Sacrifice?

I had a discussion over the internet about this with a christian.

Now I have respect for jesus, this post does not say that he was a bad man.

First off, if you think about jesus' sacrifice, he died for our sins, making it so we could go to heaven. BUT lets think, how is dying in a world of pain to go into a a world of pure love a sacrifice?

He argued back, he died for our sins, not understanding the question at first. After further explanation he understood and said that he was brutally murdered. Well yes he was? But through that time he knew he would be entering a realm of pure love.

The question was then arised Would you die for someone?

I answered Yes, if I knew I would go to heaven. Was his death a sacrifice? I suppose you could argue both ways but this will obviously make some peopel angry. Once again I am not bashing jesus, or saying he was bad. I am merely stating if his death was really a give and take.

Was this term "sacrifice" used for more alterior motives...possibly.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Yngwie]

Originally posted by Yngwie
First off, if you think about jesus' sacrifice, he died for our sins, making it so we could go to heaven. BUT lets think, how is dying in a world of pain to go into a a world of pure love a sacrifice?

Actually (assuming the Bible is true) he knew from the beginning of time that he was going to die for three days and then come back to life. 100% guarantee. Set up by himself.

Foolproof.

He argued back, he died for our sins,

He could have just forgiven them. He could have turned all the clouds to gold and announced from heaven "Your sins are forgiven. Now go and obey THESE commandments" and every one, everywhere in the world would have heard the same information and een forgiven.

The question was then arised Would you die for someone?

I answered Yes, if I knew I would go to heaven. Was his death a sacrifice?

One of the other arguments I saw an agnostic used was "my aunt had cancer. It was incurable. She spent six years dying in horrible pain (I've seen cancers like this, by the way.) He suffers for a few hours and then dies and says he forgives everyone. A few hours is nothing compared to years of agony.