Breaking Free from the Occult – For those with eyes that see

Originally posted by SubAce

At that time he clearly understood the falsehood of the Trinity doctrine, that Jesus was God, he also did away with the pagan hellfire doctrine that stems from Babylon, and the Immortality of the soul, the backbone of all false religion that stems from her mother Babylon.

That should read: "...that Jesus was NOT God."

I didn't notice the error until it was too late to edit my post, so I am adding the edit here.

reply to post by SubAce


Well according to the bible Jehovah did destroy and ruin. For god to be jealous is pathetic he should be bigger than that it is a human trait. Do you destroy the life you created? If he created us and supposed to be all knowning then he would of seen all that was going to happen to where we are today and made allowances.No he keeps destroying men with more destruction to come.Nice god

Originally posted by celticdog
reply to post by SubAce

 

Well according to the bible Jehovah did destroy and ruin. For god to be jealous is pathetic he should be bigger than that it is a human trait. Do you destroy the life you created? If he created us and supposed to be all knowning then he would of seen all that was going to happen to where we are today and made allowances.No he keeps destroying men with more destruction to come.Nice god

And it's only the most incorrigble and reprehensible people. And he always warns them. And he is always trying to get them to repent.

To call the good God evil for getting rid of wickedness is stupid.

Once again the world is full of evil and violence and crass vileness of all sorts. You would have him ignore the pain and suffering and misery that disgusting evil men perpetuate on themselves, but the merciful and patient God has his limits. And in this time he has also raised up witnesses for himself to tell the truth to the people. He is warning all mankind to repent from the evilness that permeates society. He will not act until they have been warned.

And even then, when he does bring Armageddon, he is not the instigator. The Bible is very clear that it will be Satan who manipulates the world rulers into attacking Jehovah's people, who are peaceful and defenseless. They cannot protect themselves.

In order to act to save the righteous meek ones he will have to move into action. And then he will once again destroy all wickedness, and there is no one that will be able to do as you and claim that his getting rid of wicked people so that peaceful righteous people may live in peace is evil.

True he has allowed his servants to suffer and even die at the hands of evildoers. But when all of his people are under attack he will not let his named people be effaced from the surface of the earth:

(2 Thessalonians 1:6-8) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.


How beautiful and merciful a God Jehovah is:

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .And Jehovah went passing by before his face and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth, 7 preserving loving-kindness for thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but by no means will he give exemption from punishment, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”


You should take the time to read the book of Jonah. You will learn a lesson about his kindness and his mercy toward wayward violent evil wicked people.

Turn back your hatred toward Jehovah. He wishes no one to perish:

(Ezekiel 18:23) . . .“‘Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘[and] not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?’

And yet you complain when he acts against people when they become so bad and vile they are past all sense of morales as being evil and wicked. And yet you know he permits wickedness to an extreme degree. You know this because once again the world has become full of suffering and badness to an extreme degree and still he has not acted, but has lovingly been warning wicked violent men who hate each other to repent, or did you not know why he has not brought the end yet?:

(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

As far as him being able to know all. That does not mean he chooses to do so. You limit his ability because your human mind cannot fathom the depths of his knowledge, or the abilities he possesses.

God has given all mankind and all his spirit creatures freewill. In so doing he has chosen not to foresee how we turn out. Thus he gives us dignity to act. And he has the hope that each of his intelligent creatures uses their freewill to love him willingly not out of compulsion, but because he created us and he is a humble God full of mercy and slow to anger. That is why he tell us:

(Proverbs 27:11) . . .Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.

Jehovah has hope in you as a person as well. He can see past your ignorance and hatred, even of him. He is big enough to take it. And he is patient enough to try and teach you so that you come to your senses. He is willing if you are humble enough.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by SubAce

 

Man, those false witness testimonies can be smelled from a mile away. For crying out loud, the guy giving it couldn't even keep his deities straight nor use the correct spelling of his tools. This is just like those other guys in church who have a story like "I used to be in a biker gang. Maaaaan, it was bad. REAL bad. I was passed out in the toilet after smoking too much heroin and shooting up the pot when it happened. I saw Jeeeezussss."

Making up testimonies and spreading false information about the beliefs and lifestyles of others is a hallmark tradition with those kind of zealots. My issue isn't with your religion but with false stories like that guy had.

