Everybody should not have the option of getting a gun

Originally posted by Bioshock

Originally posted by Cabin
How we got out: hundreds of thousands of people came together and sang national songs.

So if someone breaks in my house I should sing him a song? Why didn't I ever think of that?!

America, we don't need to learn how to protect ourselves! The answer is so simple! Just sing songs!

That example was simply to demonstrate that nation overally is peaceful.

Burglaries are different thing.

When somebody breaks in my house, it is extremely unlikely that they would have a gun, so taser or pepper spray is just enough against 99% of criminals. It is not easy for most people to get guns.

Couple of years ago, I had my apartment broken into at night. I simply tasered the guy and called the police. Overally bat or knowing martial arts would help out easily as burglars are usually low-level criminals without no skillset and kicking their ass is near to nothing.

Later it turned out the guy was about to have his family kicked out to street and out desperation he tried to get enough money for paying the bank his house loan. I did not press charges.To be honest, I paid him his next two-month loan and had my friend give him and his wife a job. So far my friend has been extremely satisfied with them as employees, always hearing good words about them. I feel as I did the right thing and have no regrets in doing it.

Always things are not as they seem. I do not see myself having a right of killing somebody. Is it my right to kill a father of four, simply because he does not want to lose their home? Is it his fault that US bankers became too greedy and cause world-wide economical crisis, which bankrupted his previous company and made him lose his job? Most low-level criminals start out of desperation and desperation should not be considered worthy of capital punishment.

1) People with mental problems should never be allowed to (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial).


Any disorder, which could have anger management issues, like ADHD, should also not be allowed to (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial). . Also people who have mental problems that need to be dealt with prescription drugs. Full mental evaluation from government facilitated mental hospitals should be done first. Private practicioners should not be counted.

2) Drug addicts should not be allowed to (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial). - common sense

3) People with criminal record should not be allowed to (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial). - common sense.

4) I believe the financial stability of a person should be considered somehow. Most criminals in the world have started out due to financial difficulties. The first thing that comes to mind (which would not be require much extra tests or paperwork) would be education, as uneducated people are more likely to fall into financial difficulties (especially when they are not very intelligent, which often (not always) uneducated people tend to be) , which could lead desperate people to criminal world. At least high school education should be required if not higher education (I would prefer the latter personally). Although there might be better ways to consider or predict the likelyhood of a person falling into financial trouble and doing something illegal to get out of it. Intelligence seems too harsh to be considered, as IQ-test does not predict that much. Maybe someone can suggest something for it?

Recheck every couple of years is needed.

I personally do not believe these are even "strict" rules. Rather soft to be true. After mental, criminal, educational and addiction records are evaluated any person can (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial). . Criminals and people with mental issues/addictions should never have an option to (own property)(speak)(have a right to a fair trial).


See why you dont go down this road? What you just called for was the elimination of someones right based on your personal feelings. Yes today it is someone elses rights you are trampling on. But who is to say that somewhere in the future public opinion moves to another "evil thing that should be banned" and say that anyone who has ever posted on "conspiracy theory" websited like ATS is no longer allowed to speak in public to anoyone or about anything, or they claim that ATS posters should be stripped of their property. You support everyones right regardless of whether you agree with that right or not. Because if you sit back or actively engage in the stripping of somoenes fundamemtal right then one day they will come after the ones you cherish

..First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

reply to post by Cabin

reply to post by Cabin


never said you didn't have the right to say your piece, i asked why you would waste your time talking about a subject, you don't have much knowledge on....

if you have no idea how the laws here work, why would you talk about them?


This is one of the most intelligent questions asked on your thread OP, care to answer it? I mean I could sit here and go on and on about how skydiving is a dumb dangerous hobby. But then again I have never been skydiving, so in reality, I would not know what the hell I was talking about now would I?

Originally posted by Cabin

Originally posted by Bioshock

Originally posted by Cabin
How we got out: hundreds of thousands of people came together and sang national songs.

