Rubio says immigration plan not amnesty, amid conservative scrutiny

First and foremost, for any who may have missed it and in any way I've ever been vague or the least bit hedging in the past? I *AM NOT* a Republican.

I used to be. I'm technically registered as one ..although that may well change tomorrow morning. It's been something I've meant to do for awhile anyway, but this story is so infuriating that I think I'll make time this week, if not first thing to go get my registration changed and make that official rather than a To-Do list item.

Why so sore, you might ask?

Rubio told “Fox News Sunday” that anybody living illegally in the United States and attempting to get a visa would face a long list of qualifications, which includes paying taxes, a fine and an application fee as well as having a job and waiting for at least 10 years.

“That is not amnesty,” said Rubio, a Cuban-American considered a key member of the so-called bipartisan Gang of Eight. “Amnesty is the forgiveness of something.”

I'll tell him something. In MOST nations in the world, if I were to be caught living there as a fully undocumented and illegal immigrant, I'd absolutely call it amnesty to be allowed to remain in my home and job while then applying from where I set without having to leave.

Heck. in most nations I'd consider it a gift like Mana from Heaven to be caught and NOT do prison time. Most countries aren't so kind as to JUST deport someone.

“I know Sen. Rubio's heart is exactly right," Sessions told ABC’s “This Week.” "And I really respect the work of the Gang of Eight. But they have produced legislation ... that will give amnesty now, legalize everyone that's here effectively today. And then there's a promise of enforcement in the future."

Source

I placed this in breaking political because it is today that the 'great hope' for the Republican Party, as the GOP seems to see this man, is rationalizing a flip flop larger than any footwear one would see on a beach. The story is more about THAT than the fact the political establishment got everything it wanted while giving nothing of value up in return.

The story goes on to say that as part of this deal, Homeland Security has FIVE YEARS to make their targets of "90% apprehension rate" on the border. Awww.. Isn't that just cute? 1 year BEYOND the sitting President and into the term of ...who knows who it may be? 90% of what? They cannot begin to honestly estimate what is crossing right now.

I'll also note with a VERY STRONG emphasis, something else that is very important here!

- U.S. Border Patrol agents apprehended 463,382 individuals smuggled across the border, including 8,905 smugglers. (3,027 of the smugglers apprehended were deemed “deportable.”)

- U.S. Border Patrol agents apprehended 59,017 “Other Than Mexican” illegal aliens through October 7, 2010.

- Among the nations represented in apprehension statistics are the four countries currently on the State Department’s list of “State Sponsors of Terrorism,” Cuba (712), Iran (14), Syria (5) and Sudan (5), as well as Somalia (9), Afghanistan (9), Pakistan (37), Saudi Arabia (5) and Yemen (11).

- Overall, U.S. Border Patrol agents apprehended 663 “Aliens from Special Interest Countries.” These countries are deemed “special interest” because of their suspected ties to terrorism.

- The countries yielding the highest “Other Than Mexican” apprehensions include: Guatemala (18,406), El Salvador (13,723), and Honduras (13,580).

Source: Judicial Watch

This is NOT about *JUST* poor, unemployed Mexican citizens crossing the border. It's FAR more than just that and this is an OUTRAGE. This is the same stunt Reagan agreed to in good faith for the Amnesty of the 1980's. We've been rolled and trolled by Capital Hill once again and I don't care which side you're on. Republican or Democrat. We ALL got rolled this time.

The last time Congress enacted sweeping immigration reform was back in 1986. That bill, signed by Ronald Reagan, looked a lot like the proposals being put forward today. There was a path to citizenship for existing illegal immigrants, coupled with tighter border enforcement.

There was just one problem — the 1986 reform didn’t work. The law was supposed to put a stop to illegal immigration into the United States once and for all. Instead, the exact opposite happened. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the country soared, from an estimated 5 million in 1986 to 11.1 million today.

Source

As long as THESE SIGNS:



. . . Exist ANYWHERE in the United States, the border is OUT of control! Nothing should be a priority here outside of enforcement until denial of our OWN land to OUR use as Americans ENDS from the outright chaotic mess the borderlands have become!

Also, please, before anyone even suggests those signs don't exist and are not real, know you're calling me a liar directly. I SAW those signs and in fact, may well have seen that specific one. It looks like one at a small rest area West of Casa Grande on I-8.

