U.K Welfare breakdown demonstrates Government are trying to divide a nation

You cannot go by that 3% though....

Some of the % of housing benefit and council tax claimants are the people claiming JSA, it bumps the figures up quite a bit, and the tax payers money spent.

However, that being said, what they need to be doing is focussing on the people claiming these benefits that don't want to work, that is where the real problem lies.

I know people who have been out of work for some time who genuinely want work, yet others who would rather sit at home and take drugs or drink...everybody is being thrown into the same bin sadly.

Looking at that one thing really scares me...
In 10-20 years the amount of elderly people is going to go through the roof.
Will we have enough money to look after them?
I hope so cos I will be one of them.

Logans run anyone? Maximum living age?

Originally posted by yorkshirelad
reply to post by Cobaltic1978

 

An old old war tactic : divide and conquer. What this government does not want is for everybody to start thinking and wondering why billions of tax is not being paid by rich individuals and corporations. It crops up every now and then on the news followed very quickly by a government announcement of some welfare announcement. Classic re-direction of anger. That way the poor and middle earners in society are pointing figures at each other whilst the rich continue to suck out ever more cash.

Western economies are broken, those in positions of power know this so they are applying economic sticking plasters to prop it up long enough for the rich to squeeze out as much as they can and stash it away offshore before it goes belly up.

Incompetant bankers in jail : zero.
Libor fraudsters in jail : zero.
Directors of corporations known to have avoided tax in jail: zero

Bankers with bonuses and/or salaries 20-40% larger than 2 years ago : all of them
Tax avoiding directors with bonuses and/or salaries 20-40% higher than 2 years ago : all of them

DUH!!!!!!!

And 'Zero interest rate policy' shows that they are artificially suppressing interest rates to prop up
Govts and the Large Banks , in effect this will eventually destroy any retirement plan the
average person had if it continues.

So Savers are penalized for being stupid enough to plan for retirement after being forced into plans under Govt terms.

The whole theft makes me sick a moral disgrace and Govts are good; what a joke,they're self serving ruthless wolves in sheep clothing slave masters and to control them citizens have to be vigilant and hold politicians
to account way before Govt becomes too powerful and are influenced outside the ballot box.

The USA's founders gave the world the best shot and example "God save the real America and the real Americans in it"

I have no doubt that the government is trying to make it about the people of this country rather than their own corporate friends and their own personal greed and interests, but I saw this graphic on Facebook, and the poster claimed that he made it, then stated that he would be sharing the sources of his statistics - but he didn't.

I'm curious about this, did you create this graphic and the identical post being shared around Facebook, or are you two different people?
I am suspicious, as it's appeared in two separate places reportedly created by each, and is almost identical in wording, even the addition of the 0.3% fraud stat is presented as an "afterthought".

I am not a conservative, but I am incredibly suspicious about the similarities between your post and the one being spread by someone on Facebook claiming it's theirs, and responding to comments on it too as though they were the one to create it. They even suggest that they work in local government or welfare.

I also note that no one here has bothered to ask for links to back up this data. Where is the common sense? Why are people just seeing a chart, a statement, and seemingly believing every word of it without question?

Based on all of that, while I hate this current government with a passion, I am going to call this propaganda. I don't know why it's being done, or by whom (seriously, there is enough reason to hate this government already, and numbers don't need to be smudged or manipulated), but there is clearly an orchestrated group of people sharing this information in pretty much an identical way in different places, and no links to back up their data is being provided.

The motto here is supposed to be "deny ignorance" right? So why have so many people responded to this OP without asking for proof, just believing what they say without any further thought or consideration?

reply to post by Rocker2013


Possibly based on the one on the Westminster Blog..
blogs.ft.com...

Originally posted by Suspiria
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

Possibly based on the one on the Westminster Blog..
blogs.ft.com...

Indeed, but both this one in the thread and the one appearing on Facebook are IDENTICAL, and I mean even down to the language used and the fraud statistic being added in as an afterthought. And both seem to be suggesting that it is their data, or that they created the graphic.