So if someone breaks in my house I should sing him a song? Why didn't I ever think of that?!

America, we don't need to learn how to protect ourselves! The answer is so simple! Just sing songs!

When somebody breaks in my house, it is extremely unlikely that they would have a gun, so taser or pepper spray is just enough against 99% of criminals. It is not easy for most people to get guns.

Couple of years ago, I had my apartment broken into at night. I simply tasered the guy and called the police. Overally bat or knowing martial arts would help out easily as burglars are usually low-level criminals without no skillset and kicking their ass is near to nothing.

Later it turned out the guy was about to have his family kicked out to street and out desperation he tried to get enough money for paying the bank his house loan. I did not press charges.To be honest, I paid him his next two-month loan and had my friend give him and his wife a job. So far my friend has been extremely satisfied with them as employees, always hearing good words about them. I feel as I did the right thing and have no regrets in doing it.

Always things are not as they seem. I do not see myself having a right of killing somebody. Is it my right to kill a father of four, simply because he does not want to lose their home? Is it his fault that US bankers became too greedy and cause world-wide economical crisis, which bankrupted his previous company and made him lose his job? Most low-level criminals start out of desperation and desperation should not be considered worthy of capital punishment.

edit on 6-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

Imagine for a minute in your scenario that your home intruder was armed with a firearm. And lets suppose for a second that he was an armed sociopathic professional burglar instead of a husband turned wanna be thief that breaks into your house with the intention of robbing you, raping and torturing your wife and daughter and murdering everyone. ( It is not an implausible scenario, it happens all the time.) The fact is, you have no idea what the intentions of an intruder are. In your case here, it turned out fine, but could have been very very different. Do you really want an armed intruder waking you up at night and all you have is pepper spray?

I personally will do whatever it takes to defend my family and home. I am not saying that I want to kill anyone else either, I pray it never comes to that. For most people, just knowing there is a weapon being pointed at them is enough for them to freeze. However, I want the option to use lethal force to stop what very well may be a horrible thing about to happen. My wife and my daughter both know how to operate and fire a weapon and they also know the most important rule. That if you ever point a weapon at someone, you had better be willing to use it. Call the cops you say? I live out in a very rural area and it would take at least 20-30 minutes for any cops to get here. Instead of calling someone with a gun and hoping that they get there in time, I would much prefer to defend myself in this scenario.

I read an article a while back about this town in Arkansas who had a sheriff that got the city to pass an ordinance requiring homeowners to own a firearm. The result was within a year burglaries and armed robberies had decreased 90 percent. So again, this whole thing you keep saying about poor people and robberies and guns being all tied together is idiotic in the extreme.

I also remember reading a while back about how the American Wild west was really not so wild. The embellishments of authors like E.B. Cummings and the western novels of other writers had led to this whole public perception of cowboy shoot outs and good guys and bad guys all shooting each other with their revolvers on a daily basis. Turns out it was nothing like that at all, the wild west was not so wild after all. Do you know why? Because everyone WAS ARMED. An armed society is a polite society.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Cabin

 

reply to post by Cabin


never said you didn't have the right to say your piece, i asked why you would waste your time talking about a subject, you don't have much knowledge on....

if you have no idea how the laws here work, why would you talk about them?


This is one of the most intelligent questions asked on your thread OP, care to answer it? I mean I could sit here and go on and on about how skydiving is a dumb dangerous hobby. But then again I have never been skydiving, so in reality, I would not know what the hell I was talking about now would I?

I just stated my opinion about guns. I knew many Americans would start bashing me and to be honest, that was one of the personal reasons why I made this thread. I am overally interested in American mindset. It is not because I plan on living in USA (I might go to university, but it is highly unlikely I will even residence there), although I am planning on starting my website and USA is a major market (don´t worry, it will be free of charge). That is why I am interested in understanding Americans.

