Civil War in Venezuela

Im surprised Hugo Chavez's death wasn't bigger news..

Only 1 evening of coverage.

reply to post by CALGARIAN


In Latin America it was. In fact the amount of times Muduro mentions Chavezs name you would think that he was not dead

Originally posted by maythetruthbeknown
reply to post by frazzle

 

These sites are both biased towards the PSUV . A question for you.. If there was not any manipulation of the votes why was a recount not allowed and why were the ballots destroyed??

All I can say is that it reminds me of the past two Mexican elections when vote fraud obviously took place and ballots were destroyed causing widespread dissatisfaction AMONG THE PEOPLE. The corporate puppet wins again and again and the people suffer. No offense to you at all, all I can say is that I'm tired of the dog and pony shows.

There is NOTHING unbiased when it comes to elections. Even in our own (US) elections, we all know vote fraud and election fraud regularly happen and the biggest donor's hand picked choices always prevail.

But whenever you see stuff like this ...

As the polls have closed across the country, the Twitter account of the Venezuela presidential hopeful Nicolas Maduro has been compromised by the Lulz Security Peru hacktivist group. Two official websites have been brought down as well.

The official’s twitter account was filled with vulgar messages in which @lulzsecperu claimed responsibility for the successful attack.

rt.com...

... you know outsiders are gaming the election for fun and profit.

reply to post by frazzle


Yes his twitter account got hacked. I covered this in one of my other threads. However in response to this the internet got shut down. They said it was only for 3 minutes but it was for an hour. There were lots of irregularities that day. Social networking is very big in Venezuela. There were lots of reports of intimidation and shootings on twitter which have since been removed.
I am guessing/assuming you were a Chavez supporter and in all honesty if I had not lived there and seen the reality I probably would be too. I mean who doesnt like someone that sticks two fingers up at the corporations.

As in so many cases you only get half truths and you need to see it yourself to make your own mind up.

Thanks for your comments

Originally posted by maythetruthbeknown
reply to post by frazzle

 

Yes his twitter account got hacked. I covered this in one of my other threads. However in response to this the internet got shut down. They said it was only for 3 minutes but it was for an hour. There were lots of irregularities that day. Social networking is very big in Venezuela. There were lots of reports of intimidation and shootings on twitter which have since been removed.
I am guessing/assuming you were a Chavez supported and in all honesty if I had not lived there and seen the reality I probably would be too. I mean who doesnt like someone that sticks two fingers up at the corporations.

As in so many cases you only get half truths and you need to see it yourself to make your own mind up.

Thanks for your comments

Well shoot, half truths are everywhere you go and on almost every possible topic but if you lean towards MSM's reporting, at least in the US, the corporate puppets always get the limelight and the opposition gets ridicule. I think that's the dividing line for me, lie to me once and all that .... the US government, and by extension US MSM, hated Chavez and they hate Maduro. Just as they hated Mexico's Obrador and so many other national leaders who want to run their own show. There's a reason for that, its called hegemony. Disagree enough and we'll send in the bombers.

Living somewhere, even full time for a lifetime doesn't give one a full understanding of the other side of the argument so like you said, we need to make up our own minds and I understand that yours is made up based on your experiences. I can respect that even if I disagree.

Ok im just a dumbass but does anyone see the irony in banging (pressure)pans?

We protest peacufull by banging pans.

I hope for the citizens of Venezuela it will be kept peacefull

We protest peacufull by banging pans

reply to post by Dumbass


It was more a show of solidarity and in my opinion a lot better than firing shots into the air as has happened on many occasions when Chavez won.

Living somewhere, even full time for a lifetime doesn't give one a full understanding of the other side of the argument so like you said, we need to make up our own minds and I understand that yours is made up based on your experiences. I can respect that even if I disagree

reply to post by frazzle


I respect your opinion as well. It just angers me to see a whole country divided my political ideals. If Chavez had given back to the country, improved the standard of living and reduced the crime rate then he would of had my support. However that was not the case and instead hatred and jealousy has been created.

