are at least admitting there is something down there and one quoted source claim's it would have taken 50,000 years to sink to that level, Goodness man even Paulina Zalitzki whom used to work for the soviet navy submarine specialty and is an eminently trained and qualified individual, and not an atlantean devotee whom was searching for treasure ships at the time was shocked.

This was one of the early sonar image's released to the press.

www.bing.com...=detail&id=45F91F7A60D90DB12D8433FE284DA797316D22AF&selectedI ndex=14

Here is a computer generated image based on the side scan data.

www.bing.com...=detail&id=9615A199C43A63460D8103400829DE557652356E&selectedI ndex=7

But then you are not interested as there is to quote you nothing there.

And Hanslune what were you saying about traces (I'm being sarcastic you will find traces if you look in the right place's).

One caveat this does not mean ancient Nintendo players even if it look's like it dropped out of Zelda or even scientific knowledge like today but it does suggest a highly organised culture that had been around long enough to refine there architecture and building skill's, wouldn't it be nice to find they were not homo sapian though it does fall at least a hundred thousand years after modern human's are 'Anthropogically' accepted with the current available data though it may put the out of Africa theory to a very hard test.

As I said whom control's these site's can if there were any ancient high technology present take credit for/exploit the technology in the form of patent's and some time's in an economy so tightly tied to oil keeping the cleaner and cheaper energy off the market is seen as in the interest of the economy as well as potential military and surveillance application. My belief being what it is I do not know that I would do otherwise as it is conceivable that a modern civilisation needs the economy to turn to prevent social stagnation and decline but that all depends on the psychology of the culture involved.

reply to post by LABTECH767


The missing web threat sunken city off cuba.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


Dwarka
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by LABTECH767


And what places are these traces?

Labtech is it possible, just possible in your world view that any report of a 'lost city' could be wrong? Or if an initial report is made it MUST always be correct and can never ever be withdrawn for lack of evidence, or found to be a mis-identification?

Personally I would love to find another human civilization - been looking for one since the mid 60's, 'ain't found one. What we will probably find is lots more advanced cultures like Catahoyuk and Gobekli Tepe. As for Civilizations like our own you'll have to go way, way back before the rise of modern human's. The farther you go back the better chance there would be to find an unfound ancient (non-human) civilization

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by Harte

 

Here is one of many hundreds of entry's in every language around the world on the used on the net except possible north Korean about the gulf of cambay or as you correctly and using it's modern/old title in Khambat.

Please pay attention to the institution's involved and the source of the announcement's concerning the discovery though it was leaked earlier.

Already been there.

"Ceramic" pottery recovered in the Gulf of Khambat:

Imagine what you would try to tell us if they had dredged up one of the following natural aggregates:



Also, dredging up a piece of old wood from an ancient bay is not exactly evidence of even a single dwelling, much less anything like a village or city.

I wonder, did you read what is written at the link you provided?

Carbon Dates

One of the main controversies surrounding the GKCC is the dated piece of wood. Dr. D.P. Agrawal, chairman of the Paleoclimate Group and founder of Carbon-14 testing facilities in India stated in an article in Frontline Magazine that the piece was dated twice, at separate laboratories.[2] The NGRI in Hyderabad returned a date of 7190 BC and the BSIP in Hannover returned a date of 7545-7490 BC.[4] Some archeologists, Agrawal in particular, contest that the discovery of an ancient piece of wood does not imply the discovery of an ancient civilization. Agrawal argues that the wood piece is a common find, given that 20,000 years ago the Arabian Sea was 100 meters lower than its current level, and that the gradual sea level rise submerged entire forests.[2][5]

[edit] Artifacts

Another controvecial issue are the artifacts retrieved from the site during the various excavations. It is disputed that many of the items that have been identified as artifacts by the NIOT investigators are actually manmade. Instead their artificial nature is contested and they are argued to be stones of natural origin.[5]

Researchers report finding sherds of pottery as indicative of hand-made and wheel-turned pottery traditions. The reported sherds have simple rims with small incised lines. All of the pottery fragments found so far are small or miniature sherds.[4] Part of the controversy is that some of the "sherds" are natural geofacts and others lack any proof of any connections, as with the dated pieces of wood, with the purported "ruins" found by NIOT researchers. In addition, their small size also raises the possibility that the real sherds have been transported from elsewhere by local, strong tidal currents. But if the pottery is genuine, researchers say it should show some similarities to Harappan pottery, which is typically red and black and stamped with seals. Based on the current pottery collection, a stylistic continuity of Harappan civilization isn't evident. The small size of the artifact collection makes it difficult to conclusively analyze the pottery.[2][5]

[edit] Geography

The Gulf of Khambhat was formed by a major rift that resulted in a down sliding of the Khambhat region. The area is very tectonically active today, and several faults can be found in the gulf. Periodic earthquakes also occur here.[6] This knowledge has led several archeologists to state that the site is not in a secure enough context to be reliably dated. Because of the tectonic activity and strong currents, these archeologists claim that there is not sufficient stratification to be sure the recovered artifacts can be associated with the site.[2][5]

[edit] Collection Methods

Complaints have arisen because NIOT recovered artifacts by dredging the sea floor of the site. This method might allow errant artifacts to be collected along with those that actually correlate with the site. Analyzing stratification is virtually impossible with this method as well.[2][5]

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I MOST CERTAINLY DID, NOW at least you read these one's and you are of course aware that the Indus valley civilisation ash layer has been used by the nuclear industry to cover up extensive radiation leak's at it's nearby facility but nevertheless the high radiation level was noted in the 1950's before there facility was even built.

As for the wood, the scientist's whom brought it up would never have sent something as prosaic as a piece of random wood for such expensive testing all the way to Germany as well as there own university and they know the circumstance of it's retrieval so I trust there judgement on that matter rather than a fellow armchair observer and yes there are many such sunken forest around the world were the sea level rose to engulf them,.

I also put it to you that many of these specialists are far higher in there respective field's than you are giving them credit for.

controversialhistory.blogspot.co.uk...
(probably quoting from more dubious sources but nevertheless)
agoracosmopolitan.com...
(Read the comment's on the next one very intelligent indeed you must admit - Sarcastic)
karsewak.blogspot.co.uk...
yemega.com...
aagam73.blogspot.co.uk...

Much more interesting and probably more accurate.
www.oocities.org...
socyberty.com...
karma-dharma-bhutadaya.blogspot.co.uk...
aagam73.blogspot.co.uk...

So it was not the Mahabharata it was the Bhagavad Gita.

A lot of the information is recycled from other sources so urban legend as you say in America or Chinese whispers as we say in the UK but there is a core of data that may simply be misinterpreted but nevertheless makes the hair stand up on the neck.

I have however heard of Iron arrow heads found in some of the skeletons at mahenjo daro and harrap and some other speculative theory that they were destroyed by Eurasian invaders who swept through on horse back and simply destroyed a peaceful and unwarlike culture but surely they would have fled.

Harte I value your opinion's as weather it is your intention or not it make's one search for more valid information and that is an educational experience that I hope others are following but nevertheless you are wrong about the glass layer's though there source remains open to interpretation and as you know.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by Harte

 

I MOST CERTAINLY DID, NOW at least you read these one's and you are of course aware that the Indus valley civilisation ash layer has been used by the nuclear industry to cover up extensive radiation leak's at it's nearby facility but nevertheless the high radiation level was noted in the 1950's before there facility was even built.

You can type whatever you want, but can you provide any reference for the above?

The dig you reference here was conducted in the late 1920's. About the same time, Geiger invented the first device that could measure radioactivity.

Problem is, the geiger counter was not available commercially at that time:

Ghiorso was born in Vallejo, California July 15, 1915. He grew up in Alameda, California. As a teenager, he built radio circuitry and earned a reputation for establishing radio contacts at distances that outdid the military. He received his BS in electrical engineering from the University of California, Berkeley in 1937. After graduation, he worked for a company that produced emergency communication devices and invented the world’s first commercial Geiger counter.

source

Also:

Albert Ghiorso was born in 1915 in Vallejo, California, of Italian and Spanish ancestry. As a child, he developed a fascination with airplanes, machines, and radio. As a teenager, he built short-wave radios that out-performed military equipment. After obtaining his B.S. degree in engineering from the University of California in 1937, he built specialized radio gear, and through that work came into contact with the Radiation Laboratory on the Berkeley campus. This led to his employment designing and building the world’s first commercial Geiger counters to detect nuclear radiation.

source

I'd like to see you link to any legitimate academic publication that indicates the presence of this radiation at the dig.

The story of this radiation is a fantasy concocted by somebody that posted it on Keelynet. They claimed the source was a magazine - the 'World Island Revue" - that, as far as I can tell, never actually existed. The story was later reposted on Rense and since then has made the rounds of forums like this a million times (try searching here and you'll see.)

Here's a pdf that tells you why all the "anomalies" at Mohenjo Daro are not anomalous at all: Link

Originally posted by LABTECH767 As for the wood, the scientist's whom brought it up would never have sent something as prosaic as a piece of random wood for such expensive testing all the way to Germany as well as there own university and they know the circumstance of it's retrieval so I trust there judgement on that matter rather than a fellow armchair observer and yes there are many such sunken forest around the world were the sea level rose to engulf them.

Not to mention the fact that the Gulf of Khambhat recieves the drainage from fully one-fourth of the Indian subcontinent, and wood does get washed down a river, right?

Originally posted by LABTECH767 I also put it to you that many of these specialists are far higher in there respective field's than you are giving them credit for.

controversialhistory.blogspot.co.uk...
(probably quoting from more dubious sources but nevertheless)

A blogger knows how to post. He, like you, can type. That's what this site tells me.
BTW, from that link:

The corpses were so burnedAs to be unrecognizable.The hair and nails fell out;Pottery broke without apparent cause,And the birds turned white. After a few hoursAll foodstuffs were infected...

The blogger claims the above is from the Mahabharata. It appears nowhere in that Epic.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
So it was not the Mahabharata it was the Bhagavad Gita.

Please note:

The Bhagavad Gita (Sanskrit: श्रीमद् भगवद् गीता, Śrīmad bhagavad gītā) (Sanskrit: [ˈbʱəɡəʋəd̪ ɡiːˈt̪aː] ( listen)), The Song of the Bhagavan, often referred to as simply the Gita, is a 700-verse scripture that is part of the Hindu epic Mahabharata.

source

Look, I know this stuff can be hard to keep up with, but Good God, man! Won't you at least make some small effort?

I ran out of characters, so I was going to respond to the rest of your post in a seperate reply. From the above, I can see that it's just not worth my time.

Harte

reply to post by LABTECH767


And what was your reaction to this was?

Previous post on why we can say with some confidence that there were no high tech world-wide human civilizations before this one since the rise of modern HSS

reply to post by Harte


Thanks Harte enlightening and that does clear some up but I am still dubious about the wood and your rebuttals are much more enjoyable and intelligent than some not to mean offence for the most part at least, As for me being able to type, well that is debatable as I am certainly a sceptic there good job your not a primary school teacher, they would all be crying the two ways to take criticism are to be annoyed and self righteous if you believe in what you post or to winkle out the good from the bad and accept the information.

I am actually very new to the net and have had a fascination with this subject for over 20 year's but the data I had available was very limited, still while I like your comment's for the information and intelligent use of data I can only say it will take a lot more to completely shake a conviction that is so entrenched and while I can not claim any knowledge of the Sanskrit text's of the Indian subcontinent other than what I have read on the net or in the public library prior to the last year that I have had net access so can not easily refute or as some do TWIST the data to my perception, as I do not see this as an argument but a series of hypothetical scenario's and with each new bit of information a bit of the fog is cleared but with some disappointment.

I am seeking and so are the others whom are genuinely interested in this subject as indeed were or are you to have chosen the profession you have, but there may be more than one possible outcome here as my belief in a previous civilisation is not easily broken,.

Have you with a unbiased view looked at the structure's off Cuba (Look I know it is not actually possible to look at them but the data that has been provided by the team themselves) or the other structure's such as the megalithic stone structures off japan (japan is volcanic so the whole island chain can undergo relatively very rapid geological alteration compared to the mainland). just looking at the pacific while I was in japan in the 1998 scared me and I couldn't wait to get away from the sea even though I have not hydrophobia, looking at it gave me a feeling of vertigo.

You know I have valid point's on some of these area's and have no wish for notoriety but it is a deep passion with me, take the glider from the Egyptian tomb that was stuck in a box of random artefact's until it was spotted for what it was, not that unusual as the native Australians used boomerang's which as you know are aerofoils but it is nevertheless fascinating or the invention's of Heron of Alexandria whom could of with just a few slight alterations have invented the steam train but instead merely invented an automatic door and horn that sounded when the temple supplicant's placed a coin into a receiver, or the Chinese water powered blast furnaces and there innumerable invention's, did these idea's just pop out of thin air or was there a deep seated tradition other and a previous age of civilisation (And I do not mean Electronics' and consumerism), in a just over 250 years we have gone from sailing ships to rocket's and if we could so it unless we constitute another race that has yet to be classified then why (other than smaller population base) did they not in the preceding 100,000+ years that the human race in it's homo sapien guise has existed.

The past is not our future but nevertheless it is a mystery we are driven to explore.

There are too many mysteries and they need explaining so thank you Harte, I might be back but the quality of your last answer though it left some things alone was sufficient to please me.

If it make's any sense to you my belief in a previous civilisation would have to be far further back than man has apparently existed and that mean's I have to bring the option of a possible previous sentient race to the idea but the only possible support I can find is in the few anomalous artefacts that have been encountered in mine's and other geological excavation.

The city off of cuba is a game changer unless geological activity can be proven and I have a theory about that, Harte there are many good men like jim Irwin (god bless his soul) whom search for what the world calls insane but and in his case it was to help the world so it is a shame he never found it in this life.

Here is a weird one for you, I read on one site that the polonium isotope in deep rock had far too little degradation and decay ring's that form a pattern around the polonium were too small to quantify the age that the rock was supposed to be, just something to think on though you may already have investigated for if that is the case then the geological dating of the earth is wrong and it is a hell of a lot younger than anyone today would believe except in creationist circles (whatever you may think of them there hearts are in the right place for the most part anyway).

reply to post by Hanslune


You are right as far as the clear geological record goes but it is not always that clear as during time's of glacial maximum when the sea level's were far lower a great deal of relatively flat fertile land was exposed with warmer climate and rich in resources these were the ideal places for cultures to develop leaving the hinterland for the barbaric wildmen and as the old saying goes all rivers run to the sea, have a look at google earth and the river canyon's that exist right to the edge of the continental shelf, it is there that the most interesting sedimentary core's would likely be found but deeper due to the increased sedimentation from longer rivers and later estuary outflows followed by the sea sediment's after sea level rise, for the majority of the past 200,000 years the homo sapien has been a hunter gatherer with small nomadic tribe's, as for Egypt there has been unbroken habitation there for at least 7500 year's and probably longer, there have been several distinct civilisation's there most notable the old and new kingdom's, as the encroaching climate change at the end of the last ice age drove group's of people together and other than the fertile crescent it may have been one of the genesis point's for recognisable agriculture though there are rumour's of possible ten thousand years plus rice paddies in the far east I don't know how valid those claims are but then there are the Ural mountain spirals, if they are not cold war waste from some soviet project then they are technological waste that are said to be in deposits' dating from 20,000 to 384,000 years old, how true this is well at least investigate.

You know that glass does brake up with the exception on natural glass because it's crystalline structure is different and does not separate out., plastics will last a few hundred thousand years at most and more plastic the more plastic eating bacteria as you have provided a food source, most metals break down over time so as you quite rightly say we would have to go a long way back and as I also postulate there is a possibility of another species having got there first, were are they though, as I feel we have to look just prior the mega ice age that is called the snow ball earth theory (it states with some growing support that the entire planet froze over with maybe not even free water at the equator for a period of nearly 500 million years about just over 2 billion years ago) as that would have erased all previous evolutionary life trees leaving only the microscopic and some simple sea life form's especially near the deep water hot vent's, this is made more plausible by the fact that nearly the entire surface of the earth is resurfaced every 675 million year's leaving only isolated rock that may contain fossil evidence, indeed if there is any truth in the mars question then that is when we have to look to find a connection,
We are that lucky that we have not erased our own species but there is still time as we are by nature a destructive creature that is ill evolved to dwell in such dense numbers and it is possible that any advanced human civilisation would be short lived with a low tech rise like our own.

War was the left engine that drove our modern technology and industry the right one as it has always been about money and resources at least for our species.