3 good questions for christians/creationists

It's odd to me that in this so-called modern world that people still believe the stuff in the Bible. It's comical really.

But here's my question about God and sin. And it's a question that stumps most Christians. The conversation generally goes something like this:

ME:
Is God all-knowing?

CHRISTIAN:
Yes.

ME:
And if I sin, does it displease him?

CHRISTIAN:
Of course.

ME:
But if God is all-knowing, then at the very moment I was created, he would know everything that I would do in my life, good and bad. So how can he be displeased now, when he knew all along what was going to happen?

CHRISTIAN:
Because he gave us free will. Hence he didn't know how we'd turn out.

ME:
Ah. So what you're saying is, God isn't all-knowing. In fact, he's fallible.

CHRISTIAN:
Of course God isn't fallible!

ME:
Well he must be. If your version of events is correct, he created a fallible species, then failed to know how it'd turn out.

CHRISTIAN:

reply to post by IBelieveInAliens

ME:
Is God all-knowing?

CHRISTIAN:
Yes.

God knows what is going on because He has angels that go around and see what is happening, then go back and give a report in Heaven.
That's how the Bible explains it.
The other stuff is the lingering effects of the Medieval church/state conglomeration that had to thoroughly terrorize the population in order to get compliance to its authority.

reply to post by jmdewey60


God is what is knowing - presently.
God is knowing the light that is appearing presently.

God said let there be light - he sees the light and it is good.

Man looks outside of the light for more - he worships 'other' than what is. He suffers because this is not enough for him.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

God is knowing the light . . .

You are probably thinking of the material universe and are overwhelmed by it to where you imagine it as being God.
That is the beast, don't be fooled into thinking it is anything different.
God lives in the universe but as spirit beings, sort of like us but better, meaning they don't suffer from the same sort of desires as we do, not having material bodies like ours.
That leaves God somewhat unrestrained as to things that can be done which sort of transcends the material nature of the universe.
We call on God basically because of a long history of God helping people, and people being around for a long time, where it is pretty much included in our beings genetically.

I was raised Roman Catholic, and went to Catholic schools all the way through college. I've since lost my faith, both in God and humanity. I think it started around high school, when I REALLY started to question things, like how organized religion, like anything else structured, has tiers of power, and when power is involved there's always going to be corruption, at least until they figure out a way to eliminate greed from the human psyche. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I have a question for the believers: Why was God so quick to reveal himself and openly speak with people in "biblical times" but now we hear and see nothing? I think above all else, humanity could use a little sign, just letting us know God is still with us.

reply to post by oldetimehockey4


Nothing has changed since biblical times... Most people that "spoke with God" had agendas back then, and its no different now...

God hasn't left us... hes just watching...

reply to post by oldetimehockey4

Why was God so quick to reveal himself and openly speak with people in "biblical times" but now we hear and see nothing?

That was necessary for a miraculous beginning of Christianity of having legitimacy of divine intervention and saving events, like the resurrection of Jesus and the previous saints who rose with him.
A special spirit was given to the surviving disciples of Jesus that Jesus had to go all the way to heaven to get, that was for the express purpose of founding Jesus' church. Out of the spirit eventually came the New Testament writings which are inspired for doctrinal purposes and also for that official seal of God.
God does come to people but not in a dramatic way like before since Christianity is not exactly new any more.
The hierarchical system as you described is something that evolved later during conflicts with competing religions like Gnosticism, so it was a sort of defensive mechanism that grew from its new found civil legitimacy with the Empire, and adopted its form of organization from the existing Roman military structure. So, not an organic aspect of Christianity and like you said, always to be suspect for possible or inevitable corruption.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by IBelieveInAliens

 

ME:
Is God all-knowing?

CHRISTIAN:
Yes.