We are all human ,and unless psychopathic all want what is best for our fellow man. When we just learn to get along and not be plagued by the trapping of control and greed?

one day...................

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


I know, it was just because I've just been readin a thread about pressurepans uses in boston and I opened this thread. I applaude the non violent protest.

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


The USA are undecided whether to accept Maduro unless there is a recount. For once I agree with them.

"We think there ought to be a recount," Secretary of State John Kerry told U.S. lawmakers. "Obviously, if there are huge irregularities, we are going to have serious questions about the viability of that government ... I'm not sure that's over yet." Maduro responded by accusing Washington of directly supporting the Venezuelan right-wing "like never before" in a war against the people and Chavez's revolution.

uk.news.yahoo.com...

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


news.yahoo.com...

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuela's Supreme Court president said Wednesday there is no legal basis for holding a vote-by-vote recount that opposition candidate Henrique Capriles is demanding for the disputed presidential election.


arrrrrrrrrrrrrr keep getting timed out and losing what I typed

reply to post by Hopechest

Yet another little South American country who can't seem to govern themselves without violence. Put a fence around the country, drop a ton of weapons in there, and see who comes out on top.

Hmmmmm... All I can say is I am really glad you are not in a position of power... Or maybe you are in charge of Americas foreign policy..

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown

I respect your opinion as well. It just angers me to see a whole country divided my political ideals. If Chavez had given back to the country, improved the standard of living and reduced the crime rate then he would of had my support. However that was not the case and instead hatred and jealousy has been created.

We are all human ,and unless psychopathic all want what is best for our fellow man. When we just learn to get along and not be plagued by the trapping of control and greed?

one day...................

The amazing irony about the increased crime rate in Venezuela is this little gem:

Caracas’ strategy for dealing with this alarming crime has focused during the last years of Chávez’s reign on seizing weapons from civilians. In 2011, the government destroyed a reported 50,000 confiscated guns. (The weapons were melted to produce some 60 tons of iron utilized in public housing projects.) The post-2011 numbers show, however, that this failed to do much to ameliorate the crime rate — and in any case, Venezuela is riddled with black markets for weapons trafficking, a situation worsened by the fact that the country is next to Colombia, which makes it fairly easily for criminals to obtain guns.

blogs.blouinnews.com...

That was truly a mistake on Chavez' part. So do you think the US will learn anything from it? Nah.

He did, however improve the standard of living as documented at the wiki link below, but paying off Venezuela's debt to the IMF and World Bank didn't earn Chavez much love from the IMF, World Bank and their various arms.

Chávez announced Venezuela's withdrawal from the International Monetary Fund and World Bank after paying back all his country's debts to both institutions; he charged them with being an imperial tool that aims to exploit poor countries, news sources reported. But as of March 2008, Venezuela is still a member of both institutions.[75][76]

en.wikipedia.org...

Follow the money. Your "one day" (and mine) won't come until the people of the world learn that money issued by private bankers as a public debt is an insane idea and then work together to get rid of the psychopaths who promote and profit from indebting us all.

reply to post by frazzle


Shortly after the first election people who voted against Chavez had their firearms licence revoked or were unable to renew it. Everyone in Venezuela must carry their id at all times and give their id number when buying any item.
Obviously all this information is collected and used against the citizens

For the right price nothing is that hard to get in Venezuela. There is a lot of corruption. What Chavez needed to do was provide education, jobs and a welfare system. He did not. Millions were given to Bolivia and Cuba.

Do you think the majority of the violent crimes are committed by the middle class Chavez wanted to get rid of.?

Or instead are they committed by pro Chavistas who have a green light to commit such crimes knowing that they will almost certainly get away with it?

They even banned violent toys and video games..... You cant even buy toy soldiers in the shops any more.. Like that was going to help.

When living there I spoke to people from all walks of life. For some reason they like the English and even though I am not keen on him mentioning David Beckham has got me out of a few scrapes.
Some elements in society feel they have been mistreated and think it is ok to take someones life for a few dollars.

Chavez and Maduro alike are aiming for the Cuban model ie Rich few , no middle class and a lot of poor and uneducated for 2 main reasons greed and control.

