Is the Two State Soltution dead?

first all the older members know my stance on Israel
so I wont open an old can of worms

on the Point

the Two state solution

With Israel ignoring its UN obligations as a signatory to the Geneva convention

Article 49 - Population transfer
(The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.)

The Transfer of Israeli settlers onto occupied territory and construction of settlements and outposts

Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

the Destruction of solar power plants, Roads, Bridges and homes is really to stop military threat


en.wikipedia.org... tion_III._Occupied_territories


people can claim those lands belonged to Jordan and so forth, this does not nullify the legal obligations of Israel when it comes to the Rules of War.


now that Israel has expanded into Palestinian territory and plans to keep on expanding settlements,
turning the west bank into a jigsaw of settlements and outposts

the whole two state solution has been killed and butchered.


the only solution is a one state solution a country combined of Palestine and Israel
now Hamas and their far right supports may not like it and far right Israelis may not

at the end of the day the more Israel expands and the more land it seizes its just another nail in the coffin of a separate Palestinian state and majority Jewish state.


before a wonderful person comes in and goes you only support Palestinians because your Muslim
I am pretty agnostic these days, religion never really did factor in how i preserve things then or now

look forward to views on others on this

Or Israel could simply surround the squatters and push them into the sea.

That would solve the problem also.

reply to post by bodrul


Since when does Israel abide by any treaty, law, agreement or convention that favours anything or anyone unless themselves?

This is a rhetorical thread as much as my rhetorical question...

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by bodrul

 

Since when does Israel abide by any treaty, law, agreement or convention that favours anything or anyone unless themselves?

This is a rhetorical thread as much as my rhetorical question...

its not much Israel but the UN and the powers be
the US is the main sponsor of Israel and has some weight it does not use

in cases of Iran, north Korea and so on it is willing to use UN laws to act against those entities
but along with Britain and others it does nothing when Israel break UN treaties (this is one argument I had with my local MP)

end of the day its about the countries to enforce the laws with sanctions

Originally posted by Hopechest
Or Israel could simply surround the squatters and push them into the sea.

That would solve the problem also.

don't know if your being sarcastic or member standards have dropped over the years

reply to post by bodrul


The two state solution is almost dead, yes.
This is because the israeli terrorists have a bunch of brainwashed idiots convinced that they are ze master race and can murder anyone they see fit.
On the brighter side, the US is having a hard time paying the rent and soon we will have to kick the homeless gypsie euro trailer trash off of the couch and get a roomate that has a job and a moral compass.
Soon, very soon there will be a good day.

reply to post by Hopechest

Originally posted by Hopechest
Or Israel could simply surround the squatters and push them into the sea.

That would solve the problem also.

Thats what izrael is doing.

And how are they squatters when its their own land?

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Originally posted by Hopechest
Or Israel could simply surround the squatters and push them into the sea.

That would solve the problem also.

Thats what izrael is doing.

And how are they squatters when its their own land?

Sorry but land doesn't belong to anyone except those that are strong enough to stick their flag in it and defend it. I don't recall the world being created and the word Palestine etched into the mountainsides there.

Point is they have never had a leader there, they are basically nomads who were kicked out of all the surrounding countries and settled in what is now Israel. They were gifted that land for their help against the Ottoman Empire, which they never fulfilled by the way, and it can be taken away as easily as it was given.

If they want it they need to buck up and stake their claim by fighting for it. Not waving their hands around in the air while pointing to a piece of paper and claiming its theirs.

reply to post by Hopechest


This kind of attitude (no offense) is exactly why a two state solution will never happen.

Terribly archaic thinking. I guess that's the way it has to be for some people
cheers

Originally posted by canucks555
reply to post by Hopechest

 

This kind of attitude (no offense) is exactly why a two state solution will never happen.

Terribly archaic thinking. I guess that's the way it has to be for some people

cheers

Archaic but true nonetheless.

I'm not really into revisionist history like so many of the Palestinian supporters are.

reply to post by Hopechest


So you believe in "might makes right?" What a terrible philosophy.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Sorry but land doesn't belong to anyone except those that are strong enough to stick their flag in it and defend it. I don't recall the world being created and the word Palestine etched into the mountainsides there.

Point is they have never had a leader there, they are basically nomads who were kicked out of all the surrounding countries and settled in what is now Israel. They were gifted that land for their help against the Ottoman Empire, which they never fulfilled by the way, and it can be taken away as easily as it was given.

If they want it they need to buck up and stake their claim by fighting for it. Not waving their hands around in the air while pointing to a piece of paper and claiming its theirs.