America is so similar and at the same time so different from Europe. All the Hollywood movies make it seem like Americans think and act like we do, yet the culture difference is immense. Any European country is more similar to another European country than it is to America...

I simply took 3 things that are common in nearly any European country and added one of my own (I knew it is gonna be more controversial, although I actually believe in it) and wanted to see.what possible reasons can be found against the first 3, which are widely used in European countries.For me personally, these things seem too logical to even question the rightfulness of them.

I understand your point about not understanding , although I personally do not agree.

Skydiving is one thing, although guns are different. I also do not agree when someone compares gun kills to heart attacks. In one situation, somebody threatens themselves (personal responsibility), in other situation they are dangerous to other people.I believe hese are too different things to compare.

I personally see your statement as: If you havent killed anybody you have no option to take stand in murders or if you havent participated in a war, you can not say war is bad/wrong.

Ok, but thats enough of it. I hope you understood my overall point. I simply was interested in the mindsets of different cultures Call it a cultural experiment if you want to

Originally posted by Cabin

I just stated my opinion about guns. I knew many Americans would start bashing me and to be honest, that was one of the personal reasons why I made this thread. I am overally interested in American mindset. It is not because I plan on living in USA (I might go to university, but it is highly unlikely I will even residence there), although I am planning on starting my website and USA is a major market (don´t worry, it will be free of charge). That is why I am interested in understanding Americans.

America is so similar and at the same time so different from Europe. All the Hollywood movies make it seem like Americans think and act like we do, yet the culture difference is immense. Any European country is more similar to another European country than it is to America...

First off, not all Americans are the same. Do you know why it is sometimes refered to as the melting pot? Because there are alot of different people/cultures/heritages all migled together here. It is a very large country with alot of differences in mindset depending on where you go. There are many different types of people in America just like there are many different cultures in Europe. It is impossible to lump everyone in the same category. And also, anything you see in the movies should not be taken seriously. Since they are you know.....movies.

Originally posted by Cabin
I simply took 3 things that are common in nearly any European country and added one of my own (I knew it is gonna be more controversial, although I actually believe in it) and wanted to see.what possible reasons can be found against the first 3, which are widely used in European countries.For me personally, these things seem too logical to even question the rightfulness of them.

Because again, you have been raised with this notion your entire life. That is the only reason it makes so much sense to you. What do you think you would say if you were raised in a culture opposite the anti-gun one that you know?

Originally posted by Cabin
I understand your point about not understanding , although I personally do not agree.

Skydiving is one thing, although guns are different. I also do not agree when someone compares gun kills to heart attacks. In one situation, somebody threatens themselves (personal responsibility), in other situation they are dangerous to other people.I believe hese are too different things to compare.

I personally see your statement as: If you havent killed anybody you have no option to take stand in murders or if you havent participated in a war, you can not say war is bad/wrong.

Now you are again letting your ignorance show and are comparing apples to oranges. War affects everyone in a country, as can violent murders. In one form or another with or without guns being involved. You do not have to participate in it to be affected by it. I personally am a veteran of two wars, so I know firsthand the effects it has on people that are not even soldiers. Me having a firearm only affects me, and possibly people that want to do harm to my home and family.

I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion, I am just saying that your opinion is very biased and wildly ignorant. I hope this thread has educated you a bit.

And by the way, it would be nice if you answered some more of the questions asked to you by myself and other posters instead of just picking and choosing the ones that you can answer without sounding like a total ignoramus.

This was a Drug lords stash.
I dont think he cares about laws.
The gun bans will only make people like this more $$$

United States' 12,000 miles of coastline and millions of square miles of interior
When would the island be large enough to sustain a weapons-free environment?
In the United States people and cargoes move across state lines without supervision or hindrance.
Local shortages of goods are always transient, no matter whether the shortage is induced by natural disasters, prohibitory laws, or something else.
It is foolish to let anything ride on hopes for effective gun control. As long as crime pays as well as it does, we will have plenty of it, and honest folk must choose between being victims and defending themselves.
Turning the average law abiding American gun owner and Constitutionalist into a domestic terrorist by attacking and provoking them to defend a line in the sand.. ........