So, clearly, someone is telling porkies unless I happened to stumble across the same individual both there and here (unlikely), so I'm curious about why that would be and what the motivations are.

reply to post by Rocker2013


Well I've not witnessed it on Facebook only here and I think it was either the Mirror or Guardian that may have gotten hold of it, and perhaps the Socialist Worker. Lefty propoganda now it has most certainly become, but the Westminster Blog itself seems at the fleeting glance I admit to giving it, fairly impartial. So while the lefties may well be running with it, I don't think they had much to do in the way of it's initial inception.

reply to post by Rocker2013


I was going to disagree with you but after a few minutes of reflection I think you may be right. I'm going to punt for it equating to propaganda too, although I'm not going to dispute the figures as I think they are probably fairly represetative of how the welfare pie is sliced up. The propaganda lies in the spin. Take housing benefit recipients and the fact the majority of those recipients are "employed". For a start if you are employed, even earning the minimum wage, the amount of benefit you will qualify for will be very small. I will agree however that this does two things, it subsidizes low wages, and it allows for fraud in the housing sector through rents and benefit payments. Government could counter this simply by giving employers a tax break that could be spent on increasing the basic wage and taking those people above the threshold for housing benefit. It all amounts to the same in the end, as long as the employers use the money as intended.

Also the term "in employment" is rather vague. A person could be in receipt of JSA and HB but be on work placement or on some government funded training course. As far as the system is concerned those people are "in employment" as they are not technically available for work (though they would still be required to take a job if one was offered while on training ect). So... They are on the dole but considered employed, in which case they would be part of that 80% in employment and in receipt of housing benefit even though they don't actually have a job. This is one of the ways they massage unemployment figures, If they can sign a load of jobless people up on a course they can temporarily get the unemployment figures down.

Honestly, I think the whole system is designed of obfuscate the sheer amount of fraud being committed by local authorities as well as other public/private partnership organisations. They are milking the tax payer dry and they are using the benefits system to do it. Lets not forget, at one point the government had housing stock. They essentially paid rent to themselves, not really losing anything. Then they sold off the housing stock to firms many had an interest in and the government then paid the rent to these associations instead. Somebody decided that if they could make themselves the landlord, much profit could be had, and as it's benefits, it's guaranteed money.

As usual, they system would work just fine if it wasn't for people abusing it. Only thing is the abuse is actually at the top and the poor people, the eternal scapegoat.

Sorry to disappoint a few people, but housing benefit doesn't pay all your rent. I'm currently on JSA and am living in a one-bedroom flat with £400 a month rent (private landlord). The government only pays £340 of that, so I have to pay the other £60 a month myself. When you add in things like food, gas and electric then some weeks I have less than a fiver for 'luxuries', and I don't even smoke or drink!

I'd like to work, but I'm over 40 and have a record, so no employer wants to know.

I have never been so saddened at society in the UK as I am today.......

Many year's ago people would have been up in arm's about all the recent welfare reform's and cut's...but what we have instead is many people standing up and clapping at this government's reform's and policies whilst less fortunate and genuinely needy are being stomped on. So how did we get to this as a nation?

Because the government and tabloids for the last couple of years have demonised certain sections of society, stirred resentment, stereotyped those in need of welfare to humiliating degree's....and blamed certain section's of society for all that is wrong with this country!

What is the first thing that many think of regarding a family living on a council estate and claiming benefit's? There was a time when people looked to those group's of people with compassion and regarded them as falling on hard time's...now the first thing that many think of is Jeremy Kyle and that most are lazy, irresponsible, take drug's and/or drink too much and don't take care of their family well.

How did this stereotype become so prevalent?. I have no doubt that those kind of families exist....but to the extent that that should be the focus when people talk about the recent welfare cut's and reform's? Absolutely not in my opinion! Whilst all the reform's and cut's to welfare will no doubt hit those "dole dosser's" ....it will hit far more and in greater number's all those who genuinely need and deserve help!

There as been a lot of coverage of Margaret Thatcher's death and of the huge numbers publicly celebrating. Whilst I don't personally feel it is right for me to join in the celebration's, I live in the North and was a child and teenager during the Thatcher year's and I DO 100% understand the feeling's of great hatred and anger aimed toward's her now. The policy's of that time that meant that huge number's of hard working people and their families were sacrificed for the "perceived" greater good of the nation was a hard pill to swallow for some.....and many other's will never understand. It was all about making the country profitable, with no balance or regard for the spiritual affect on society. It was about materialism and had no regard for the many communities who had their heart and soul ripped out of their chest's!

So what do I see today in my great country? Whole sections of society being made scapegoat's as other's applaud. And all the while no consideration for the human cost, least of all to children. Children who will be the next generation who will grow up feeling just as disregarded and dissociated as the one before.

