A newly retired muzzled Canadian scientist speaks out.

So many bio researchers go missing it has warranted special scrutiny.

I think it is wrong on the part of the government to muzzle scientists,
and especially the research even if it is government funded,
what happened to government for the people?

S&F

Something like this happens in the United States as well. In the U.S. research scientists are often "pushed" or more like "coerced" to work for the U.S. government as shills and agents. The government leaks information about your personal life to them, which they are instructed to include in their conversation with you to make sure you know that the government is watching you.

This technique is often used to make sure secrets don't get out, but they also use this to make sure government scientists or any scientist do not oppose or argue against powerful political and economic interests (energy, oil, etc).

Also, I have noticed that the government tries to "push" scientists into a certain areas of research, and of course, they also steal ideas and give them to other scientists who are loyal to their baloney.

Originally posted by deloprator20000
Something like this happens in the United States as well. In the U.S. research scientists are often "pushed" or more like "coerced" to work for the U.S. government as shills and agents. The government leaks information about your personal life to them, which they are instructed to include in their conversation with you to make sure you know that the government is watching you.

This technique is often used to make sure secrets don't get out, but they also use this to make sure government scientists or any scientist do not oppose or argue against powerful political and economic interests (energy, oil, etc).

Do you have examples of this? I haven't heard of this recently, other than the usual pressure on climate scientists to "tone down" inconvenient results about the intensity and reality of climate change. But that doesn't usually come from official government people either, in most cases.

Also, I have noticed that the government tries to "push" scientists into a certain areas of research, and of course, they also steal ideas and give them to other scientists who are loyal to their baloney.

As far as "pushing", yes, that's always there---but it's more of a pull. They have strategic programs to pursue research in some areas of interest to the government and they give money for those areas specifically.

reply to post by aboutface


This whole mentality, of hiding results of research and muzzling people, even murdering them. All stems from covert actions that must be in place, for reasons of national security. I think the line that has to be very clear, is to easily blurred. I don't condone all secrecy by any means and murder, is murder of course. I do believe if we try to imagine, what is going on at the top, by placing ourselves there. And if we consider how easily humans can become desensitized ? We can then begin to see, just how that all important line, does be come blurred. As always, understanding is the key. Insert key, unlock problems. This is more productive then ranting and judging those that can just use people and then knock em off like a fly.

Considering the extremes governments are going to by pushing global warming, your OP provides support to the premise we are getting reamed.

reply to post by randyvs


National security is one thing, but in this case of fish and contamination of a river, it reeks of electioneering, in my view of things. The Harper government since day 1 has been spinning every single statement it makes make rather than answer a direct question with honesty and openness.

reply to post by aboutface


And of course I agree with your disagreement. It is as you say. Just pointing out where this mentality, this way of thinking gets put in gear. In the hope of identifying the problem clearly. That isn't to disagree with any of your findings. As I clearly do not. K?

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


Allow me to disagree a little, although I know where you're coming from. The researchers may be government employees, but let's not forget that it is the taxpayers who are the funders. I submit that the research therefore is not the property of politicians or a political party.

This is the reason no new medical treatments worth anything have emerged in the past 23 years.

I have a really basic question.

Why don't all these so called scientists release their information over the internet for all to see?

We live in a world where money rules, so of coarse the regular channels to get credit for ones work is being monitored.

It's time to start dialing in some common sense to match the high IQ, or else everything worthwhile will be conveniently suppressed.

reply to post by Realtruth


That would invite all the quacks and pseudo scientists to perhaps use it in a non-desirable way and or misinterpret it. Scientific research follows a set of rules and criteria that requires publication of the experiment in publications to be peer-reviewed, capable of being reproduced and examined by their peers, etc. If they were to simply "put it out there" without controls and analytical frameworks, then their reputations would quickly suffer and that would be the end of their professional opportunities.

reply to post by randyvs


No prob. I think we're on the same page, Randy. There has to be a balance, which obviously has been offset and put out of whack by some obsessive control paranoia. I've attended lots of scientific briefings and never once have I seen the need for media liaison people to do the entire presentations.

Originally posted by Aircooled
reply to post by _R4t_

 

Sorry, you spoke without thinking. I've done it. I've walked away from work because something really bad was going on, and told the people it would effect. It took me 10 seconds to decide. I guess that's why I find your defending of this practise so insulting. Speaks volumes about your character.

