Was Judas Jesus’ hero and most trusted disciple?

Was Judas Jesus’ hero and most trusted disciple?

Remember that Judas was Jesus’ banker or treasurer.

Without the so called betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us.

Yet scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was not to die as the old prophesies said that he would live and lead.

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Was Judas the hero of Jesus’ drama or was he a villain?

Was the story of Judas strictly spiritual or was he a real character?

If real to you, was Jesus sent here to live or was he sent to die?

The Jewish tradition says he was to live and lead and Judas’ depression induced suicide says that he thought the same.

Was Judas a good man don’t Jesus will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


well if it wasnt for judas he wouldnt hang around in da cross.... so yes,
i have pondered this also sometimes...
he had the most important task of all...

reply to post by Greatest I am


I think Jesus came here to die, as we all do. We come here to complete a task and once the task is complete we are finished.

Judas was trusted to do what he was supposed to do and did do. He didn't fail and fulfilled the task he was to fulfill as well.

reply to post by MamaJ


did judas commit a sin?

Originally posted by solve
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

well if it wasnt for judas he wouldnt hang around in da cross.... so yes,
i have pondered this also sometimes...
he had the most important task of all...

edit on 4-4-2013 by solve because: (no reason given)

True and the bible seems to back it up even though the Christians tend not to see it and just follow what the church feeds them.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I think Jesus came here to die, as we all do. We come here to complete a task and once the task is complete we are finished.

Judas was trusted to do what he was supposed to do and did do. He didn't fail and fulfilled the task he was to fulfill as well.

Reincarnation has as much proof as miracle working super absentee Gods.

If you remember passing then you know that you only have to suffer the pain and pleasure of apotheosis one time.

God does not have to touch you more than once. The Godhead is not the loser than the Christian dogma makes him out to be.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


Well, according to the book it states that Judas was possessed by Satan before going to the religious authorities before turning him in. If this was true and Judas was actually possessed then he isn't responsible for his actions.

Also the videos assumption that what happened was predestined at that point may be true. Something I discovered was that the first century Jews had triggered the curse of Malachi. A 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse for causing the death of John the Baptist. Who Jesus Christ claimed was Elijah the prophet in Matthew 17.

The job of Messiah in the first century AD was supposed to have been a 3 or 4 man job per the book of Malachi.

reply to post by ntech


if judas was possessed, it corrects the paradox,,, cool...

Originally posted by ntech
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Well, according to the book it states that Judas was possessed by Satan before going to the religious authorities before turning him in. If this was true and Judas was actually possessed then he isn't responsible for his actions.

Also the videos assumption that what happened was predestined at that point may be true. Something I discovered was that the first century Jews had triggered the curse of Malachi. A 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse for causing the death of John the Baptist. Who Jesus Christ claimed was Elijah the prophet in Matthew 17.

The job of Messiah in the first century AD was supposed to have been a 3 or 4 man job per the book of Malachi.

Whatever you say but you should also know that the Jews do not take their scriptures literally.

If Moses was real and had believed in the God who said though shalt not kill, do you think he would have killed three thousand of his people just after getting the big 10 the way the script says he did?

Regards
DL

Oops, his was to be a part of the O P.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

I note when reading the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper, that when Jesus says, "One of you will betray Me," His disciples respond, not with denial, but with "Is it I, Lord?" It seems to me that the disciples were taking it as the announcement of an assignment, and wanted to know who had been assigned. Jesus then told them how the assignment would fall to the candidate - He would dip some bread in the sop, and offer it to the candidate, in this case, Judas. I think Judas took the morsel unthinking, and then had an OMG moment. Jesus told him to do it quickly, and he did. Later, he came to his senses just as Peter did, but with a very different outcome...

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by solve
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

well if it wasnt for judas he wouldnt hang around in da cross.... so yes,
i have pondered this also sometimes...
he had the most important task of all...

edit on 4-4-2013 by solve because: (no reason given)

True and the bible seems to back it up even though the Christians tend not to see it and just follow what the church feeds them.

Judas is the other half of the equation; is just as much a hero as Jesus in allowing for actionable retaliation. Look at the conversation and theocratic queries this allowed throughout countless generations of DEEP reflection. Without the Judas betrayal (of Jesus) as good script writing goes the soap opera would be lacking the evil componant, that which is lurking as ones best friend disciple. Shakespeare had nothing on this, not even with Hamlet. Without Judas there would be NO STORY TO TELL as it is one of ultimate betrayal. Here is the problem, JUDAS was actually a Metaphor for God. God betrayed Jesus Period, as a self sacrifice to atone for itself and thousands of years of Its own misdeeds.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I note when reading the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper, that when Jesus says, "One of you will betray Me," His disciples respond, not with denial, but with "Is it I, Lord?" It seems to me that the disciples were taking it as the announcement of an assignment, and wanted to know who had been assigned. Jesus then told them how the assignment would fall to the candidate - He would dip some bread in the sop, and offer it to the candidate, in this case, Judas. I think Judas took the morsel unthinking, and then had an OMG moment. Jesus told him to do it quickly, and he did. Later, he came to his senses just as Peter did, but with a very different outcome...

Yes. Most of the responces are strange. Even when Judas rose, one would think that the other 11 would have argued or tried to refrain his actions. But no one raised a finger.

Came to his senses?

Are you saying that Judas should have refused to do his master such a great favor?
Are you saying that he was foolish to do the will of Jesus?