Yes, Lord knows there is enough truth out there about it. Dont need some guy going around making up stories and telling lies considering truth is much much stranger than fiction.

reply to post by SubAce


How is Jehovah merciful when he kills a guy for spilling his seed. Jehovah's witnesses is like any other religion with sexual abuse (one girl awarded 23million just recently). Jehovah let his people in malawi get raped and tarred and feathered because your leaders said they couldn't sign a card but they let the mexicans sign a similar political card. The Watchtower were also part of the UN as an NGO in 1992 I guess Jehovah said to your leaders it was ok to join political institution

They were also kind of racist not as much as mormans and all this proves it is a man made religion.
In an effort to provide encouragement for the World's blacks, the Watchtower Society gave hope that they can become white in an article entitled: "Restitution Can Change The Ethiopian's Skin". The story is about a person whose skin color changed--today we know this person was suffering from Vitiligo. The Watchtower reported that this is the third case they have seen, and this suggested to them "the process of restitution [is] soon due." The story "From Black to White He Slowly Turned" they took as a miracle from God, and it vividly illustrates their racists beliefs and their teaching that in the new world, all blacks would turn white.

Have you ever thought that your perception could be way off because you refer to god as male. You are just going by the bible that was written men and also how you are taught by the watchtower who you think are inspired and regard as royality when they are nothing of the sort because they change their mind on loads doctrines. Witnesses have also predicted the end of the world many times. I guess they are getting it all wrong and just making it all up. No true god and no truth their mate

Originally posted by SubAce

This whole thing is almost certainly based on fanatical belief, delusion and superstition, unless you can genuinely show otherwise. Claiming your religion as an unimpeachable source does nothing to alleviate this.

I would recommned you start at this website for accurate and true information on Jehovah's Witnesses:

It would be fairer to say that site gives an accurate view of how Jehova's Witnesses wish to portray themselves.....

Yet many of their practices are consistent with what some professionals and observers have termed "mind control" not uncommon in such fanatical groups. Including the relationship and views concerning "apostates" and those they deem worthy of shunning. IMO it is just another delusional apocalyptic sect based on what is mythology to begin with (Christianity) and offering no more to verify it's "truth" than Marshall Applewhite and the Heavens Gate offer.

The scriptures/pseudo spiritual wisdom/inane biblical babble is simply an effort to dress a make believe deity in clothes, without which no one can see him, because he doesn't exist outside of the psyche of the afflicted.

Though like most of these groups, individually they do seem nice otherwise normal intelligent people. As no doubt you probably also are. Which shows (and is well known) that nice normal and intelligent people can also become deluded quite easily. For or a group claiming to have god's truth, they make an awful lot of blunders. The excuses seem an exercise in overcoming cognitive dissonance.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
It would be fairer to say that site gives an accurate view of how Jehova's Witnesses wish to portray themselves.....

Well, we portray ourselves as we are. So that is true. We just want the truth to be known. If you are interested in knowing the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses feel free to ask me, visit a local Kingdom Hall or the jw website.

At that website we have all our beliefs published free for all to see. Actually it is from these publications that all our meetings are based. So, if it is as you say and we brainwash people, then surely you'll find ample evidence at that website. In fact all of the publications there are available free for download, and we also take them to your house for free.

I am sure, out of all of the publications there you can surely find evidence of your accusations against us. In fact I would encourage you to prove yourself by going their and perhaps showing me from our magazines, or videos, or brochures, or books, that we use as study aids at our meetings, your point. I am sure interested to see if you can back up your claims with proof from what we teach and what we study at our meetings. I am sure you are confident you are able to. So can you meet this challenge?

Here is the webpage you can find our publications at:

www.jw.org...

If that does not have enough information for you to prove your accusations (which I really consider slander and false) feel free to go to our more extensive online Library here:

wol.jw.org...

Imagine you have at your fingertips everything we use to teach and preach, and all of our beliefs. How easy it will be for you, if you are being honest and truthful, for you to use these tools now to back up your claims.

Originally posted by celticdog
reply to post by SubAce

 

Have you ever thought that your perception could be way off because you refer to god as male. You are just going by the bible that was written men and also how you are taught by the watchtower who you think are inspired and regard as royality when they are nothing of the sort because they change their mind on loads doctrines. Witnesses have also predicted the end of the world many times. I guess they are getting it all wrong and just making it all up. No true god and no truth their mate

Yes I have thought about Jehovah God referring to himself in the male gender. I have thought about these things much more than you can imagine apparently. But what good would it do to tell you? I doubt you are going to listen. Jehovah is a merciful God. Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely not racist. There may be individuals who were at one time racists who have become Jehovah's Witnesses, and perhaps some of them may struggle with their wicked tendencies, but we are not racists.

I know this for a fact serving in the different countries, and traveling and seeing what I have seen among ourselves, including International Conventions where you may have people from over 30 countries all speaking different languages meeting together in unity and love.

I really do not have a lot of time. I respect you. You have a lot of wrong information about us, and it looks like it will take a lot of time to undo the wrong perceptions you have of us.. I am willing to give it to you if you are sincere, but I cannot waste it arguing. Let me know if you are sincere in the questions you ask and I'd be happy to continue our conversations. If not that is fine too. We shake the dust off our feet and continue on. There are many people, many people left to talk to.