Meanwhile our wealth, productivity, land, property, and illusions of freedom and sovereignty are being sucked out of us..... but to swquack on websites and forums without actually doing anything.

This realization, it seems, is the true state of “waking up”.

It’s like living in a fantasy world, and each new idea creates a new twist to the plot that never has any actual ending, because the social media stops people from actually BEHEADING the queen or the Pope or the presidents and instead keeps us in a dream state of socially interconnected nonsense!
Welcome to your self-created and perpetuated Matrix – Facebook, Infowars, Youtube
That is why social media was invented and so well funded by governments and corporations – not to connect the people to the world but to disconnect the people of our country by making them interconnected in their minds.

This is the Matrix....

We are victims of our own ignorance and willful consent and compliance to the tyranny and oppression......

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

First off, not all Americans are the same. Do you know why it is sometimes refered to as the melting pot? Because there are alot of different people/cultures/heritages all migled together here. It is a very large country with alot of differences in mindset depending on where you go. There are many different types of people in America just like there are many different cultures in Europe. It is impossible to lump everyone in the same category. And also, anything you see in the movies should not be taken seriously. Since they are you know.....movies.

Every country is a melting pot. I have lived in 9 different countries, including USA. I dealt with educational matters in USA and to be honest, there is "average" American. Out of 1500 americans 1000 I had a conversation with 1000 had similar beliefs(small differences) about education . Although I lived in a state in NW area of USA which had not much different cultures in it (more Europeans and nearly no latinos/African-Americans). If every European country it is similar, there is average Spanish, average German, average French etc. Every culture is different, so is American. I am not lumping everyone in the same category. I know there are all kinds of people, although after a chat with many people in certain country, in every culture certain characteristics stick out, although never everybody have the same characteristics, maybe 50% of nearly any country tend to be more similar to each other and the other 50% is a mix of different beliefs. Although I never approach somebody having stereotypes about them.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

Because again, you have been raised with this notion your entire life. That is the only reason it makes so much sense to you. What do you think you would say if you were raised in a culture opposite the anti-gun one that you know?

I stated it in my previous post. I understand American culture is not anti-gun culture. I wanted to see how people from gun-culture respond to the beliefs of somebody who has been raised in anti-gun culture. Just curiosity.

[

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Now you are again letting your ignorance show and are comparing apples to oranges. War affects everyone in a country, as can violent murders. In one form or another with or without guns being involved. You do not have to participate in it to be affected by it. I personally am a veteran of two wars, so I know firsthand the effects it has on people that are not even soldiers. Me having a firearm only affects me, and possibly people that want to do harm to my home and family.

I respect veterans. I understand how wars affect people and how hard they are psychologically to deal with.
My mothers grandparents were sent to Siberia on animal wagons. My fathers grandfather died in war. I have been told lots of war stories (my grandparents grew up in circumstances of war) and I understand consequences of war on people.

We have been raised in different cultures and different beliefs. I see guns as means of violence, you see guns as means of protection. I agree with you, although boths of us are right in some way. Guns can be used as both - means of protection and means of violence . I am never implying you may want harm anyone innocent, although many people use guns for personal gain.

[

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion, I am just saying that your opinion is very biased and wildly ignorant. I hope this thread has educated you a bit.

I apologise if I appeared ignorant.

[

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And by the way, it would be nice if you answered some more of the questions asked to you by myself and other posters instead of just picking and choosing the ones that you can answer without sounding like a total ignoramus.

I have tried to answer as many posts as possible. I have noticed several posts, especially in the latter ones, are asking questions which have been answered in previous posts of mine a´la how to determine whether someone is psychologically fit or not? or questioning the reliability of government (giving too much power to them)?