5 YEARS they have to make a target for % on a number which can only be guessed at ...and while we hear left and right from rank and file border patrol agents that they are NOT effective and are NOT fully manned or staffed along the remote areas where the crossings are most commonly occurring now.


Lets never forget though, the OTM problem I quoted above. OTM = Other Than Mexican. We are at WAR. We've BEEN at war for 10+ years. Those we are fighting against really DO want to hit back and would LOVE to do that right here in our nation as we've done to theirs. Some may feel we deserve it. Some may even feel they'd be happy to see it happen.

NONE of those people should be INSIDE our own Government! ! If it isn't downright depraved indifference as that would suggest, then it's absolutely negligence and dereliction of their duties. The common defense of the United States is the FIRST AND FOREMOST purpose of the United States Congress. Immigration procedure and handling is a distant second to defense.

However you feel about Immigration and the migrants of Mexico, what is happening with this "Gang of Eight" B.S. is above and beyond all that. This is just outright harmful and injurious to the United States they swore an Oath to defend. They've failed....and now they're telling us it's raining as they relieve themselves over our heads.

Well... That isn't rain we're getting and it won't be hail people feel next out of them.

This compromise was the largest sell-out and proof there truly IS no difference between the parties anymore that I've seen in so blatant a way ion my near 40 years on this Earth. We've been sold out.....and I doubt they even got 30 pieces of silver for doing it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


After the Republicans showed their true colors by shutting out Ron Paul with the MSM, they realize that the Democrats are banking on TONS of votes from allowing illegals into the country. Therefore they are now coming to the table and trying to look compassionate. I call em sell outs! However, according to what I heard Rubio say, some of the requirements would be that during the 10 years, they could not collect welfare or any other benefits that regular American citizens currently have to fight for.............................not sure if I can believe that.

But on the bright side of things Wrabbit, I think the Progressives are on the same path as the Republicans were on, in that they are getting so out of control that even the Democrats are starting to distance themselves.........

All I have to say, is that Americans better prepare themselves for a total implosion of our country! I can promise everyone this,,,,,,,,,that when the SHTF, it won't make a damn bit of difference of what party you belong to! Because all of the elected officials will be safe in their underground bunkers while we fight and kill each other.........

Living in southern AZ for the last 10 years I see first hand what is happening on a daily basis. For those of you not living in a border state you don't even know half of what is going on because no one is telling the truth.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Rubio did exactly what his corporate handlers told him to do. Is that the GOP?....

Cheap labor in the US and corporate profits determines the current political model. Think it's gonna change with elections?

I don't think corporate agriculture could survive without illegal immigration and big ag has a powerful lobby as does all the big business that profit from cheap labor. How can that be changed?

What's the matter; don't you like capitalism?

The sad thing is that neither party is willing to do what needs to be done to protect our borders.

What are we paying the huge military budget on? It certainly isn't protecting our borders.

We really need a third party that will start looking out for the people of the U.S., end illegal immigration, cut back drastically on all immigration, and put the ICBs in check.

Both parties seem to be out to destroy the middle class.

- Among the nations represented in apprehension statistics are the four countries currently on the State Department’s list of “State Sponsors of Terrorism,” Cuba (712), Iran (14), Syria (5) and Sudan (5), as well as Somalia (9), Afghanistan (9), Pakistan (37), Saudi Arabia (5) and Yemen (11).

How many times have we been warned that the next terrorist group will come through Mexico.

The last figure I heard on the capture rate was something between 10, 15, and 25% on the generous side...But no one really knows..S&F
Pakistan (37), Saudi Arabia (5) and Yemen (11) glad all those countries and people like us....sigh

reply to post by olaru12

What, precisely do you figure this has to do with capitalism?? Assuming we've even seen anything close to that system in at least 15-20 years to compare anything with, this solves nothing for labor. Not one thing. That is also like the '86 amnesty. "It's all for the poor migrant worker." Yeah, my foot!

When the current illegals are suddenly legal then they will demand "fair wages" which is precisely what they HAD been hired to avoid. Hence. they will join the rest of us with no job and much larger issues than they have now with how this is set to happen.

Then the business that have come to depend on exploiting workers will patiently wait for the NEXT wave of illegals to come up so THEY can be hired at the dirt wages currently being paid to the ones who THINK this is some winning move for them.