(John 13:35) By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”

reply to post by SubAce


If Jehovah does not like lies then why would he have his followers tell people that the generation that saw 1914 will not die then the end will come for decades maybe 50 years or more. Now that doctrines is changed so basically you told lies to people. It so happens that everyone from then is dead so it is kind of convenient that the doctrine changed. So either god told them to do this or your leaders made it up.
There are sex scandals in your religion lots of them. I have a personal stake in this my cousin was raped by a Jehovah's Witness. So you should check out the girl from California that got awarded 23mil.She only wanted 144000 but the jury gave her more. So your religion is not all what you perceive it to be. The same programming around the world allows you to go every where because mormons(Rothschild funded them also) claim the same thing.
Why are you trying to convert people here are you trying to count this towards your preaching work.

I suppose you will spin this so you are right and I am wrong. Even if I am right you will deny it because you dont want your little bubble to be burst. Actually do some reseacher on your own religion and its history because you will you will wonder why you were a JW. It is not god inspired it is man made with freemason connections and Russel was a freemason.(Rothschild funded them, Russel was a friend to them.He wrote to the Rothschild's praising their efforts to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine) I dare you to google it and read about it.Did you know the first president of the watchtower was a banker named William H. Conley.Dont turn a blind eye to the truth.

reply to post by celticdog


Don't worry I've done my research. Unfortunately you are trying to play it as if I haven't, as if you know me, which you are clearly showing you don't (even though you pretend in front of all that you do) and now you have really answered my question, if you are sincere and want the truth or not. I respect your decision to not see it. Everything you have presented could easily be ripped to shreds, but that is not the purpose of the truth. It is to give food to those hungry, and are appreciative of it. Soon enough everything will be revealed to those not wanting to open their eyes.

I mean no offense but I will assume this scripture applies to you for now on. Matthew 7.6 and Luke 10:10, 11.

reply to post by SubAce


If you can point out where I have been demonstrably and factually false, malicious or unduly personal or provocative please do and I will consider a retraction. Otherwise your harping about slander seems simply an attempt at stifling opinion not in line with your claims, rather than confronting them. An attempt to halt free speech and fair debate (which seems the principle these boards and most democracies operate under).

In the meantime try not to take it personally or feel I dislike yourself or the people that make up your organisation. This is not true. It doesn't seem unreasonable to offer a counter to your spiritual claims. There does seem plenty of "counter" to offer.

I can back up everything I have written here. Including the opinions of professionals and also including those who were involved in the movement itself, all freely available in the public domain as you are probably well aware. Would you really like me to? It might hijack your thread a little. Though I have the feeling you might discount it immediately as the work of ungodly "apostates".

Your insistence that I limit myself only to literature that you pre-approve of is a ridiculously biased form of censorship, this attitude itself goes someway to proving my point.

I have little time for the bible itself, let alone your interpretation. IMO it is simply based on the delusions of illiterate 1st century peasants. If the bible were given a spiritual enema, perhaps the only thing left would be a condensed version of Christ's teachings that might read something like....."try not to be an @ssh0le".

Though I truly do admire certain individuals who practice things such as Christianity with honesty and simplicity, (minus organisations and sects/denominations) even if I do disagree in essence. There is a certain bravery and rebelliousness that I admire, to be able to throw off the mental cages of attempted indoctrination and man made rules, yet still maintain the ability to think for themselves. In fact I have heard versions that seem beautiful and intelligent as well as humble, making many of my objections mute (even if I still don't believe it).

IMO it seems rare to find a person who is concurrently spiritual and religious. These things seem polar opposites. Usually they get caught up in organisations and the perceived fine print. The strict rules, the prohibitions and excommunications. Such as those that make them shun family members even husbands/wives in gods name, allow themselves to be used and subject to the whim of possibly vain and deluded men and their doctrines (instead of forging direct relationship with god, if he exists). Or that drain people of their financial and emotional resources. Or make people unnecessarily risk their lives (blood transfusions). All fine print/imaginary rules in an imaginary god's name.

If none of these things apply to your group, or even if some do and you know god requires it, good for you! If you know you have god on your side, good for you also! I think I will take leave of this thread, as it appears you are not interested in debate, as much as requiring that all simply uncritically submit to your unsubstantiated claims and beliefs. Ones that I feel have slightly less than one in a googleplex chance of having any substance, with far easier explanation for it all. One of many thousands of such beliefs. You might be better suited to a pulpit?