I have not hand-picked out any posts, simply timewise I do not have tme to answer to all posts.

It's a good thing these rules aren't law.
Amen to that.

Originally posted by madenusa

It’s like living in a fantasy world, and each new idea creates a new twist to the plot that never has any actual ending, because the social media stops people from actually BEHEADING the queen or the Pope or the presidents and instead keeps us in a dream state of socially interconnected nonsense!
Welcome to your self-created and perpetuated Matrix – Facebook, Infowars, Youtube
That is why social media was invented and so well funded by governments and corporations – not to connect the people to the world but to disconnect the people of our country by making them interconnected in their minds.

This is the Matrix....

We are victims of our own ignorance and willful consent and compliance to the tyranny and oppression......

I like the way you think. And I like your view on social media destroying us from within.

reply to post by Cabin

Criminals [...] should never have an option of obtaining a fire-arm legally...

That's so brilliant!!

I have another one: We could make something which we call "law" and simply make it illegal to murder someone?
Combine that with your idea of making it illegal for criminals to obtain a fire-arm legally, we might have paradise on Earth!!

(I am writing to the president right now proposing this, since it's pure genius!)

/Sorry guys, VERY sarcastic today

Originally posted by Bioshock

Originally posted by Cabin
How we got out: hundreds of thousands of people came together and sang national songs.

So if someone breaks in my house I should sing him a song? Why didn't I ever think of that?!

America, we don't need to learn how to protect ourselves! The answer is so simple! Just sing songs!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

haha...ha....hahaha...

ahh....that was good......welcome to the club, rookie...

a song, he says....hahahahahaha...

Originally posted by Cabin

That example was simply to demonstrate that nation overally is peaceful.

Burglaries are different thing.

When somebody breaks in my house, it is extremely unlikely that they would have a gun, so taser or pepper spray is just enough against 99% of criminals. It is not easy for most people to get guns.

Couple of years ago, I had my apartment broken into at night. I simply tasered the guy and called the police. Overally bat or knowing martial arts would help out easily as burglars are usually low-level criminals without no skillset and kicking their ass is near to nothing.

Later it turned out the guy was about to have his family kicked out to street and out desperation he tried to get enough money for paying the bank his house loan. I did not press charges.To be honest, I paid him his next two-month loan and had my friend give him and his wife a job. So far my friend has been extremely satisfied with them as employees, always hearing good words about them. I feel as I did the right thing and have no regrets in doing it.

Always things are not as they seem. I do not see myself having a right of killing somebody. Is it my right to kill a father of four, simply because he does not want to lose their home? Is it his fault that US bankers became too greedy and cause world-wide economical crisis, which bankrupted his previous company and made him lose his job? Most low-level criminals start out of desperation and desperation should not be considered worthy of capital punishment.

edit on 6-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

you're very naive, and stupid.

you did a good thing, helping those people, don't get me wrong...

where you're stupid is the assertion that U.S. bankers caused the problem..as if my country is the reason the world is in the crapper....no...INTERNATIONAL bankers caused the problem, and don't think we're not feeling it over here too....

you're also stupid because you believe that criminals here are as pathetic as the criminals in your part of your country (where are you from, again?). and because you believe it's not easy to get guns where you are, and because you believe that EVERY american with a gun is a dangerous beast, and that we shoot people just to shoot them. my house has been broken into before...and i'm VERY HAPPY to have had my pistol....i'd rather confront an intruder with my gun, and have them run off, or surrender, than beat the piss out of them with my hands or a club... and just because you pull the trigger, that doesn't mean your target dies...

you're horribly uninformed about a great many things, and it seems you have this rather disgusting anti-U.S. thing going, based on, what looks like, absolutely nothing solid...

