The new science of life, morphic fields and Rupert Sheldrake

I gave you star and flag for this excellent post.
We need new theories to get past the current state of affairs.
This being said...
The new frontiers are inside, the new is probably old, and the greatest thing to come will be small and will not be available at Walmart...
Like the bigger picture.
The wholeness is multi dimensional...
Ideas and theories are still just that. Emotionally charged answers are signs that the limit is reach. The sound barrier is within reach! -pun intended -

The monkeys here throwing wrenches and trolling are desperately loosing their world views.
They still have the Flat Earth Society, though.

Nice OP.
Just a small correction...the "earth worm" in your second picture is actually a planarian. Somehow I remembered that from freshman zoology 30 years ago.

Originally posted by Gastrok
Nice OP.
Just a small correction...the "earth worm" in your second picture is actually a planarian. Somehow I remembered that from freshman zoology 30 years ago.

LOL, you took the words right out of my mouth. Was just about to post the same, lol.

Very interesting hypothesis, OP. Will read up more when I have time.

Awesome thread this is a really good topic and you have presented a lot of decent information about it.

I found out about morphic fields a few years ago and since then I have noticed how good the concept is at explaining numerous things in life.

When you think about how many christians there are all believing this vengeful god in the sky, it kind of makes it real in a sense. It's like a collective unconscious where any concept that is believed to be true by a vast majority gains ground within the field.

Then you have law of attraction and pilot waves along with aura's and magnetic resonance interacting with this field and playing a vital role in the shaping of your reality. Your pilot wave is basically what you project consciously and unconsciously into the world both in the present and future.

So while there is a greater field on the level of humanity's beliefs, there are smaller ones on the level of individuals beliefs all interacting with each other in unseen ways.

Couple of things here that might support the ideas behind Sheldrake's theory:

Time-lapse Tuesday: A frog's electric face

How does an embryo know where its face should grow? This amazing time-lapse video reveals a surprising mechanism at work: electricity.

The footage shows a frog embryo early on its development. Watch carefully and around nine seconds into the video you'll see a flash of light and dark patterns that looks like a template for where the face will subsequently develop.

(snip)

Dany Adams, a developmental biologist at Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts, stumbled upon the patterns after leaving her time-lapse camera running overnight. She describes the recording that she saw the next day as "jaw-dropping".

The footage reveals three distinct stages of bioelectrical activity. In the first stage, a wave of negative charge sweeps across the entire embryo - the first bright flash in the video. In the second stage, a pattern of light and dark patches appears, which overlaps with areas where genes for head patterning are switched on, and seems to match the placement of the eyes, nose and mouth. In the final stage, a flash of electricity happens just before the embryo undergoes a growth spurt.

"We believe this bioelectrical signal is a 'pre-pattern' - marking areas on the embryo that will become certain craniofacial structures," says Adam's colleague Laura Vandenberg. "What was most amazing was that this bioelectrical information is used to 'instruct' most if not all of the facial structures - the jaw, eye, nose, and otolith (a kind of ear bone)."

To find out whether these patterns of electrical activity are indeed directly involved in the formation of the embryo, Tufts researchers tried blocking ductin, a protein involved in hydrogen ion transport. The embryos often went on to develop abnormalities, such as two brains or abnormal eyes and jaws. While more research is needed, Vandenberg says the results may ultimately be relevant to a wide range of animals - including humans.

And then there was this recent/related thread on ATS:

The Primeval Code

And here's a quick video of old Rup talking about Morphogenetic fields:



Sheldrake has been a huge target of scorn, mockery, and ridicule throughout his career (an editor from the journal Nature once said a book of his was "worth burning"), and he has consistently handled himself admirably and with restraint. See, for instance, the interview he gave with Skeptiko after his TED talk was removed and he was accused of "pseudoscience" by the organization and their anonymous science board. He even asked for a debate, a request which was denied.

He certainly isn't afraid of discussions or debate, or even throwing himself in the lion's den at times (see the roundtable discussion Een schitterend ongeluk (A Glorious Accident) - 7/7 - The meeting (1/2) - the moderator essentially calls him childish off the bat). People can hurl insults at Sheldrake from a distance, but - apart from this rare instance from over a decade ago - they very rarely engage in public debate/discussion with him. Again, considering how much vitriol has been piled on him throughout the years, it's amazing the man hasn't gone the way of Ignaz Semmelweis. And I don't think I've ever seen him react in kind with personal insults or malice.

For those interested, I highly recommend checking out the "Trialogues" between him, Terence McKenna, and Ralph Abraham:

The Sheldrake - McKenna - Abraham Trialogues

Here's one that made it on video (part 1 of 3):

I found the main OP fascinating, and it resonates (no pun intended) with something I keep meaning to put on here regarding the manner & mechanism of plant communication.

However, your bigoted & disgustingly insensitive comments about some people's most treasured beliefs, have quite honestly ruined the whole thing. I believe in God. I do not believe that Genesis is supposed to be taken as a literal statement of fact. The nature of the Creationist agenda & the type of comments made by sheltered and ignorant persons professing faith in God does not make YHWH a 'douche'.

