NYC asks: What happened to the 1,116 missing 9/11 victims?

reply to post by Another_Nut


Thank you.

I Have been on the fence regarding 9/11, and I have wanted to ask someone that actually knew someone questions because you read so many stories..

So often it's claimed that victims are brothers of friends, or a cousin of a guy they know, or someone that went to the same school...never anyone that actually knew a victim well..

Perhaps now you can shed some light on a few things, questions I have heard raised here and elsewhere..

Why is peter not listed on the social security death index? Yet he appears on the victims comp fund?

Do you have any photos of peter other than black and white FD photo?
Since you knew him, perhaps you have a photo, I know I myself have a least one photo of my friends and family, at least in the last 20 years..

It seems in the case of most of the victims there are no photos to speak of that can be found other than the "offical" photo.

Do you know of any court records/internet pages/ etc that list peter prior to 9/11?

So often in these victims there is nothing...no record of anything before 9/11

Can you think of one legit reason a photo released of a victim/firefighter would ever be altered?
If one was wouldn't that shed a bad light on the official story?

Thanks again...this may answer alot of questions that people have raised regarding victims..

Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by Another_Nut

 

Thank you.

I Have been on the fence regarding 9/11, and I have wanted to ask someone that actually knew someone questions because you read so many stories..

So often it's claimed that victims are brothers of friends, or a cousin of a guy they know, or someone that went to the same school...never anyone that actually knew a victim well..

Perhaps now you can shed some light on a few things, questions I have heard raised here and elsewhere..

Why is peter not listed on the social security death index? Yet he appears on the victims comp fund?

Do you have any photos of peter other than black and white FD photo?
Since you knew him, perhaps you have a photo, I know I myself have a least one photo of my friends and family, at least in the last 20 years..

It seems in the case of most of the victims there are no photos to speak of that can be found other than the "offical" photo.

Do you know of any court records/internet pages/ etc that list peter prior to 9/11?

So often in these victims there is nothing...no record of anything before 9/11

Can you think of one legit reason a photo released of a victim/firefighter would ever be altered?
If one was wouldn't that shed a bad light on the official story?

Thanks again...this may answer alot of questions that people have raised regarding victims..

I am friends with Peters son.

Why he isn't on the ssdi? I have no clue . I can ask.

Although it might take a day or 2 photos are no prob as I have personally looked through photo albums of his.

Im sure his marriage cert is available somewhere. I will fb his son

But.

I see your an okie. Well so am i . as a matter of fact Peters son lived here till 9/11. Im Living in okc right now. When i get the docs/ pics i can show them first hand over lunch if your buying.

Hell if you are ever in ny i can put you in touch with the fam. As long as we meet first and I get a feeling of respect.

i will not say that all the victims were real. I will vouch for this one though.

Eta I have no idea why anyone would alter a photo if a firefighter. I do think that the same people who would alter an official firefighters photos would also be in the same position to tell a family that a body was recovered when it wasn't. Only dna

another eta I do not believe the Os or explosive cd theories. I think those two camps were set up and run by whoever is behind 9/11 in order to cause irreconcilable fighting and infighting. Think dems vs repubs . All the while the real perps of 911 get away Scott free

reply to post by Another_Nut


Again thank you for your reply..you might have a deal on the lunch! I do get to the city every once in a while.

Seeing photos would be great, as that would disprove alot of the stories that these victims were fabricated.

I have seen several of the doctored photos, and I for one can't think of a legit reason to do so..so that alone would tend to cast a bit of doubt in my opinion.

The ssdi has been a puzzler to me as well...why are some listed and others not? If we could ever answer some of these questions it would be nice.

Not that anything would ever settle the whole thing..
heck I still have alot of questions about the okc bombing and I was there on scene for 4 days myself.

Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by Another_Nut

 

Again thank you for your reply..you might have a deal on the lunch! I do get to the city every once in a while.

Seeing photos would be great, as that would disprove alot of the stories that these victims were fabricated.

I have seen several of the doctored photos, and I for one can't think of a legit reason to do so..so that alone would tend to cast a bit of doubt in my opinion.

The ssdi has been a puzzler to me as well...why are some listed and others not? If we could ever answer some of these questions it would be nice.

Not that anything would ever settle the whole thing..
heck I still have alot of questions about the okc bombing and I was there on scene for 4 days myself.

I went to Midwest city hs during the bombing and it stunk.

Side note a dear friend Jenna was murdered this year. First of the year . She list her mom in okc.

Both acts sit fresh in my heart everyday. Ill get that info and stuff for ya.

Originally posted by Another_Nut

A36 shear modulus 79 (11.5k psi)

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Actually what your link says is: A36 - shear modulus of 79.3 GPa (11,500,000 psi).

