Misconceptions about God?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by BlueMule
I think the biggest misconception is about conceptions.

People seem to think that conceptions of God are either true or false, and that its important to have a true one. As if a true conception is possible... as if a religion can be true in that regard where others are false.

Sooner or later people have to transcend conceptions, thoughts, social binaries and taboo.

Is it conceivable that God could reveal truth about Himself?

Not without simultaneously revealing untruth about Herself. God expresses Itself through pairs of opposites. Like the Tao expressing Itself through yin and yang. Neither of which encompass the entire truth, both of which are filtered through one's psychological type and spiritual readiness.

Words are finite vessels.

"How can any finite vessel hope to contain the endless God? Therefore, see yourself as nothing; only one who is nothing can contain the fullness of the Presence." -Menahem Nahum

reply to post by BlueMule

Not without simultaneously revealing untruth about Herself.

Well, I'm sure that goes without saying considering the Law of Non-Contradiction and Inversion Principle.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21
We must wake up to our misconceptions about God.

Yes, I completely agree with you on this!

Originally posted by DarkKnight21
Feel free to share what you think are other common misconceptions about God. Biblically-sound ideas are preferred, but don't be afraid to speak your mind either.

I appreciate your openness!

Yes, there are seemingly endless misconceptions about God. I think one of the most pervasive misconceptions is that of the Creator-God Idea that man created because of his misunderstanding of the truth in the message of various spiritual realizers, his need for security, his desire to explain how the cosmos appeared, his felt sense of separation from all, etc.

This misconception of God as the Creator also assumes that God is a Great Other, an all-powerful Super-Entity, separate, totally in charge, to be loved and worshiped. But is this what Jesus actually taught - that God is a separate Other? Rather than reposting it all here, please see this post and the several after it, if you want more detail.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As those posts and quotes speak about, Jesus taught no-separation, between God and himself, between himself and all others - and also called for his followers to recognize that no separation exists between them and him and God as well. This was Jesus' great gift to all - the freeing of all from the myth of separation, of objectifying the Divine as some Super-Entity in charge of everything.

It is the assumption of separation from God that is our original sin, and Jesus taught freedom from this through his commandments of love (non-separation), and his instructions and initiation of his disciples into God as the Indivisible Spirit Light Above through esoteric means - i.e., via his blessing transmissions of the Holy Spirit.

Once this objectification of God as "the Great Other" is profoundly understood to be a myth that permeates almost all religious traditions - and one's inherent unity with Reality is recognized rather than separated from - then there is freedom from all such mentalized belief systems because God is truly beyond any such beliefs. With the recognition of Truth one finds that we are inherently free of illusions, and the being becomes heart-intelligent, discriminating, and love itself.

If way more Christians enjoyed what Jesus actually offered in terms of his instructions and blessings on a daily basis (and even in esoteric terms relative to the Spirit Light of God Above), then all kinds of arguments and misconceptions would vanish because the basis for them (the objectification of the Divine as Other and Elsewhere) would also vanish. One's inherent non-separation from God would be obvious and certain.

Of course, such following of Jesus' core commandments is only truly possible if non-separation from God is at least tacitly recognized from the beginning, thus providing the basis for taking responsibility for all of one's life and practice. This tacit heart-recognition that we all arise in indivisible unity is our inherent capability in any moment, because it is already the case - and is the Unity that Jesus taught with these commandments of love.

Without the release of this primary myth or misconception about God as the great all-powerful Super-Parent-Creator-God who is Elsewhere and Other, Christianity, as commonly understood and presented, becomes much more difficult for many many people to (continue to) justify - e.g., the matter of a loving Creator-God being in charge but allowing all the horrors on the news every day. One can't help but question why such a God would do this, allow that, etc., etc., etc.

reply to post by DarkKnight21


Thee greatest misconception is that we are made in some way, shape, or form in the likeness of a god.

Physical traits of mankind: We grow phlegm and ear wax. We are containers for urine, feces, and snot. We fart, burp, and bleed. We stink when we sweat. We puke, grow gunk on the eyes when we sleep, and our underwear shows how we leak, ooze, and can't control our crap. Worst of all, our breath is ROTTEN! No if's, and's, or but's about it, we are one disgusting species.

Other traits: We kill, hate, and are utterly self-centered. We are greedy, lustful, insecure, self-serving, and destroyers of everything we touch.

No, no god created us in his likeness.
And, if an all-powerful god existed and DID create us in his likeness - RUN! HIDE! AND HOPE TO GOD THAT HE DOESN'T EXIST!

reply to post by jiggerj
LOL! And I assume that list was tempered by you for PG-13 viewing!

However, it is much more the case that man created the Creator-God in man's own image of early life emotions - wanting a big Super-Parent who takes care of us because of how messed up we tend to be even as adults. At least as children, the mess was easy enough to clean up - though I am not speaking necessarily for you, jiggerj!

Of course, just because man did create the Creator-God based in his own image of early life emotional needs, etc., this does not automatically mean that God does not exist.