This argument is flawed in so many ways

lets start with "nomads who were kicked out of all the surrounding countries and settled in what is now Israel"
the Israelite were nothing but Nomads kicked out of every country they were in
moving from desert to desert until they took over what philistine

then being booted again by the Romans and so forth before Laws were created to protect against colonization of countries, we have matured, hopefully we have somewhat from that era
leaving to what is now settled by Palestine

now as this has been discussed so many times and so many times members have posted articles to Palestine and the population i am going to point you to search, sadly as much as you want to discredit the Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza they have been living on that soil longer then the European and African and American Israeli settlers.

and now to your last point "If they want it they need to buck up and stake their claim by fighting for it. Not waving their hands around in the air while pointing to a piece of paper and claiming its theirs. " you sir are a moron

we have UN laws for a reason and countries who use those laws which Israel has done when it comes to exercising its rights when threatened by others is also expected to follow those laws it uses.

at the end of the day if you want to argue use some logic and not some medieval crap

good night

Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So you believe in "might makes right?" What a terrible philosophy.

I don't believe in anything, I simply observe the world and politics and see how it operates. Whether you believe in "might is right" or you don't, it is the way the world operates.

Always has and probably always will.

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by Hopechest
Sorry but land doesn't belong to anyone except those that are strong enough to stick their flag in it and defend it. I don't recall the world being created and the word Palestine etched into the mountainsides there.

Point is they have never had a leader there, they are basically nomads who were kicked out of all the surrounding countries and settled in what is now Israel. They were gifted that land for their help against the Ottoman Empire, which they never fulfilled by the way, and it can be taken away as easily as it was given.

If they want it they need to buck up and stake their claim by fighting for it. Not waving their hands around in the air while pointing to a piece of paper and claiming its theirs.

This argument is flawed in so many ways

lets start with "nomads who were kicked out of all the surrounding countries and settled in what is now Israel"
the Israelite were nothing but Nomads kicked out of every country they were in
moving from desert to desert until they took over what philistine

then being booted again by the Romans and so forth before Laws were created to protect against colonization of countries, we have matured, hopefully we have somewhat from that era
leaving to what is now settled by Palestine

now as this has been discussed so many times and so many times members have posted articles to Palestine and the population i am going to point you to search, sadly as much as you want to discredit the Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza they have been living on that soil longer then the European and African and American Israeli settlers.

and now to your last point "If they want it they need to buck up and stake their claim by fighting for it. Not waving their hands around in the air while pointing to a piece of paper and claiming its theirs. " you sir are a moron

we have UN laws for a reason and countries who use those laws which Israel has done when it comes to exercising its rights when threatened by others is also expected to follow those laws it uses.

at the end of the day if you want to argue use some logic and not some medieval crap

good night

edit on 4-4-2013 by bodrul because: (no reason given)

You haven't misproven anything I've said. Of course the Israelites were nomads also, I never said anything to the contrary but they were smart enough to align themselves with the power players in the world whereas the Palestinians were not.

Instead of asking yourself about silly UN rules you should be asking why the Arab community turned its back on Palestine during the two large jewish immigration pushes. It was at this point that the Palestinians should have begun fighting back instead of relying on some parliamentary governing body to decide their fate.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Or Israel could simply surround the squatters and push them into the sea.

That would solve the problem also.

Or Muslims can surround Israel and push them back to Europe where they came from and liberate Jerusalem from a bunch of Jewish/Christian fundamentalists who brought terror to the Middle East.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So you believe in "might makes right?" What a terrible philosophy.

I don't believe in anything, I simply observe the world and politics and see how it operates. Whether you believe in "might is right" or you don't, it is the way the world operates.

Always has and probably always will.

Not necessarily. Many people and entities throughout history have had the might to seize power but have not done so because it went against their moral philosophy. George Washington, for example, could have easily been crowned king, but voluntarily stepped down after his term because he wanted to see democracy thrive.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Originally posted by Hopechest

You haven't misproven anything I've said. Of course the Israelites were nomads also, I never said anything to the contrary but they were smart enough to align themselves with the power players in the world whereas the Palestinians were not.

Instead of asking yourself about silly UN rules you should be asking why the Arab community turned its back on Palestine during the two large jewish immigration pushes. It was at this point that the Palestinians should have begun fighting back instead of relying on some parliamentary governing body to decide their fate.

what is done is done
Israel holds the land for military purpose and has an axed them on the grounds of defense
hence the UN laws which surround and regulate what actions Israel can and cant do.

The war is Long over.

for you Silly UN rules to the rest of us these are principles all countries signed to should be following and sticking to, you cant pick and choose what laws you like and what you don't.

this is not the medieval era but the modern era.

you can stick to your medieval preaching
while the rest of us stay in the modern period

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Or Muslims can surround Israel and push them back to Europe where they came from and liberate Jerusalem from a bunch of Jewish/Christian fundamentalists who brought terror to the Middle East.

Or, everyone can just get along and live in peace and accept eachother's religious differences without anyone pushing anyone.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

reply to post by bodrul


I think it has been for some time now. Israel continues the blockade and to build settlements in disputed areas while the other side continues the terrorist attacks and both are aided by many different countries in the form of "aid". I don't agree with the opression from the Israel side or the terroist antics of the Palestine side. I think both should sit down have a few beers and a few hookas and get along. And the US don't need to be present period. We don't live there so why intervene?