The government trying to divide a nation? I couldn't agree more...I see how it has a twofold benefit. First of all it mean's this government as been able to cripple the poorer further while it has a big portion of society baying loudly behind them giving their support. And secondly whilst we are all pointing finger's at each other for the decline of this nation the real issue's that need addressing have been blown off the chart.

So did this happen by sheer accident...or was it cleverly orchestrated as a mean's to an end to benefit the few? I have already made my mind up!

I have worked as a carpenter since i left school in 1985 never claimed anything,until last year when i found out i had emphysema my chest had been bad for a couple of years before hand but i put that down to age and dusty work places.
I was put on oxygen in july 16hrs a day then january2013 was told i had lung cancer.
I was sent off to ATOS for a check/medical and they failed me they said i was fit for work.
This is what is happening to many thousands of people, i now have to pay out of my£71 pw £33pm council tax £14pw bedroom tax and it is a tax,and i have to pay for my prescriptions because my ESA is a work group thats 5 items a month i have to pay costs to get me to hospital 3 times a week .
My doctor and consultant are livid to what the government are putting me through,I am trying to fight these illnesses i dont need all the hassle that IDS and the DWP are putting me through at the moment .
My savings have now gone paid the electric and gas bill with what was left of it cant afford the water rates so will probably be taken to court soon but hey ho.

reply to post by KROandSOTV


Any time you are being taken to court for a debt to some corporate entity, check the date the company suing you applied to the court and the amount they say you owed them on that day. If you can prove the figure is incorrect, fill out the court forms to that effect, attach copies of any proofs (receipts, paid invoices etc). The court's should then return the petition on a technicality, ie it is incorrect and not factual even if you still owe a different amount than the claim states. The claimnant will then have to start the process all over again.

reply to post by Watchfull


Are you clinically impaired from critical thinking? Everything you described in your post is merely a speculation on the activities of the 0.3% who are estimated to be scamming disability welfare benefits.

Just because ALL of that 0.3% are doing outrageous things, it doesn't change the fact that it is still ONLY 0.3% of disability claimants.

Mathematics, plus tact & sensitivity when dealing with complex social issues, clearly aren't your strong life skills. Or those of the single buddy that gave you a star for your overwhelming ignorance & misrepresentation of the disabled citizens of the UK.

reply to post by Rocker2013


My response above technically still holds merit, as the person to whom I was responding had totally misunderstood & misrepresented the figures quoted in the OP.

On reflection, it seems you are right to query the figures - I will investigate for my own sake & then share what I find.

Make no mistake though - as a disabled person myself, I am well-placed to comment on the disgraceful treatment of the poor & disadvantaged by the present government.

I will elaborate further, but first I'll check into those statistics. No matter the figures, the truth is that genuinely disabled people are being put through the wringer of endless forms, fake medicals run by ATOS/DWP, lengthy and complex appeals & HM Courts Tribunals, having their monies reduced massively (to even further below the poverty line), and to cap it all, are experiencing awful discrimination as the result of media sensationalism and government manipulation concerning the small proportion of scammers among the ranks of the genuinely disabled.

The many suffer because of the few, and because of those who howl about 'the few' from the rooftops.

reply to post by Rocker2013


I appreciate I should have posted some links from the outset. I am not part of a propaganda machine I can assure you.

www.benefitfraud.org.uk...

This shows Incapacity Benefit Fraud at an estimated 0.3%

DLA Benefit fraud at 0.5%

So effectively it should have been 0.8% of the combined benefits.


I didn't make the chart or claim to, it was taken from this website.

straighttothesource.wordpress.com...

reply to post by teapot


Thank you Teapot for the advice .I am not to worried about court because if i havent got it they cant have it.

reply to post by KROandSOTV


It sicken's me that so many people have been hung to dry by this government's pledge to reduce the number of disability claimant's. I have heard so many stories about people with medical condition's being in genuine need of extra help and care being slapped in the face.

My daughter was diagnosed with cancer at a very young age...she became very poorly when she was just 6 year's old and was diagnosed the same week she turned 7. She had two and half year's of cancer treatment that was very gruelling and as a result of lengthy chemo as been left with some long term health complication's, some physical and some mental. Up until a couple of week's ago she was receiving the higher level care element of Disability Living Allowance and the lower level of the mobility element. Her claim was up for renewal and we have just been informed that the decision is not favourable. She is no longer being awarded any kind of DLA at all.

My daughter is 11 year's of age now and her journey and fight to try and maintain as "normal" a life as possible as been painful to watch as a parent and continue's to be so. But people don't realize that disability benefit's are not just about the money...they represent an acknowledgement and are a validation of the suffering that many because of various health condition's and disability's have to endure in their day to day living. Take that away and you may as well tell people that nobody care's...that is how I feel right now about my little girl.