I think something crucial is that God may not necessarily act, be, or have done the things like it is described by Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any religion, really.

reply to post by bb23108

this does not automatically mean that God does not exist

I can't argue with this. Maybe this universe is a TV show being watched by beings in another realm. Maybe we're all a part of a computer program. Who knows? But, a perfect god cannot exist because there is nothing in heaven, hell, or on earth that is perfect. Eternal perfection cannot exist.

reply to post by jiggerj
Well if you look at perfection in terms of conditions, I would have to agree because perfection could not be caused or causative. Perfection can only be Unconditional or Acausal.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Perfect love or perfect justice. That's it. The cross is important because it is the intersection of perfect love and perfect justice. Without them, the idea of a "perfect holiness" becomes hollow.

You do seem to think that God is obligated to carry out "justice".
This seems to me to negate your first premise, that God is not under obligation, or is it only that way when it comes to being merciful?
Do you believe that it is actually a Christian belief that there is a higher thing than God, call it, Justice, that God is under obligation to?
If so, then God is not really God, and is only a servant to that higher thing, be it a principle, or a person.
I think your entire cosmology needs to be put under a scrutiny, and undergo a reevaluation.
Is your belief really biblical, and I mean by the Christian Bible, otherwise known as the New Testament?
Could you possibly be just following a slightly askew interpretation of the Old Testament, rather than the Gospel?
I think so. Can you point out in the NT where it says that Jesus paid for your debt to Justice?
I would say, No, based on how many times and to how many people I have asked this question.
Jesus did not die to pay your "sin debt".
Jesus, if anything, died to judge the world and the system that it was working under, and to show how out of alignment it was with real justice, the type of justice that Jesus came to tell us about.
If you believe that the death of Jesus was "just", then you are showing that you belong to the old system that Jesus died in order to destroy.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

The ancient Hebrews are pretty cool humans to read about.

Oh . . really?
Which ones would that be?
Abraham who allied himself with Canaanite kings to go to war? Who sent the mother of his child and his son out into the desert to die?
Who was about to kill his other son with his own hand, do you mean that Hebrew?
They were all pretty despicable people according to my book.
Daniel would be the exception that would come to mind but he is obviously a wholly fictional person who never really existed but represents an ideal type.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

The precious Truth is that God's love and justice was to send His Own Son to pay the penalty for the sins of all, in order to make the redemption of all possible.

OK, you have just stated a theory that you have, do you have anything in the Bible that would collaborate it?
Good luck with that because there isn't and you are stating a theological system formulated in the late 1800's based on the writings of the Reformers, using them as source material as if they had the same authority as the Bible.
So, have a good time with your man-made theory and see how much good it does you when it is a little too late and you are facing judgment after the end of this life.
You have just been notified, so that leaves you without that excuse, so, you are damned to hell if you neglect your obligation to become righteous before God.

reply to post by ABeing

I do believe however there are some mysteries referenced in the Bible that have been discovered to be true but have been "swept under the rug" because of various agendas.

Oh . . do you mean like that the earth is a big flat disk floating on the water and that the sun and moon float on another ocean above the sky as a big dome held up by great pillars?
Do you mean those kinds of facts?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

Perfect love or perfect justice. That's it. The cross is important because it is the intersection of perfect love and perfect justice. Without them, the idea of a "perfect holiness" becomes hollow.

You do seem to think that God is obligated to carry out "justice".
This seems to me to negate your first premise, that God is not under obligation, or is it only that way when it comes to being merciful?
Do you believe that it is actually a Christian belief that there is a higher thing than God, call it, Justice, that God is under obligation to?
If so, then God is not really God, and is only a servant to that higher thing, be it a principle, or a person.

What you are referring to is the Euthyphro dilemma. Personally I think He reveals his character to us if we open ourselves to it, so it isn't necessary for us to trap God in our linguistic philosophical paradoxes.

We all have our own ideas about what "perfect justice" should be because we are made in the image of our Creator.

Originally posted by jmdewey60Could you possibly be just following a slightly askew interpretation of the Old Testament, rather than the Gospel?
I think so. Can you point out in the NT where it says that Jesus paid for your debt to Justice?

It's in there. You can look up the verses online, or I can find them for you. Hint: a good starting point is John 3:16.

If you believe that the death of Jesus was "just", then you are showing that you belong to the old system that Jesus died in order to destroy.

Perfect justice was served at the crucifixion because sin demands penalty of death under our demands for perfect holiness.
Perfect mercy was served at the crucifixion because the innocent willingly took that penalty from us sinners.

We humans love to over complicate stuff. This is how our misconceptions come about. If God doesn't meet our standard of perfect justice then the error lies not in God, but in our way of thinking about what perfect justice is.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

And, if an all-powerful god existed and DID create us in his likeness - RUN! HIDE! AND HOPE TO GOD THAT HE DOESN'T EXIST!

I always though that "in His likeness" meant having an innate desire or need to create.