-shrug- it's you're choice, it's just disappointing is all..

reply to post by Cabin


Not every country is a melting pot sir. Not to the extent that America is. When I was stationed in Germany I met far more Germans than I did any other nationality. When I visited France, Czech republic, Austria, Spain, Portugal, all of those countries had a much higher percentage of their respective populations than any other nationality. I am not saying that there are no people from foreign lands in these countries, there are. Not nearly to the extent to the differences in cultures/heritage/beliefs that are here in the US. I live in central Louisiana, and you have all types just in this one little area, rednecks, asians, africans, mexicans, cajuns, frenchmen, on and on.

You say you lived in the Pacific Northwest for a while. If you had went to somewhere like Hawaii instead, you would have probably held a different opinion of what constituted your "average American." Same if you had went to the Northeastern US, or if you had went to Mississippi, or Texas. And as anyone who is from Texas can tell you, there is major differences in the state of Texas itself depending on where you go. east TX, west TX, the border towns, and the peoples republic of Austin (my sister lives there and thats what I hear her call it, cracks me up.)

And fyi not all Americans are pro-gun. There are many who ignorantly think as you that the government can and should regulate every aspect of it. I have never ever seen any of my firearms going off and shooting by themselves. There has to always be a person at the end of it pulling the trigger.

"Amendment II. A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The last part of that amendment makes it very clear that all gun legislation is unconstitutional. Every one of them.

I read a story online a while back about a mall shooter who was stopped after injuring two people. The man who stopped him was a private citizen who had a conceal carry permit. Of course, that story never made it on the 6 o'clock news. The best defense against a perpetrator trying to hurt someone else with a gun is for the victim to be armed as well.

Maybe I can pick and choose some of the questions and comments that I would like to see you respond to since you do not have time to read them all.

"points 3 and 1 of yours especially would pertain to many members of the US government, who is going to take away their guns?"

"They can't even keep drugs out of the prison here, so what makes you think even more totalitarian gun laws are going to keep guns out of criminal hands?"

"guns are a tool, and can be used for good and bad like any other tool. So how is making guns basically outlawed going to stop violent crime?"

Those are just a few, i'm sure I could re-read this thread and find many more.

As another poster pointer out, points 1-3 of yours are already laws here in America.

You said yourself in a previous post that most rights aren't taken seriously or thought much of where you are at and you haven't even read your countries constitution. Which is funny considering you also said that Americans have less rights than you do. How would you know if you don't even know what your rights are?

Over here in the US, anyone who has lived for a few decades can see the gradual erosion of rights and civil liberties and how it is accelerating. If nobody has any teeth except those in power, then everyone else is at the total mercy of those in power. History has shown time and again that when a population has no way to defend itself from not just individuals who want to do you harm, but also from tyrannical leaders, bad things always follow.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


and the worst part is that he didn't even really answer MY question....he sidestepped it, and gave a speech about more or less, unrelated things.....

Unbelievable. Financial stability a factor in owning a firearm?

This is pretty sick. Yea, completely disarm the poor.. that makes perfect sense. Wonder where that one is headed?

reply to post by Daedalus


So far his only answer to everything is because thats the way it is done over where he is. And he still has not clarifies where that is exactly. I think I am done posting on this nonsensical thread, time to let it drift down to the deep dark bowels of ATS where it belongs.

reply to post by Cabin


I saw this graph on another site and it contains alot of information that you might find useful.

Or you can ignore it and cling to your notions that you have already stated.

www.blacklistednews.com...

1.5x as many homicides were commited with blunt objects than rifles last year.

2.2 times as many homicides were commited with fists.

5.2 times as many homicides were commited with knives.

2.6 percent of all murders last year involved rifles.

Those are just some of the statistics, click and read for yourself.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Cabin

 

I saw this graph on another site and it contains alot of information that you might find useful.

Or you can ignore it and cling to your notions that you have already stated.

www.blacklistednews.com...

1.5x as many homicides were commited with blunt objects than rifles last year.

2.2 times as many homicides were commited with fists.

5.2 times as many homicides were commited with knives.

2.6 percent of all murders last year involved rifles.

Those are just some of the statistics, click and read for yourself.