Good luck anyway.

reply to post by SubAce


So you did spin it just as I thought. I see you glossed over the generation change and the lies told to people for decades. Being a witness you are not allowed to question anything that comes from your leaders or else it will destroy your faith or actually exposed the lies that they have been telling you. You dont even debate anythng you just do the typical witness thing and change the subject and attack me personally because you know in your heart it is wrong. I dont know how old you are but you if have been telling people for years that the generation that saw 1914 will not die and armageddon will come and nothing happens. I am pretty sure you will feel duped and maybe it isnt the truth after all. But I bet most JW's just roll over and except it because if they leave they lose their friends and family. You cant rip what I say to shredds. Russel father was a freemason and his grave with the pyramid on it with freemason symbols is near a freemason lodge. What about the part of your 144000 that was still here on this earth that was suppose to get less but it went up to 11000 after your original leaders died off. They are making stuff up and changing things because it turns out it is wrong so they have to cover their butts to keep the delusion going.
People change things when they find out they are wrong naturally but religion seems to blame their followers for their mistakes to keep control and the brainwashing keeps them following blindly

Good luck with what you have it seems you have the only truth in the world and nothing is wrong with your church. Your leaders talk to god and direct his only people here on earth and the rest of the almost 7billion will die soon. It seems like a happy religion were you are going to be attacked soon too by all this evil because god wants you to suffer for his love and this includes losing family members.
Peace be with you.

An excellent article about breaking free from the Occult, who is behind it, and what steps need to be taken to do so:

Spirit Creatures - How the Affect Us

Some may paint the Devil as an imaginary being, and God as being a fable and a myth. But the Bible teaches us that they are real. And it also gives us reliable counsel on who they are, and how Satan continues to blind and mislead the entire inhabited earth:

(2 Corinthians 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

As these wicked spirit beings are in control of the earth and are actively waging war with Jehovah's servants (even as can be bared out in this thread, as various people try to come in and try to get the thread off course, talking instead about lies and slander) the protection that one needs against such ones is not fleshly but spiritual:

(Ephesians 6:12, 13) . . .because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. 13 On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, . . .

This suit of armor is spiritual protection. Just as a soldier puts on armor to protect themselves on the battlefield a servant of Jehovah is equipped to face them. Even provided with a weapon that brings into subjection all falsehood and lies:

(Ephesians 6:14-17) . . .Stand firm, therefore, with YOUR loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and with YOUR feet shod with the equipment of the good news of peace. 16 Above all things, take up the large shield of faith, with which YOU will be able to quench all the wicked one’s burning missiles. 17 Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,

reply to post by SubAce


Biblical "history" and anthropological history tend to disagree at almost every turn. The Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt. So the entire account of Moses and the freeing of the slaves never happened. Additionally, you've got your deities all mix-matched and crossed in ways which absolutely defy Egyptian sensibilities.

First, Rē, Amun, and Amun-Rē are not the same deity, nor were they active at the same time. Get ready, a lot of information coming at you in the next paragraphs:

Amun, on his own, is an ancient primordial figure representing the infinite space present before creation. The predominant mythology featuring Amun as himself is known as the Ogdoad, recorded and adhered to in Hermopolis during a portion of the Old Kingdom, roughly 2600-2100 BCE.

Rē, on his own, is the Supreme God of Heliopolis, and the progenitor of the Ennead mythology. Rē, as a solo figure was worshiped as the Sun itself, and thus as the provider and maintainer of all things which lived. This is vastly different from Amun, who only represented infinite space during this time. Rē's principle period of worship extended from Predynastic Egypt, into the Old Kingdom, and tapered out during the Middle Kingdom with the Hyksos domination. Roughly 3000-1700 BCE.

Finally, Amun-Rē is the composite deity of the New Kingdom of Egypt, roughly 1500-1000 BCE. The reason for the hyphenated title is because the New Kingdom saw, for the first time, the collective unification of the Priestly cast—who worshiped Amun—and the Royalty—who worshiped Rē. Amun-Rē, therefore, is a symbolic representation of the priests and the Pharaoh finally working in unison. A feat for sure, since it was brought on by the priests collecting enough wealth to rival the Pharaoh during the XVIII dynasty.

Now, since the Hebrews were actually imprisoned by the Babylonians during the New Kingdom when Amun-Rē was worshiped—the Babylonian Captivity—how exactly did Moses go about doing anything in Egypt which would have prominently figured Amun-Rē? All of their effort, at this time, was being spent on combating worship of Marduk, the Babylonian state-god who possessed many of the qualities Jehovah/YHVH came to embody later in history. In fact, it wasn't until the Persian conquest of Babylon that the Hebrews were released from captivity, and returned, not west toward Egypt, but north toward Canaan.

And that doesn't even take into account Thoth and the others whom were supposedly combated by Jehovah/YHVH.

Biblical "history" is a joke.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by SubAce

. Everyone has the right to worship the way they see fit

unless of course, you're a protestant and then you deserve to be fried. burning people for sins is bad. unless of course youre a protestant then you deserve to be fried. the inquisition was bad, unless of course you're a protestant then you deserve to be fried.

i think you missed something in your readings, horatio.

If there are so many words for God, why only use Jehovah?