Pianist Sentenced For Insulting Islam

reply to post by jiggerj

Life of atheists: Love hard, laugh hard, explore all the wonders and secrets of the universe because this is our one and only life.

No, life of atheists is built on a well internalised lie which is against their own human nature, loving hard and laughing hard is good but not so good if its used to drown the tiny voice asking questions, "what about justice?" "are we just glorified animals?"
To make peace within themselves they(not all) have to look down upon theists and praise themselves "at least we are better than them!"

reply to post by jiggerj


Well, there is actually an Easter Bunny, but can't really debate you on the other two points. Just wanted to stick up for the poor old Easter Bunny, these days he's just so misunderstood! And Santa Claus? Don't get me started!

reply to post by ChuckNasty

So you are for the pianist being jailed... Grats. Way to stay ignorant. The religion of peace needs to be renamed the religion of understanding. Should also be renamed the religion that practices what they preach...one of them preachings being that it is a sin to kill a Muslim...which they never do...unless them Muslims don't follow the imam as You do. Grats again on giving all Muslims a bad rep. You should feel proud... A person being jailed for speaking his/her mind shouldn't be jailed if they don't hurt anyone. Worse case, they should of deported him. But then again, we are all supposed to be understanding in the way of Islam, the religion of worldly peace. As long as that world follows the same Islam as you. Bet if he hit his women and demanded his daughters stayed at home and didn't attend school, he'd be a model 'man' in society. If you need links to more acts of freedom, click the sig. link. God bless.

you are a master of assumptions! Charles taught me a nice word 'straw man.'
you may feel self satisfied in the assumptions you make about muslims but they being really true or not are not your concern or am i wrong and you have tried to find what Islam really is before making your opinions?

Freedom of thought/expression without the responsiblity/dicipline can be a disaster.

There is a difference between freedom to express one's opinion even if its insulting and freedom to just insult with intention of insulting.

Freedom of expression is great but its not so good to abuse it for shallow ends. That just becomes a tool of intolerant people to spread hate and then look like they are innocent victims.

reply to post by logical7

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

Freedom of expression is great but its not so good to abuse it for shallow ends. That just becomes a tool of intolerant people to spread hate and then look like they are innocent victims.

I dunno... you call me naive or whatever, but giving a guy ten months for mocking religion on Twitter sounds pretty intolerant to me. Over here in the UK, a student got two months (served one) for saying some racist stuff on Twitter... about a footballer whose life was hanging by a thread. Personally, I disagree with that too.

If people are so sensitive about their religion being mocked (when it's also the state and majority religion), it begs quite a few questions.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by logical7

 

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

Freedom of expression is great but its not so good to abuse it for shallow ends. That just becomes a tool of intolerant people to spread hate and then look like they are innocent victims.

I dunno... you call me naive or whatever, but giving a guy ten months for mocking religion on Twitter sounds pretty intolerant to me. Over here in the UK, a student got two months (served one) for saying some racist stuff on Twitter... about a footballer whose life was hanging by a thread. Personally, I disagree with that too.

If people are so sensitive about their religion being mocked (when it's also the state and majority religion), it begs quite a few questions.

i am not in favour of any punishment for (ab)using freedom of expression. I am also not in favour of saying hateful things and then hiding behind freedom.
Fazil Say got a suspended sentence also he is a critic of the present turkish government and the PM. so easily it can be a political motive behind it while religion takes the blame.

reply to post by logical7



I do agree to an extent, but still feel that people should be allowed to say whatever is on their mind. That way, we know where everyone stands.

As for that suspended sentence, I didn't miss it. Who's to say (if this is a political move as you suspect) that the sentence isn't thrown out at the due time, just for the sake of spite?

reply to post by logical7

No, life of atheists is built on a well internalised lie

LOL That's just not true. Clearly, we will never see eye to eye. If you were to remove the word 'atheists' from your statement and replace it with 'believers in a god' it would make perfect sense to me.

reply to post by charles1952

Hey Charles. Sorry for the delay in reply, I've been a bit busy.

Originally posted by charles1952
The part that bothered some voters was their belief that Obama was not being honest in order to improve his chances for election. If true, I might vote against him simply on the basis of dishonesty.

Thanks for your answer, Charles, it makes sense that for an American president, upholding the constitution would be the most important (except when they end up amending it, but whatever ). and religious beliefs shouldn't really enter into the equation. Unfortunately, they do, and if you truly vote with such commitment, you'd be in a minority. As evidenced, part of the presidential (and I imagine state) elections involve both candidates trying to "out-religion" the other, showing how much they believe in God, involving their ministers, etc. The idea that Obama might've been dishonest about his religion in an attempt to gain votes is at worst a ridiculous slur against him, and at best an indication of the state of affairs, where a person's religion, rather than political stance, is what matters.

Do you believe Obama is a secret muslim?
Do you believe a muslim, by virtue of being a good muslim, would somehow not fulfill the criteria you set out in your response, more so than a Catholic or a Jew or a Hindu might not?

reply to post by babloyi

Dear babloyi,

Take all the time you want. I will always welcome a post from you, whenever it arrives. I only hope that I am able to treat it with the thoroughness and respect you have earned. Know that I will always try.

As evidenced, part of the presidential (and I imagine state) elections involve both candidates trying to "out-religion" the other, showing how much they believe in God, involving their ministers, etc.