Did you really think that steel is 143.75 times stronger in shear than it is in tension ?
Shear modulus is not the shear strength.


The average shear strength for A36 is 50,000 psi.... 60,000 psi max.... 36,000 min.

The average shear strength of 7055 T7751 is 53,800 psi.

So here's what I have so far

He has no idea about Peter not being on the ssdi . Although he didn't even know what that was. He is going to talk to his mom about it when he goes to see her.

At that meeting he will also be trying to hunt down all formal document s he can find . And a few choice scrap book photos.

Didn't want u to think I was forgetting about you guys that are waiting.

Hope to have better info from mom. Ill update asap

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Another_Nut

A36 shear modulus 79 (11.5k psi)

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Actually what your link says is: A36 - shear modulus of 79.3 GPa (11,500,000 psi).

Did you really think that steel is 143.75 times stronger in shear than it is in tension ?
Shear modulus is not the shear strength.


The average shear strength for A36 is 50,000 psi.... 60,000 psi max.... 36,000 min.

The average shear strength of 7055 T7751 is 53,800 psi.

This is the last reply i will make to this as it is off topic. Please start a new thread if you wish to continue discussions on steel vs aluminum

Truthfully plane impact dynamics isn't my forte but i do know we should at least try not to kid ourselves and throw out things that are nonsense.

Like when some one yell tensile strength when you shouldn't even be looking at tensile. Just another way to muddy the sutuation

Also realize how close those numbers are when some people wish they were much further apart. But at least we are getting closer to using the right numbers.

Here's the best discussion I've ever seen about the mini-nukes theory:

donaldfox.wordpress.com...

It would be interesting to find out if the 'missing' people are from the areas of the plane crashes and the planes themselves or what, but I'm too lazy to go looking for the precise information. After long research, I've concluded the mini-nuke theory is the best at explaining all the known evidence of the day, combined with thermite for some cutting charge effects. There is certainly nothing else that explains 99 days of sustained heat so high in the sub-basements that it melted steel (residual fission) or where the core went (that black smoke you see rising from the center as the buildings turned to dust.) Also see the 'horseshoe beam' for something that no amount of OT can explain. It would be interesting to see if it's still slightly radioactive. Did you know that Geiger counters were banned at Ground Zero (heh) and although the air was analyzed almost no one thought of checking for radiation?

The thing is, people have never seen a small nuke up close before; we've all been taught that you need a huge explosion, a flash and a mushroom cloud. Hundreds of nukes the size of a potted plant don't look the same.

Remember people, the Bush administration encouraged the EPA to lie about the 'air being safe to breathe'. If they would lie to all the responders as well as the employees and people who lived nearby, they would certainly think nothing of killing this many people. Their behavior on that one count defines the words callow and criminal.

Originally posted by signalfire
Here's the best discussion I've ever seen about the mini-nukes theory:

Here's the best discussion: Nonsense. Piffle. Tripe.

Also: thermite is not a cutting charge. Ever.

Originally posted by signalfire
Did you know that Geiger counters were banned at Ground Zero

Your "source" for that silly claim is......?

reply to post by Bedlam


Piffle? Tripe? Since you didn't have time to read it, your opinion is less than valid.

As far as thermite not being a cutting charge feel free to read this:

en.wikipedia.org...

It's not exactly dynamite although it is used for welding. Mostly, it's used to melt metal in very highly reactive localized circumstances.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by signalfire
Did you know that Geiger counters were banned at Ground Zero

Your "source" for that silly claim is......?

A newspaper article I read from several months after the fact; the police were arresting people who had those little 'NukeAlert' keychains that started chirping when they were visiting in the area of Ground Zero. I'm sorry but I don't have the link, my research on this topic spanned many years. It was simply an interesting point. Feel free to hunt down the comment yourself if you're willing to do more than simply call things 'silly' without evidence yourself.

I did email one of the investigators who flew in from California to test the air quality and asked specifically if they tested for radiation. He acted shocked that that would even have been considered, which I found interesting...

Originally posted by signalfire
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Piffle? Tripe? Since you didn't have time to read it, your opinion is less than valid.

Since I had a rating on nukes, I'd say it's his opinion that doesn't matter, but I don't need to read it, I've read every pseudo-scientific mind loogie on the subject I could tolerate, from the "anti matter fusion" nukers to the "tiny mini nuke hand grenade" nukers.

It takes about 5 psi of overpressure to strip the facade from a building such as the towers. That isn't a lot of explosive. Much less "hundreds of nukes". Not that you can make one quite that small.

You also have to explain the lack of hundreds of thousands of dead people.