If anything, you have simply revealed that you personally are a douche, by making an intellectually dishonest broad-brushstroke criticism - of a deep spiritual tradition with all manner of historical & present forms, which has given comfort and inspiration to all manner of people, and through which all manner of people have been blessed as the result of the charitable actions of those who keep faith.

Modern secular humanism/ 'scientific' atheism will not sort out the world's problems, and whilst better, neither will a simple Taoist philosophy - we are a complex race besieged by dark powers, with severe material & spiritual problems.

Taoism is fine for those who are already blessed with a strength of mind, who are not overwhelmed by circumstances of grief beyond their own control - but it is useless for those who are in the grip of demons, or for those who for whatever of a million reasons need the comforting presence of Heaven in times of trial, or the assurance of everlasting peace in their final days. Taoism is an honorable path in many ways, and concurs generally with the proper ethical Way, but it is not a solution for all that ails us in this broken world - for some it is an impossibly abstract idea.

You'll note that I have the Chinese symbol for the Tao in my avatar. However, I am a Christian.

I believe the Tao (literal - the Way) is in fact personal in nature, that He is the Totality (within a certainty) of Pure Form; the Light revealing Truth & Wisdom; the full expression of Being, alive forevermore & since the Ancient of Days. I believe He was manifest on Earth 2000 years ago to the Hebrew children (esp. the simple & unlearned) as the the Son of Man, Yeshua, the Messiah/Christ.

The Tao/ Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Some situations we may face are impossible for a man to gauge, let alone resolve. The despised, the weak & the broken tend to find strength in Christ, for it was primarily to such that are 'poor in spirit' that He came... ''The healthy do not need a physician'' were just a few of the immortal words he spoke.

The beautiful, powerful & established folk amongst us can also find strength in Him - but it is harder for them to give up the reigns on their lives, for Christ has demanded that they bless others with their abundance, even (not always, but often) becoming fiscally poor in the service of others. He demands we be willing to sacrifice our own plans, our own time & energies, in the service of others - or that we become intellectual 'fools' instead of massaging our egos with high-minded complexities of philosophy. All for the sake of Him & the Kingdom of Heaven - for others, and not for ourselves.

It is prideful to assume that we as human creatures can comprehend the totality of our position within this universe. Only one teacher ever came with a truth so bold as to say that He is God, and no other above or beside Him. It breaks our prideful ego to submit to the authority of God, to ask forgiveness for errors & petition for guidance, much-needed, if we are to overcome the spiritual obstacles we cannot see...

When we come before Him in humility, we are indwelled with Truth & Life in their highest possible expressions, we are shown 'The Way', and thus are saved from the darkness of our exasperating and mysterious human condition - the delusion in which we pretend at self-mastery, whilst blinding ourselves & binding ourselves to the abject failings of humanity down the ages...

It is a wise thing to say: ''There but for the grace of God go I.''

How else might it have been in our individual lives? What kind of grace was apportioned to us? Would the cold vacuum of the impersonal Tao of Eastern thought be a comfort to a grieving mother, or would it rather foster despair & despondency? As a soldier going over top of the trenches would you find comfort in the idea of non-existence should a bullet strike you squarely? Why fight at all, if it doesn't matter, if all is illusory, if there is no real love, no real joy, no wondrous Power to receive you at the end of the road?

God is personal, is loving, and has variably expressed His presence in clear ways, revealing Himself fully in the humblest way - taking our form, sharing our pain, and dying for us, should we care to look & see what that actually means. He is the I AM, the Alpha & Omega - infinite, infinitely capable of personal care.

Originally posted by Gastrok
Nice OP.
Just a small correction...the "earth worm" in your second picture is actually a planarian. Somehow I remembered that from freshman zoology 30 years ago.

Thanks! Always nice to get the facts correct, shame I cant edit it.

reply to post by ZeuZZ


Bloody well constructed post, fascinating stuff, I will most definitely look into this fellows work, S&F

I try to skim almost everything that comes through here. It is time consuming and I get a lot of things mixed up because it is information overload and so much of it is just total make believe. That combination makes your mind wonder. I've read some posts where they say that we all generate our own magnetic field, or some sort of field. That said field can range in proximity from very close to miles away. Some would call it an aura, but others say it shapes the very galaxies by means that we physically cannot see.

monessasmontage.wordpress.com...

Well, if we all beings are generating similar fields, it seems totally possible that the strength of the field determines what happens. It is shown to be realistic within simpler structures, I'm not saying us humans are the pinnacle of evolution but perhaps this is a latency that we lost at some point. Hell it could still be there, how else do so many people seem to heal themselves when they actually focus their minds? Maybe we just lack that simple one minded focus to survive, no matter what.

The Sheldrake - McKenna - Abraham Trialogues.

Great videos, this is the kinda stuff I love... it sounds so crazy but I really think it's just far ahead of our time and for all we know there are people out there doing this kind of stuff NOW.

It's also very interesting to me that Sheldrake and McKenna were buddies.
It's sad that you never really hear anyone talking about new ideas anymore these days

Book marking to read later
thanks

Originally posted by Time2Think
The Sheldrake - McKenna - Abraham Trialogues.