I can't wait for them to realize how badly they got screwed with unemployment running in the neighborhood of 8% and going much higher depending on area and number being looked at within the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


No.... Everyone but the Politicians and some segments of Business lost today. Some think they may have won, but with the GOP holdouts now onboard? (which I doubt ever actually had been, now....Principle isn't negotiable overnight to this degree of flip) No one won among the average people.

............all the while, we have no CLUE what is crossing from where in the world and carrying what while they do it. They could truck nukes across for all anyone knows because they don't and can't! I don't suggest THAT is happening because it's the worst and most risky way on just random chance ....but it's not because OUR SIDE is doing anything.

So...please.. this has NOTHING to do with socialism, capitalism, communism or any other -ism except perhaps 'small brainism' and corruption among ALL the sellouts we had elected to maintain the integrity of this nation.

reply to post by 727Sky

How many times have we been warned that the next terrorist group will come through Mexico.

Yep, we also have been warned that they could come in through the Northern border, come in through the ports, come in through unsecured waterways, or they would be homegrown, or if all else fails they could come in legally as many past terrorist have done.

As for the op, yes the Republicans sold out, but it isn't the first time or the last. It's the nature of the beast in search of votes and their own job security.

reply to post by jam321


Agreed. This isn't the first. However, it's the last straw for me. I don't even see the value anymore of trying to change the party from the inside. I'd have better luck trying that with the Democrats! At least the dems didn't just suffer through a Ron Paul style 3rd party 'within the party' run so they're all prepared and practiced for it.

3rd party or bust. Literally, as it would seem to be now. The problem is...Rand Paul is only about half the man his Father was by what I've seen so far and Dr. Paul was only a few steps OUTSIDE the system to get my full support as it was. That puts Rand too deep in camp to touch unless A LOT changes ...starting with, well, the thread topic right here would be a dandy start.

* What matters most? Each betrayal brings just a few more % like me from being open to supporting a party stooge if they looked better than the other guy ....to supporting NO ONE but someone I truly WANT. Each time they burn the people, it's one step closer to enough of the population turning to turn THEM out on their butts.

What's so bad with the word amnesty?


Why would we kick out people who really want to live here?
Americans get a rep for being lazy. Guess what? These "illegal immigrants" aren't lazy.
I say we need more motivated people here, who love our country.

Secure our border, duh. But we have to do something with the 10 million people already here. Might as well keep them.

Rubio was a rising star in the GOP until is immigration policy was made known.

Now he has blown any chance of running for higher office with the more conservative wing of the republicans.

I think he realizes the mistake he made and is trying to backtrack but its a bit too late for him. You often only get 1 shot in politics and he blew his.

reply to post by Hopechest

Rubio was a rising star in the GOP until is immigration policy was made know

I disagree. I predict he will be the GOP front runner. But not because of this immigration issue, mainly because the GOP needs to attract minorities to have any chance of winning.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Rubio was a rising star in the GOP until is immigration policy was made know

I disagree. I predict he will be the GOP front runner. But not because of this immigration issue, mainly because the GOP needs to attract minorities to have any chance of winning.

The problem with Rubio's immigration plan is that neither the conservatives or the immigrant supporters like it. He effectively ticked off everyone with his stance. The GOP has better options for minority candidates who are not tarnished.

reply to post by Hopechest

The problem with Rubio's immigration plan is that neither the conservatives or the immigrant supporters like it.

It's merely a rough draft. In the end it will be a 1000 page bill and you will know what is in it once it has passed.

Originally posted by Ghost375
What's so bad with the word amnesty?


Why would we kick out people who really want to live here?
Americans get a rep for being lazy. Guess what? These "illegal immigrants" aren't lazy.
I say we need more motivated people here, who love our country.

Secure our border, duh. But we have to do something with the 10 million people already here. Might as well keep them.

Who love our country? Many illegals have been here for many years and have no desire whatsoever of becoming legal. They save money and return to their own countries or they stay here and get catered to on many levels by being illegal. They disregard our laws and language, steal jobs, lower wages, steal identities, use fraudulent documents etc. Our tax dollars pay for their educations, health benefits etc.

I am sick of hearing about 'lazy americans' when most of our workers have worked their butts off all these years and not by sitting behind a desk. I have worked with illegals for many years and they have their lazy workers as well.

It is wrong and unfair to place illegals above citizens and to allow them to stay at the the head of the line while those coming through proper channels are shoved aside.