God knows what is going on because He has angels that go around and see what is happening, then go back and give a report in Heaven.
That's how the Bible explains it.
The other stuff is the lingering effects of the Medieval church/state conglomeration that had to thoroughly terrorize the population in order to get compliance to its authority.

edit on 20-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

That doomed Sodom & Gomorrah.

reply to post by charles1952


Simple. God is imaginary and the bible is the directions for one to beleive in a fairey tale. Most Christians will argue this, when faced with overwhelming evidence it's imaginary. They will suspend reality as we know it to fit their stance. They simply ignore the passages in their book that relates to death and slavery and the like. They tend to use the ones they like and leave out all the rest. It can't be this way. To have to suspend reality in order to beleive in somthing is at best a farce. When the evidence we have say's there's no God , they just cant handle it. so they choose to not see the forest. Old testament, less than 500 verses dealing with prayer, less than 500 dealing with love, but over 2,500 dealing with money and possession's. Not my numbers, go to God Is Imaginary they have the stats. That's a website by the way. It;s for folks like me, who do not beleive in any of it, No matter the religion, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Hebrew Etc Etc Etc. Some many religions and supposedly just one God. Go figure.

Right now I am reading a book not sure I can mention the name

about out of body experiences which kinda proves God exists and Universe is manufactured/created

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

God is knowing the light . . .

You are probably thinking of the material universe and are overwhelmed by it to where you imagine it as being God.
That is the beast, don't be fooled into thinking it is anything different.
God lives in the universe but as spirit beings, sort of like us but better, meaning they don't suffer from the same sort of desires as we do, not having material bodies like ours.
That leaves God somewhat unrestrained as to things that can be done which sort of transcends the material nature of the universe.
We call on God basically because of a long history of God helping people, and people being around for a long time, where it is pretty much included in our beings genetically.

There is no such thing as the 'material universe'. Can this image that is made of light that is ever changing be called 'material' - there is nothing solid here.
The light that is appearing in presence is the light of consciousness (Christ) but man builds a 'world' in mind made of time which does not exist.
Jesus overcame the world by realizing that 'the world' is no more than a bunch of ideas appearing in presence.

You call on God because you are full of fear.
It is only the contraction of energy which makes you feel separate from the entire energy.
When the fear drops away it is realized that there is only God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

God is knowing the light . . .

You are probably thinking of the material universe and are overwhelmed by it to where you imagine it as being God.

As I have already told you - God is seeing.
God sees the light and God says it is good.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by charles1952

 

Simple. God is imaginary and the bible is the directions for one to beleive in a fairey tale. Most Christians will argue this, when faced with overwhelming evidence it's imaginary. They will suspend reality as we know it to fit their stance. They simply ignore the passages in their book that relates to death and slavery and the like. They tend to use the ones they like and leave out all the rest. It can't be this way. To have to suspend reality in order to beleive in somthing is at best a farce. When the evidence we have say's there's no God , they just cant handle it. so they choose to not see the forest. Old testament, less than 500 verses dealing with prayer, less than 500 dealing with love, but over 2,500 dealing with money and possession's. Not my numbers, go to God Is Imaginary they have the stats. That's a website by the way. It;s for folks like me, who do not beleive in any of it, No matter the religion, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Hebrew Etc Etc Etc. Some many religions and supposedly just one God. Go figure.

edit on 20-4-2013 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

Your problem is that you were born with a " veil of forgetfulness ".

Read the 10 Commandments over just 1 more time.

Also, read the words spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ.

He is our chosen savior.

BTW, we are all at different levels of spiritual development. That is why we have so many

different religions.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

 

Well spoken, sir.
I hope you, too, will consider posting your experience with religion in the link in my signature.
There is so much diversity among us who participate in this forum -

We need to listen to each other, weigh all of this stuff, and come to a consensus of some kind of common ground. From there, perhaps we can work TOGETHER to heal the awfulness of this world.
(star for you)
~wild

I was starting to think no one read my reply! I agree 100% that many of the problems with this world lay in our differences and distrust of the unknown! Before we can work together we need to come together in unity, honesty
and trust! all the awfulness as you put it comes from our own insecurities and fear! As long as fear is used to disseminate behavior the masses will put their trust in those that offer hope and security but there is nothing
in this world which can bring people together like a combined faith in God! A hope for peace beyond human understanding which only unconditional love can bring and one that transcends this world! Thank you for your reply and kind words!

reply to post by IBelieveInAliens


I don't know if God is all knowing and I doubt any of us does!
I do however believe in God but not because of any teachings or fear of death!