Great videos, this is the kinda stuff I love... it sounds so crazy but I really think it's just far ahead of our time and for all we know there are people out there doing this kind of stuff NOW.

It's also very interesting to me that Sheldrake and McKenna were buddies.
It's sad that you never really hear anyone talking about new ideas anymore these days

With Mckennas death Sheldrake seems one of the few that talks about these new ideas still. Also Bruce Lipton is a good bet. Most maths, chaos theory, physics and chemistry has pretty much been proved and deduced, the real surprises of the future lay in biology and consciousness and their relationship to molecular biology and organic chemistry.

And Mckenna and Abraham pretty much predicted the modern internet in some of those talks, which were started in 1992, before www. was even invented. Shows how amazingly ahead of their time they were.

Unfortunately there is a blanket ban on Mckenna on the forum, since he often talks about psychedelics. Such a shame, as he was a visionary, and there is so much good material I could post, but it would just be taken down instantly. These rules need to change, psychedelics played not only a pivotal role in our evolution but have a considerable role to play in our future.

Music is higher revelation than wisdom and philosophy... Music is the mediator between spiritual and sensual life.

There is no loftier mission than to approach the Godhead more nearly than other mortals and by means of that contact to spread the rays of the Godhead through the human race.

-Ludwig van Beethoven

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Via, Veritas, Vita


Triptychs - Viva La Vida:

Originally posted by ZeuZZ

Originally posted by theGleep
Thanks for explaining what The Doctor is always talking about!

(and exposing me to an interesting new way to think things might work

As to the "ad-hominem approach to science," Ben Stein's movie "Expelled" is about this exact thing. Most people I've talked to about the movie (who didn't see it) don't *want* to see it because "it's about creationism vs evolution".

But the movie is *REALLY* about how the pursuit of observations that contradict "known theory" is shut down academically.

So it doesn't surprise me that Sheldrake is unsupported by his peers.

Can you give some examples please? Most creationists are delusional. And ignore quite concrete evidence. I presumed Steins film was much the same, can you cite a couple of examples and what theories they violate?

Ok I just watched 30 minutes. What a pile of crap! Sorry but that really is pseudoscience, they completely misrepresent the elegance and beauty of evolutionary theory and then simply destroy their own strawman.

Examples of observations that violate "known theory"? There were a few in the movie - had you watched it all the way through, instead of turning it off because you disagree with how they look at evolutionary theory. It sounds like you "missed the forest for the trees". The theories and ideas might be junk - but look at the observations that give rise to the questions - and the reactions to those observations.

I can't remember all of the examples from the movie, but one that sticks out is the measurement of light (pulsars, I believe) that is calculated as originating from *before* the big-bang...or, to put it another way, light that has been traveling longer than time existed.

Whether that is proof for creation or not is *not* the point I'm discussing; what I'm discussing is the reaction to the publication of the finding. The author was censured and funding revoked.

The same "climate" (pardon the pun, please) exists in discussion of "man-made global warming". The "science community" says "The math has been done, the thinking has been done" and if anyone asks a question to challenge those findings, they are met with ad-hominim responses ("in the pocket of big oil" being prevalent), instead of explanation of how the "doubter" has misunderstood "the science". Again, I'm not talking about *whether MMGW is real* - I'm talking about how contrarian observations are recieved.

I'll probably check back to the thread in a month or so...if you want more examples of "scientists" ignoring observations because they don't fit "known theory", I'll go do a more in-depth search.

Originally posted by QuietSpeech
I try to skim almost everything that comes through here. It is time consuming and I get a lot of things mixed up because it is information overload and so much of it is just total make believe. That combination makes your mind wonder. I've read some posts where they say that we all generate our own magnetic field, or some sort of field. That said field can range in proximity from very close to miles away. Some would call it an aura, but others say it shapes the very galaxies by means that we physically cannot see.

monessasmontage.wordpress.com...

Well, if we all beings are generating similar fields, it seems totally possible that the strength of the field determines what happens. It is shown to be realistic within simpler structures, I'm not saying us humans are the pinnacle of evolution but perhaps this is a latency that we lost at some point. Hell it could still be there, how else do so many people seem to heal themselves when they actually focus their minds? Maybe we just lack that simple one minded focus to survive, no matter what.

We do not generate magtnetic fields. Else magnets would stich to us and we would be stiching to metal. The biggest source of EM forces in the body are the votage gates and ion channels inside closed systems, that have no net charge.

Think about it: Your brain is made of neurons that send electronic packets to function. If it was really this simple then putting a small megnet by you head should totally screw up these electric/magnetic (EM) fields. The currents exist, but they are too small to be effects by magnetic forces outside your body.

The heart creates the biggest EM field in the body, and pulses from it can be deteced by about 6 goot away. But its not really a magnetic field, it's an electrochemical field without a north or south pole ... and Ph gradients also explain a lot fo this.

Yes I have evidence I won't report you the ATS staff as you do with those disagreeing with you. As a child did you taddle a lot?