Originally posted by bb23108
Yes, there are seemingly endless misconceptions about God. I think one of the most pervasive misconceptions is that of the Creator-God Idea that man created because of his misunderstanding of the truth in the message of various spiritual realizers, his need for security, his desire to explain how the cosmos appeared, his felt sense of separation from all, etc.

This misconception of God as the Creator also assumes that God is a Great Other, an all-powerful Super-Entity, separate, totally in charge, to be loved and worshiped. But is this what Jesus actually taught - that God is a separate Other? Rather than reposting it all here, please see this post and the several after it, if you want more detail.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As those posts and quotes speak about, Jesus taught no-separation, between God and himself, between himself and all others - and also called for his followers to recognize that no separation exists between them and him and God as well. This was Jesus' great gift to all - the freeing of all from the myth of separation, of objectifying the Divine as some Super-Entity in charge of everything.

It is the assumption of separation from God that is our original sin, and Jesus taught freedom from this through his commandments of love (non-separation), and his instructions and initiation of his disciples into God as the Indivisible Spirit Light Above through esoteric means - i.e., via his blessing transmissions of the Holy Spirit.

Once this objectification of God as "the Great Other" is profoundly understood to be a myth that permeates almost all religious traditions - and one's inherent unity with Reality is recognized rather than separated from - then there is freedom from all such mentalized belief systems because God is truly beyond any such beliefs. With the recognition of Truth one finds that we are inherently free of illusions, and the being becomes heart-intelligent, discriminating, and love itself.

Thanks for your reply, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. It's easy to get trapped in the esoteric stuff but I think it really just comes down to serving others. Internal change and self-love (in a non-narcissistic way) builds genuine desire to help others. Ultimately I think we serve God by serving others, and the illusion sometimes prevents us from seeing that.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

The ancient Hebrews are pretty cool humans to read about.

Oh . . really?
Which ones would that be?
Abraham who allied himself with Canaanite kings to go to war? Who sent the mother of his child and his son out into the desert to die?
Who was about to kill his other son with his own hand, do you mean that Hebrew?
They were all pretty despicable people according to my book.
Daniel would be the exception that would come to mind but he is obviously a wholly fictional person who never really existed but represents an ideal type.

edit on 9-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Abraham wasn't a "Hebrew" Dewey, but besides that fact, didn't Abraham receive a promise from God that they would be unharmed and Ishmael would be the father of a great nation. And Jesus spoke of Daniel as a real person.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

The precious Truth is that God's love and justice was to send His Own Son to pay the penalty for the sins of all, in order to make the redemption of all possible.

OK, you have just stated a theory that you have, do you have anything in the Bible that would collaborate it?
Good luck with that because there isn't and you are stating a theological system formulated in the late 1800's based on the writings of the Reformers, using them as source material as if they had the same authority as the Bible.
So, have a good time with your man-made theory and see how much good it does you when it is a little too late and you are facing judgment after the end of this life.
You have just been notified, so that leaves you without that excuse, so, you are damned to hell if you neglect your obligation to become righteous before God.

edit on 9-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

Adventist.org/fundamental beliefs.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21
Thanks for your reply, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. It's easy to get trapped in the esoteric stuff but I think it really just comes down to serving others. Internal change and self-love (in a non-narcissistic way) builds genuine desire to help others. Ultimately I think we serve God by serving others, and the illusion sometimes prevents us from seeing that.

It is clearly more than just serving others, although that is very admirable. Jesus' two commandments of love were very specifically ordered - the first being to love God fully with the whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. And secondly, to love one's neighbors as oneself. If it simply came down to serving others, Jesus would have reversed the order of his two great commandments.

Jesus was not simply interested in creating an exoteric way of good works of service in the world. Jesus taught the way of utter self-sacrifice in God through complete love-surrender to the Lord. On this basis, Jesus could further teach self-transcendence in the Divine Spirit Light Above, which is what he meant by "being born from above". This is the esoteric process of ascension and salvation Jesus taught his most devoted (surrendered-to-God) followers.

Thus Jesus' way to be fully understood must encompass both his exoteric teachings of love and service, and his esoteric teachings of self-transcendence, ascension, and salvation in the Spirit Light of God Above. In fact, unless one truly loves God first and foremost, one's service to others may not be based on real selflessness, but done for a variety of other reasons. In other words, one can only truly love and serve one's neighbor if one has already learned to love God beyond one's own selfish motives.

To dismiss the esoteric gifts Jesus offers all Christians is another major misconception relative to what Jesus' true message is.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Abraham wasn't a "Hebrew"

Abraham is considered "The First Hebrew".
The word 'Hebrew' means to have crossed over, in his case, from Ur, to the Land of Canaan.

. . . Jesus spoke of Daniel as a real person.

Jesus in Mark and Matthew said, "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" and "what Daniel the prophet spoke about".
Obviously Daniel was not there ten minutes earlier talking to the group. So Jesus had to mean, 'as it is written in the book of Daniel the prophet'.