I think that is unfortunate, but understandable for a couple of reasons. (Though they may not be good reasons.) Politicians like to show people that they're "just like folks." Remember that the argument against Romney wasn't based on his policies, but on the idea that he was so rich that he was "out of touch" with the voters. Remember also how quickly the White House came out with a picture showing Obama firing a gun. That was to show he wasn't "out of touch." There are too many religious American voters for a politician to brag that he isn't one of them.

A possible second reason is that if a candidate says he is completely wedded to his religious values, the population may think "Well, then, he probably won't steal, lie, kill, covet, or any of the other bad things, whatever I think of his policies."

The idea that Obama might've been dishonest about his religion in an attempt to gain votes is at worst a ridiculous slur against him, and at best an indication of the state of affairs, where a person's religion, rather than political stance, is what matters.

Dear babloyi, I'm afraid I've confused you. In fact, I believe the problem is neither. Romney was clear that he was a Mormon from the start. He did take a little heat for it (the "out of religious touch" idea), but no one seems to think it was crippling. Obama? In his writings and behavior he dropped several clues that he had Muslim leanings, but he also said he was Christian. But he was the kind of Christian that spent decades at the Rev. Wright's church, hating America. There is honest confusion about what he is. He created the impression of being "shifty" on the subject. Since Nixon, that has been a bad thing.

Do you believe Obama is a secret muslim?

I honestly don't know. That in itself bothers me. I just don't have enough solid information to know, so I've let that issue slip. Besides, there are other reasons to disapprove of him, if one is so inclined.

Do you believe a muslim, by virtue of being a good muslim, would somehow not fulfill the criteria you set out in your response, more so than a Catholic or a Jew or a Hindu might not?

I'm sorry to sound repetitive, but again I don't know. I think Muslims are all over the map. Some close to sainthood, others close to demonic monstrosities. Same with other religions, I suppose.

What I would worry about first is how does a candidate feel about the Constitution? What does Free Speech, and Freedom of Religion mean to him. Many Muslims feel that those should not be controlling laws in any society. If he were to be one of those, I would oppose him because of his beliefs.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
Obama? In his writings and behavior he dropped several clues that he had Muslim leanings, but he also said he was Christian. But he was the kind of Christian that spent decades at the Rev. Wright's church, hating America. There is honest confusion about what he is. He created the impression of being "shifty" on the subject. Since Nixon, that has been a bad thing.

I don't quite see how the confusion is "honest". Perhaps people very out of touch who only watch Fox News and actually thought Trump was a viable candidate were "honestly confused" about his religion, although most of those were pretty ignorant anyway (I'm reminded of the woman from the 2008 elections who asked McCain about Obama being an arab). Obama has said he's christian. It would only be his detractors and competitors who have a vested interest in sowing confusion and doubt about him. Under Obama, the drone attacks in several muslim countries have intensified, with loads of civilian casualties. Specific assassination hits have gone out against specific muslims, even american citizens, with no due process. While Obama is certainly not a Conservative Christian, he is definitely not a muslim. While he may be SLIGHTLY more inclined to listen to the muslim side (although that is probably a negligible amount, see above with the drones and killings), do you consider that a bad thing?

update

Pianist Fazil Say has won an appeal against his sentence .

His case goes to a retrial .

Remedy in action .

reply to post by babloyi

Dear babloyi,

I seem to be getting worse and worse at satisfying you. I'm sorry for that. Here's where I was trying to go.

Obama's close relationship to Rev. Wright had him listening to, and apparently accepting the "God Damn America" theme. I don't know of any Christian group that would call that an orthodox position. As President, he is very rarely in a church. When he spoke at Notre Dame, he ordered the crosses covered up. All of this makes people wonder about his religion. It doesn't seem to be any I recognize.

Those positions may be Atheist, Muslim, or they may be something else. I realize he says he's Christian, but he's said a lot of other things for political purposes which turned out to be false. I don't know what he is, but that is not crucial to me. It may be for others, though.

I'm perfectly happy if he listens to everybody, of course I expect that his State Department would be the ones doing the listening, but by all means gain any information you can.

With respect,
Charles1952

Hey Charles!
reply to post by charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
Obama's close relationship to Rev. Wright had him listening to, and apparently accepting the "God Damn America" theme. I don't know of any Christian group that would call that an orthodox position. As President, he is very rarely in a church. When he spoke at Notre Dame, he ordered the crosses covered up.

Whatever Rev. Wright may have been, he certainly wasn't a muslim, so I'm not sure how that is relevant- Obama disavowed him and his church anyhow. Or is Islam grouped up with "all the other 'God Damn America' theme" religions? If you ask me, he's obviously not a conservative or even a very active christian, but again, he had to emphasise that to get elected, because America. After that, he believes in separation of Church and State, and doesn't want to "advocate" any one religion over any other.

reply to post by babloyi

Dear babloyi,

You're absolutely right. I don't think anybody believes Rev. Wright is a Muslim. I brought that up to indicate that he doesn't act or sound like any Christian I've ever heard of. If President Obama was comfortable listtening to Wright's preaching for decades, that indicates to to me that Obama is unlike any Christian I know about.

So, all I'm saying is Obama doesn't look like a normal Christian, or an Atheist, or a Muslim. What is he? I'm not sure. I think a lot of people aren't entirely sure either. That's why I'm talking about honest doubt, and the impression that we don't really know for sure.

With respect,
Charles1952