This is handpicked statistics (not bogus), but not reliable either

It probably used that statistics as basis.

www.fbi.gov...

1) Only rifles are considered. If all firearms were considered, then 67,8% would be commited with firearms.Only 2,6% of murders involved rifles, but 67,8% of murders involved firearms. In the gun count (89/100) all guns are used in statistics, although when the author of the article compares gun deaths, he only uses rifles.

2)America is compared to 3rd world countries... The overall development of the country should be considered, so when comparing countries like America with others, then only European countries, Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc. Even all European countries would not fit the comparison, as in some countries poverty plays too much role, poverty and crime go hand in hand. Countries on similar level should only be counted. Compared to advanced European countries USA has by far more gun deaths. 2,6x more than 7 other similar countries and over 4x more than any other European country. For example, 10x more than Australia, 145x more gun deaths than in Japan. In Europe there is also a trend that the more firearms people have, the higher rate of fire-arm related deaths. For example Switzerland and Finland both have the most fire-arms and they are also leading the European gun-violence tables.

I understand that many people use guns as self-protection, although many use these as means of violence.

You use guns as self-protection, although how can you ensure that everybody else uses it for the same reason.

Somebody mentioned that criminal are dumber here. Actually smarter by not using a gun, as using/having a gun (especially illegal one) during committing a crime results in times higher punishment. No smart criminal would use a gun if they knew their punishment will be over 3 times harder. For example, for burglars if they are caught, they would get quite light punishment at first time (1-2 years), although if they had a gun with them, immediately the punishment would be 5-10 years. It is too much of a risk to use gun when committing a crime...

reply to post by Cabin


You are also conveniently ignoring many points in that graph, maybe you did not have time to read it all, just like you don't have time to answer back anyone else' questions and comments they have posted on your thread. So I will post some of them for you.

In life and death situations, civilians use guns to DEFEND themselves 77% of the time.

For police, over 99% of the time.

The estimated number of incidents of DEFENSIVE gun use per year in the U.S. is 2.5 million.

Also, you say that the fact that the US does not even crack the top 25 in gun violence is because it is more developed? Once again your lack of data about another country is showing in your presumptions. Are you aware that according to the U.S. census bureau 146 million Americans are considered "low income" or "poverty level?" That is almost half of the country and that number is rapidly becoming larger. So by your little banned list, all of those people should not have any firearms because they are poor.

Rifles are included only in the bottom portion because there is alot of debate about banning assault weapons altogether in the US. Pistols are not even considered. The Centers for Disease Control says 11,493 people died from gun homicides last year. There are 313,914,040 living in the country as of 2012, you do the math.

I am a combat veteran clinically diagnosed with PTSD. I am currently disabled after a long bout with stage 4 cancer. I have had a DUI in the past. And maybe I medicate myself by sometimes setting plants on fire. I fail all of your criteria. So I should not have any guns.

I also love archery. I have several bows(recurves and compounds mostly) and practice target and stump shooting quite a bit. I am a very good shot. I also have collected all manner of military bayonets and Bowie knives over the past several years, just another hobby for me. I have been taking Judo classes from my brother in law who has been a licensed instructor for over 20 years. Mainly to help me get my body back into shape and to help with fatigue, but also to learn anatomical weakpoints of the human body and for hand to hand self-defense.

If I wanted to murder someone, and did not have any type of gun, do you really think that would stop me?

So far you have made absolutely no coherent points about why any of the 1-4 reasons for extra gun legislation that you propose should be implemented. No matter what is said to you or asked of you by anyone else you just stubbornly cling to this notion that its best because that is how this mysterious still not named country of yours does it.

So stop harping on about how it is done in Europe. We get it. That is so far your counter argument to everything. Guns are banned over there and they obviously scare the hell out of all of you.

So why don't you answer to some of these other points and comments made in posts on your thread? Instead of just address the ones that you can answer with, "Well in Europe...."