I believe because God has touched my life many times!
I believe because if I feel bad I can pray and feel better!
I believe because I should be dead or incarcerated or worse but for some reason that only god knows I am still here!
I believe because when I was in doubt I received several signs that only God could have provided!

As to your so called conversation with a Christian! I expect God is only displeased when we sin but fail to learn
from that sin! I expect that God cares for each of us and wants us to learn why these sins are wrong and that they hurt others! I try not to sin but am only human so I expect God understands that I am fallible!
It's easy to believe that there is no God and no adverse repercussions for us but only a fool would think we know what is out there, whether potent or omnipotent! I am not 100% sure that God exist but I don't need to be, I am secure in my faith that we are more then just molecules and electric, chemical impulses!
Are you 100% sure he's not real?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You call on God because you are full of fear.

We live in a scary universe where people really get hurt and suffer, where fear is the appropriate response.
God is someone who can help us when material people cannot.
The beast, as my personification of the material universe that we live in, does not care about us and would just as soon recycle your dead body. I differentiate that from God and understand the utter futility of worshipping it.
How you know what is Beast, and what is God, is that God is a person like us but spiritual, while the Beast is everywhere and everything but always material. That includes light, which is a material substance. Light, as a term, is metaphorical, and is not really about physical light, but is about spiritual things.

OK FFS, why can't everyone get this:

Faith, nor Miracles, nor God(s), nor Flying Spaghetti

Monsters CANNOT be factually proven nor dis-proven.

Never. Ever.


You all know this.


Faithers, your witness or whatever is yours alone, you cannot physically pull it out and show proof of it!
You can't argue God into someone's head. You can discuss, share, explain, but if the other person isn't into it you have wasted all that wear and tear to your keyboard. (I guess you could copy & paste to another forum...)

If you are baiting the opposition, think about this: Firstly, you're SINNING. Baiting another into anger/frustration for your own amusement is a sin, somehow, someway. Especially on internet forums. Secondly, WWJDBRO? I think he might get a little righteous indignation all over you, since your efforts are PUSHING AWAY potential soul saves.


Atheists: You can't disprove a person's internal feelings! Saying that there is no evidence is fundamentally flawed: You cannot prove a negative. Wasn't your own Flying Spaghetti Deity created to illustrate this very fact?

If you are baiting the opposition, think about this: If you are more evolved since you don't need the crutch of God, why do you taunt and bait people you deem lower than you? Would you let the tire air out of a paraplegic's wheelchair just to watch him get frustrated?

Isn't there enough bullschist going on in the world these days? If it isn't the gov't or some corp. trying to screw us, it's some random psycho with a bomb or a gun or a knife. Knowing that this argument never ends, and life is plenty full of negativity, why in the holy hell do we all get sucked into the stupidity over and over again?!?!

reply to post by blamethegreys

. . . CANNOT be factually proven nor dis-proven. . . . .

I cannot prove to you that God is real.
God can prove to me that He is real.
I know that because God did prove it to me.
(not that I doubted, or needed 'proof', circumstances sort of forced the issue)
I cannot prove that to you, so, sorry about that.
You may want to ask God yourself.
That might help.

reply to post by jmdewey60


That's exactly what I am saying.

reply to post by IBelieveInAliens


if theres no God why do you feel your answeres are more correct than others? u would be just as much of an accident as them because your brain was just an accident. therefore you cannot rely on the information coming from it. do you think bats know what light is? if they cant even see it, they must not know it exists. so how can we even sit here and discuss god without a feeling of him? It shouldnt even be a though in your accidentaly made head. no animals practice religion for a reason. thats what seperates man from them (amongst many other reasons were different).