The freedoms are being slowly eradicated and although some see the basic ideology of socialism to be good , in reality it is far from it.

Chavez was a dictator. He left Venezuela divided and in chaos, and Maduro is like his little clone. Maduro is a lunatic, he says that Chavez spoke to him in the form of a bird, and in pamphlets that were passed out about him leading up to the election said that voting for him 'ensures the survival of the human race'. Venezuela is slowly descending into chaos, Maduro's government is a defacto dictatorship now after denying a recount, burning the ballots and ordering the arrest of Caprilles. There is nothing good about neither Maduro nor Chavez

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


Its clear that you and I take our information from different sources and we'll probably have to disagree on some things. The only sources I found berating the alleged suppression of the middle class in Venezuela under Chavez was from New American types of decidedly right wing publications. Those are not exactly anti-corporatist.

IMO, nothing has ever been as misconstrued as the term "middle class". Its the same in the US where, for tax and media purposes, giant corporations dub themselves "small business" while enjoying all the tax perks and loopholes available only to BIG business.

But .... since I don't live in Venezuela and almost certainly never will, I'll just leave such things to the people who DO live there and hopefully can make their choices stick. It would be easier for them to do that without outside interference from people with an agenda ~ like that will ever happen.

reply to post by NightFlyer96


reply to post by NightFlyer96

Chavez was a dictator. He left Venezuela divided and in chaos, and Maduro is like his little clone. Maduro is a lunatic, he says that Chavez spoke to him in the form of a bird, and in pamphlets that were passed out about him leading up to the election said that voting for him 'ensures the survival of the human race'. Venezuela is slowly descending into chaos, Maduro's government is a defacto dictatorship now after denying a recount, burning the ballots and ordering the arrest of Caprilles. There is nothing good about neither Maduro nor Chavez

While I agree with you in the most part , taking the assets back from the corporations was in my opinion a good thing.
Maduro won using Chavezs Cult status not on his own merits.

He is hardly the sharpest tool in the box. He did not know which were states and which were cities. Also yesterday when talking about a clinic he compared the equipment to Nasa and asked the doctor to check his heart with a telescope You couldnt make it up

Originally posted by NightFlyer96
Chavez was a dictator. He left Venezuela divided and in chaos, and Maduro is like his little clone. Maduro is a lunatic, he says that Chavez spoke to him in the form of a bird, and in pamphlets that were passed out about him leading up to the election said that voting for him 'ensures the survival of the human race'. Venezuela is slowly descending into chaos, Maduro's government is a defacto dictatorship now after denying a recount, burning the ballots and ordering the arrest of Caprilles. There is nothing good about neither Maduro nor Chavez

edit on 17-4-2013 by NightFlyer96 because: Spelling

And .... speaking of insane

God told me to invade Iraq, Bush tells Palestinian ministers - BBC

Oct 6, 2005 ... President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, ...

www.bbc.co.uk...

At least the bird didn't tell Maduro to invade or kill anyone.

reply to post by frazzle


reply to post by frazzle


Just had a nice long reply typed out but it timed out...How annoying.......

I am enjoying this debate with you and yes we will have to agree to disagree on some things. However if you were to ask almost any educated Venezuelan they will almost certainly say the same things.

As you may or may not be aware there is an exchange control in Venezuela .
A US dollar is work 6.3 Bolivar Fuerte (official rate)
Black market rate is between 21-23.

If someone wants to go abroad they have to apply to get dollars or they can buy on the black market for a much higher rate. There is a limit on how much you are allowed and it can be refused. Bolivar can not be changed up in other countries.

Inflation is out of control. A lot of products are imported and because of the exchange control businesses do not want to set up in Venezuela

If you have any questions for my wife I will be happy to ask her

reply to post by frazzle


If you look at my other thread about the cult of Chavez here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

there are a few links in it and it explains a little more too.

Maduro has now mentioned Chavez in speeches 7401 times. The only reason he supposedly won was not due to his own merits but the cult figure of Chavez .

www.madurodice.com...