Her future is still uncertain, but the extra money went a long way in making life a little more bearable for her and enabling her to do more thing's children of her own age take for granted. I still haven't told her it as gone.
I wish I could go out and get a job to fill the gap in this shortfall to continue to make life easier for her, but regardless of whether this government deem her in need of extra care the practicality's are that I need to be around full time to care for her. Again validation is an important thing and because she is no longer getting DLA I cannot claim carer's allowance, so my role as a carer for her isn't even recognised any more.

It really grieved me to read about your own situation...and I am so sorry that people like yourself and my daughter have been hung out to dry. I don't think that many people realize that whilst they are applauding this government's welfare cut's and reform's they are also applauding the appalling treatment of very many individual's like yourself and my daughter....right now it make's me feel fairly despondent.......

reply to post by Logos23


Have you appealed against this decision?

If not, I strongly advise you to. Many decisions are overturned on appeal, like 90+ % of claimants being found fit for work after undergoing an assessment by the organisation awarded the contract by the Government.

Can you believe they put this out to tender and actually appointed a French owned organisation to run this?

So please appeal, I urge you.

reply to post by Cobaltic1978


I have requested a written statement of the decision which should tell me in more detail why they have turned the claim down...but there is nothing they can tell me that will justify her not being deemed eligible for help. So yes I will definitely be appealing!

I think that there is most definitely a good chance that an appeal will be favourable....but I am a little down hearted because to be honest this hassle is the last thing we need as a family...daily life is already difficult enough with the obstacle's my daughter face's....she doesn't deserve this. I understand I shouldn't be taking it personal...but it's difficult not to. I have been advised that an appeal will take month's. It's bad enough...but when I will now have to spend so much time focusing on and discussing and filling out form's going over her difficulties it is a depressing prospect...I just want me and my daughter left in peace to get on and manage thing's, that is draining enough on it's own.

Oh well...I will find the strength from somewhere....bad day...I don't stay down long

Thank you for your consideration and concern

The government is definitely trying to divide the nation.

I was born deaf, sent to a "special school", and fitted with a herring aid. When I was in junior school, a bully hit me in the ear, driving the earpiece of the herring aid down my audio canal, perforating the eardrum,

So now I was deaf, and had a perforated eardrum, which would never heal due to the size of it.

I made it through juniors, then high school, and eventually got a job in a chemistry lab, while studying for a physics degree. During which time I acquired cancer, testicular cancer to be precise. Probably due to exposure to some noxious rubbish in the lab. The company fired me, because it was predicted I would need 2 to 3 years at least.

I underwent surgery, followed by a year of x-ray therapy. After which, I was unable to complete my degree, because government rules at the time said if you dropped out of a degree they wouldn't fund further studies. No exceptions existed in the books, for legitimate dropouts due to illness.

I got a job working in a restaurant. working 9hr shifts for £2.35 an hour (pre-minimum pay laws), wasn't much but it kept my head above water. I was diagnosed with diabetes mellitius, possibly caused by the x-ray therapy killing the pancreatic cells responsible for insulin production. I learned to live without candy.

Due to complications with diabetes, I developed a degenerative eye condition, which means I'm slowly going blind. No, its not glaucoma, thats treatable, this isn't. All they can do is slow it down. The company I was working for went bankrupt.

I got a job with a friend, doing landscape gardening. During which, I had a nasty fall, and shattered my right talus bone, and right leg bone (forget the name of it). They spliced me back together with pins and rods. However the outcome is that I can't walk unaided, or for more than 50 to 60 meters without excruciating pain.

The government signed me off as unable to work on long term incapacity benefit with DLA at the lower rate (mobility component), because:
1) I'm deaf, can't use phones,
2) I can't walk any significant distance.
3) Visual issues.

I worked all my lift when I was able. From 18 to 32, and I worked hard.

I would give back ALL my benefits, if I could be healthy again, because taking "free cash" is, for me, soul destroying.

Now at the age of 42, my landlord is suggesting I move out of the house I was born in, into a bedsit, because its a 2 bed property and I'm a single man. This would be a loss for them, as the house has been modified to accommodate my disabilities.

A lot of people only see that I am on long term incapacity benefit, with DLA, and automatically label me as a "scrounger". This view is encouraged by government propaganda.

Thanks for that.