Oh, and you don't get 'dustification' of steel from a nuke. Or really, anything.

As far as thermite not being a cutting charge feel free to read this:

I've used thermite many a time in my former professional life. I can make several varieties for you. I can also tell you it's not a 'cutting charge', which is a term reserved for the use of high brisance explosives that cut steel by means of a shock wave.

Thermite is an incendiary. It gets its job done by turning (usually...there's dozens of formulations, some very use specific) into molten steel and aluminum slag. You use it to break things, or weld things. Sometimes you break things by welding them. But what it's not is fast, nor predictable, nor can you time it accurately, because its NOT a cutting charge. It is a very energetic reaction that makes you some molten steel. That steel may or may not melt through something else, but whether it will or not and when depends on the bulk of the thermite, the bulk of the target, how well you can contain the thermite against the target, how well the target can sink the heat away and so on. The large and fairly indeterminate nature of the variables makes thermite very iffy if you want to coordinate melting through more than one point, much less hundreds.

In addition, in order to even get close to melting through ONE horizontal stringer (doing verticals is problematic in the extreme) you have to do some clay work to contain the melt. On every cut.

reply to post by signalfire

Feel free to hunt down the comment yourself if you're willing to do more than simply call things 'silly' without evidence yourself.

That's not how it works. You made a claim, YOU back it up. I don't care which side of the fence you are, if you make the claim you offer the evidence, especially when asked. If I said that at one point a reputable source posted undeniable proof of leprechauns and then told you to do your own research what would your response be?

Now all that being said I too remember reading something that claimed those keychain deals were banned, but I don't remember if it was credible, and I certainly wouldn't expect the interwebs to just believe me.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Burning people don't smell that bad once the hair is gone, it's more the concept of what you're smelling that's makes your stomach turn. Buried in a pile of tons of office crap and burned slowly over time, it'll smell like burning garbage.

Actually burning Human flesh smells like very sickly sweet pork. It makes you very nauseous, well it does me anyway.

Originally posted by signalfire
the police were arresting people who had those little 'NukeAlert' keychains that started chirping when they were visiting in the area of Ground Zero.

Arresting them for what exactly? Having a keychain that chirped is NOT a arrestable offence....

I'm sorry but I don't have the link,

So you have no source then!

Feel free to hunt down the comment yourself if you're willing to do more than simply call things 'silly' without evidence yourself.

Hold on, you are the one making the silly claim, it is up to you to back that claim up. Which you are unable to do....

of course you ignore this....
www.neha.org...

"Al Quada + Bin Laden in a cave hating us for our freedoms"

Amazing how persons who consider themselves expert of everything make such stupid assumptions that just shows how uninformed they really are.

Bin laden was belied to be in Khost or Peshawar or the tribal areas between them at the time however he seldom stayed in the same place for more than one night and sometimes got up in the middle of the night and just left on foot for places unknown. The caves of Tora Bora were a last stand hundreds of miles away. The statement 'hating us for our freedoms' again, just shows lack of knowledge about his movement and their hatred for the United States. The Palestinians and their struggle to regain their homeland and the presents of American solders in the Saudi peninsula were his reasons for attacking America-he could care less about our 'freedoms'.

I don't buy the 'high speed blender' at all, what a load of rubbish.

The building wasn't spinning around at speed, it collapsed at speed, and debris fell downwards and outwards..

And no all people would have been buried under the rubble, some of the dead should definitely have been near the top of the rubble, some folk were in the lower part of the building too, so they would not be caught up in this imaginary 'blender effect'. And the people who were in the top part of the building would not have been so buried either.

Where are those that should have been on the upper part of the rubble? Nada, nothing, nobody. So all these blender/fire theories are just nonsense.

Originally posted by samkent

Remember the vehicles surrounding the WTC; they were absolutely incinerated. it is not possible that a building collapse would cause such intense heat at street level.

There were hundreds of vehicles which stood where they parked with the tires, interior, anything that was not metal - gone! Burnt into the air!

My thoughts are these:

You are stuck in traffic. Debris starts raining down. Many people left their cars running and simply ran like heck.
Debris from 80 stories up punches through the windshield/dash/hood and wreaks havok on the electrical system.
You end up with car fires. Not a surprise.

Just like debris set fire to WTC7, that sneaky debris.

Originally posted by DeeKlassified
Where are those that should have been on the upper part of the rubble? Nada, nothing, nobody. So all these blender/fire theories are just nonsense.

Regardless of their position. If they were 'on top' of the rubble or in the 'upper part' that means they just fell over a thousand feet along with a hundred thousand tons of steel and concrete. What exactly do you expect to happen?