I have always wondered about the person who sells out humanity because "they have a job." The long standing global joke is, the Nazi's were NOT excused because they claimed there actions were part of the job. The world put a foot down saying, this is no excuse. Yet, as you point out, scientist after scientist figure hiding in their 50k job WITH BENEFITS, is way, way more important then bringing their findings up for public debate.

I applaud your exercise in total abject futility on the Fukashima beyond catastrophe. I find it totally remarkable that supposed learned people, with pathetically low income jobs, will state that this fiasco is neither a problem nor reason for examining the whole of the entire nuclear network. How in god's name can there be one, let alone thousands, who feel this issue - and possible future issues, do not need to be addressed by the entire planet right now?

Yet, thousands of people, who's education was paid for by the populace at large, arer so frightened, so fearful, so insecure, about losing a F*&^%ING JOB, they'd sooner tell people to eat produce from the Fukashima prefecture because there is no known study that states in isn't safe even though they know better.

Rant over.

__________________

When the Canadian government censors scientists it makes
you question what really happened to the other scientists as :
www.thestar.com...

www.cbc.ca...

. . . found dead

___________________

Governments are not private businesses and must not aim to act similarly.

Otherwise, why should I pay money to advance "science" which politicians will use as a weapon for their own purposes as opposed to improving human understanding and truth.

reply to post by mbkennel

Respectfully, I see this as sort of a whitewash. Really, even as a research scientist, do you believe that governments are NOT private businesses, and that they don't act and plan in concert? There is an incredible amount of information out there that what you say here is completely the opposite.

You pay that money, with the best intentions, thinking rightly this should ensure what you describe in terms of the purpose of the research and its being used for the best possible purposes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that is truly what is happening. It may only mean this is what you need to believe to do this work, and continue t have hope that you are providing information which will be used for all the right reasons.

There is a long history of scientists providing information through research to governments, which is used in ways the scientists, themselves, perhaps never intended....

Originally posted by Aircooled
reply to post by _R4t_

 

Sorry, you spoke without thinking. I've done it. I've walked away from work because something really bad was going on, and told the people it would effect. It took me 10 seconds to decide. I guess that's why I find your defending of this practise so insulting. Speaks volumes about your character.

I just have to say that I think this insult of yours is uncalled for and narrow-minded. When you have a family, you will do whatever you have to to protect it. Only people without family can live strickly by principle. When your actions affect the lives and security of others, you can't always follow your conscience, you have to be willing to sacrifice.

Families have always been used as hostages and are a much better 'lever' then direct threats. Why do you think that 'security' for generals is supplied by 'private contractors'? Think they are better able to protect their 'principles' then rank and file? Bah - it's to keep them in line with 'the program'.

First of all...nice avatar. I would love to know how that was done. I'm guessing the picture looked kinda like a face so someone photoshopped it a bit to finish it up. It looks amazing and almost believable.

Second, could you give a summary of the video? I was kinda surprised that the op did not explain what the big secret was that the government was trying to hide... Oh well. Must not be too earth shattering if you didn't mention it. But for others who come along after me, you may want to add something to the op if its possible to edit it. As for me, I'm too numbed by corruption in my own country so I'm sure this would be a yawn and a shrug for me if I were to actually look into it enough to find out what the secret was, since it wasn't mentioned in the op. I can only assume that the act of muzzling a scientist is a bigger issue than whatever the actual secret was, and I already know about that, so, no need for me to look any further I guess. Thanks for sharing bud.

The problem is that many good scientists are not good at lobbying which involves a lot of fraudster stuff. Only the scientists who can play political get their stuff out. At least since the mid nineties.

You are correct that anyone can get an article published on pubmed but don't underestimate the politics that many times completely disconnect science from truth, and reconnect it to such thinks as stock options.

Hi, government watchers !

As someone said:

what happened to government for the people?

We all know that government$ ARE NOT for the people !!

Government$ are for the the oil, big pharma, armament, etc. . .
We all know the ""trust?"" we can put on the FAA and FDA ?? B-)

!!! I AM SOOOOOOOOO ASHAMED of Canada, right now !!!
!!! I AM SOOOOOOOOO ASHAMED of ALL north America, right now !!!

Blue skies

reply to post by 3n19m470


Hi. Actually I did summarize the video in the last two paragraphs of the OP even though it seems a bit spastic (sorry for that). I went back to edit it for more clarity, but the two hours (used to be four hours, sigh) had run out.

PS. Thanks for the comment about the avatar. I have no idea how it was done because I am graphically challenged. It struck my fancy, so I chose it.