Regards
DL

God knew Judas was going to betray Jesus.
God made him specifically to do this and have him die for our sins.

He carries out the duty that God made him for, and the poor guy ended up killing himself out of guilt.

He then gets sent to Hell. Not any place in hell, either, he probably gets a nice, specially gruesome and torturous spot for doing what God wanted him to do

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by solve
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

well if it wasnt for judas he wouldnt hang around in da cross.... so yes,
i have pondered this also sometimes...
he had the most important task of all...

edit on 4-4-2013 by solve because: (no reason given)

True and the bible seems to back it up even though the Christians tend not to see it and just follow what the church feeds them.

Judas is the other half of the equation; is just as much a hero as Jesus in allowing for actionable retaliation. Look at the conversation and theocratic queries this allowed throughout countless generations of DEEP reflection. Without the Judas betrayal (of Jesus) as good script writing goes the soap opera would be lacking the evil componant, that which is lurking as ones best friend disciple. Shakespeare had nothing on this, not even with Hamlet. Without Judas there would be NO STORY TO TELL as it is one of ultimate betrayal. Here is the problem, JUDAS was actually a Metaphor for God. God betrayed Jesus Period, as a self sacrifice to atone for itself and thousands of years of Its own misdeeds.

edit on 4-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

The beauty of myths is that there can be many morals taken from them. That is something literalists throw away along with reason and logic for faith and they almost never get things right.

It could be that the moral of this part of the story is one of friendship and teaching that there should be no limit to what a friend will do.

Something like this clip shows for modern man.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Came to his senses?

Are you saying that Judas should have refused to do his master such a great favor?
Are you saying that he was foolish to do the will of Jesus?

Regards
DL

I am saying that Judas did his part in God's Plan, but he had his own agenda, whatever it may have been. When he realized the enormity of his betrayal, he repented of what he had done, and tried to return the money. The Gospel accounts state that Satan entered him - I'm assuming that Satan left Judas once the deed was done, just like tossing aside an unused tool, and Judas came to his proper state of mind.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
God betrayed Jesus Period, as a self sacrifice to atone for itself and thousands of years of Its own misdeeds.

edit on 4-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Hahah, oh that made me giggle. Don't misunderstand, no sarcasm, genuinely made me laugh. It's one of those little thoughts I've had often regarding the whole scenario, especially in light of the change God makes from Old to New Testament. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say it, which is what made me smile.

Originally posted by JackofBlades

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
God betrayed Jesus Period, as a self sacrifice to atone for itself and thousands of years of Its own misdeeds.

Hahah, oh that made me giggle. Don't misunderstand, no sarcasm, genuinely made me laugh. It's one of those little thoughts I've had often regarding the whole scenario, especially in light of the change God makes from Old to New Testament. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say it, which is what made me smile.

Thankyou Jack, you see it as well.
God turns over a new leaf, instamatically, on QUE New Testament Changes Everything, except for those still reading the Old one. Jesus as sacrifice to/for God and his twin brother Satan, pulled it off and all is swell now in the garden with the human (except some of us know this fictionary account as what it is MAKE BELIEVE) twiddling of thumbs,"how long can I get away with this, the manufacturing of my own sacrifice (not Jesus's for humanity), the cleansing of past AND ALL FUTURE DEEDS done by Yours Truely, and going unscathed"; a setup extraordinaire, start to brilliant conclusion; pure and unsaliable and as always beyond the thinking mans reach as I hid it (my true intent) so well.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Came to his senses?

Are you saying that Judas should have refused to do his master such a great favor?
Are you saying that he was foolish to do the will of Jesus?

Regards
DL

I am saying that Judas did his part in God's Plan, but he had his own agenda, whatever it may have been. When he realized the enormity of his betrayal, he repented of what he had done, and tried to return the money. The Gospel accounts state that Satan entered him - I'm assuming that Satan left Judas once the deed was done, just like tossing aside an unused tool, and Judas came to his proper state of mind.

So God had planned for Judas to be taken over by Satan.

That makes him innocent of betraying Jesus. Right?
Satan was the guilty one. Right?

Look up the word sop and show how that cannot be a bribe or supplication to a friend. That is what Jesus was doing. That is also why the other 11 sat back and did not try to convince Judas to not do the deed.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by JackofBlades

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
God betrayed Jesus Period, as a self sacrifice to atone for itself and thousands of years of Its own misdeeds.

Hahah, oh that made me giggle. Don't misunderstand, no sarcasm, genuinely made me laugh. It's one of those little thoughts I've had often regarding the whole scenario, especially in light of the change God makes from Old to New Testament. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say it, which is what made me smile.

Thankyou Jack, you see it as well.
God turns over a new leaf, instamatically, on QUE New Testament Changes Everything, except for those still reading the Old one. Jesus as sacrifice to/for God and his twin brother Satan, pulled it off and all is swell now in the garden with the human (except some of us know this fictionary account as what it is MAKE BELIEVE) twiddling of thumbs,"how long can I get away with this, the manufacturing of my own sacrifice (not Jesus's for humanity), the cleansing of past AND ALL FUTURE DEEDS done by Yours Truely, and going unscathed"; a setup extraordinaire, start to brilliant conclusion; pure and unsaliable and as always beyond the thinking mans reach as I hid it (my true intent) so well.

edit on 7-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Are you suggesting that there might not be truth in the bible and N T. Tsk tsk.

Just kidding.

I agree.

Have you seen this?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL