I love you, dont you realise violence breeds violence.

I may be mistaken, but I believe TC's point - if perhaps not articulated in a way that makes that as clear as intended - is about people's attitudes about violence, more so than violence itself. There are some (on ATS and everywhere) who revel in the thought of this war coming to fruition. Some who advocate that we "get on with it" and begin a conflict which, in all pragmatic reality, will likely cost millions of lives should it happen as some envisage. That the time has come to dispense with diplomacy and wipe the regime (and those who would defend it... which are many) from the face of the Earth. And there are even some who have suggested they would actually delight in that.

I share TC's view that this is neither wise, nor compassionate, nor - at this juncture - necessary. Now, that having been said, I will go ahead and concede that I am a pacifist and believe that war is never necessary, and always represents a failure to find alternatives by all sides. That doesn't mean that once war is visited upon someone, they should not defend themselves. It simply means that I view it being visited upon them in the first place as a failure on the part of our species. Whether it be a failure to understand how to prevent it; a failure to control and moderate anger; a failure to understand the motivations of the aggressor and how one might defuse or ameliorate those causes; a failure to have the will to avoid war in the first place; or a failure in some other capacity we could not predict or conceive of. In any event, I always consider war a failure.

Once a war begins, the most compassionate and humane course of action short of finding a way to end it, is to win it as quickly and efficiently as possible, as that is what is most likely to result in the fewest possible deaths and the least possible suffering. But that we ever get to the point where that calculation must be made at all represents, to me, a failure. And that failure isn't shouldered by only one side (though it can be argued that it is shouldered more by one than the other, depending on the given dynamics.)

I know that isn't a popular point of view necessarily, but I suspect that - and that many here and elsewhere seem so eager for a conflict (and no, I'm not saying everyone advocating a more aggressive posture is necessarily eager for war) - is all TC has been trying to say. And if so, I agree with him or her personally.

Peace.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Whats the point? Like trying to reason with a caged tiger. I am only so not willing to get growled at. Have a nice war.

This threads about violence begetting violence, not what do ever do about Kim Un.

Get that.

Out

Whats the point? You challenged the topic, and then challenged me and then accused me of all sorts of things and then called me names......

When i called you out on them and asked you to not only prove them but explain yourself.........

You backed down.......but thats fine.....youre right........whats the point...

We all know that sometimes you have to have people willing to do the hard things, the dirty work, so that people like you and others can sit around and call us all sorts of names.......thats fine........


Try gettin away with calling Kimmie anything other then supreme leader in NK and see what happens....then let me know how that benevolent pacifism works out....

Pacifism just doesn't work and can't work until you can remove all the randomness from humanity. Until you can make everyone think and act exactly the same it is not a viable approach.

I'm sure people will point to some extreme example where a remote tribe or some lone wolf or monks or religious sect or whatever manage to live a peaceful life in isolation. Yes that is because being isolated removes much of that randomness from the equation and wherever humanity is evil can lurk so don't fool yourself for a second and think that everything is wonderful in those situations. Chances are externally it appears that way but internally it is a much different story.

Next I am sure someone will say "IM a peaceful person and I have never experienced random violence" to that I say wonderful, consider yourself lucky and the exception to the rule. Random does not guarantee something is going to happen it just means their is a chance it can happen.

Every single person here claiming "peace, love and understanding" would fight to their last breath if their life or the life of someone they loved was at risk.

So again, until you can remove the random horrible people from the world you need people, the technology and the ability to respond with appropriate force.

reply to post by December21st2012


I have to laugh at your naiveté. You obviously haven't studied history. All those who don't answer violence with justified violence ar enslaved and or subjugated. So you need to do the waking up an realize that to prepare for war and hope and work for peace is the only way to go.

Jaden

reply to post by December21st2012


Violence doesn't cause violence. Humans cause violence. When are people going to accept reality? We can love and preach peace until we're drowning in it, and someone is STILL going to pick up a gun, start a war, abuse people... That's life.

Life is also making sure that these violent people are put down and put down fast.

Originally posted by December21st2012
Every day I read more and more comments demanding that North Korea should be taught a lesson. People taking great delight in the thought of death and destruction.

Can you not see the road that has been travelled? it is irrefutable that violence and hatred begats more violence and hatred. Change can only be achieved by setting an example. Someone dies. Someone you love dies. Someone they love dies. You hate, they hate, we all hate. Who wins? Who feeds off this hate? Who really wins?

Think! Awaken!

edit on 28-3-2013 by December21st2012 because: (no reason given)

Thank You for your words.

Love is the only thing that makes sense.

We've all been sold on hate to perpetuate violence. And we're still buying.

We've all been lied to, our whole lives, ABOUT EVERYTHING!

Will we ever learn? Will we ever wake up as a race?

I don't know. But i go forward with only love in my heart.

Fear and anger has been driven out.

I don't want it anymore.

Love and Light to all the people who are going to die to establish banks. North Koreans, Iranians, Cubans, and Americans. See some of you on the other side.

It is a bad situation.

And although I realize you love me, and I realize you want to love everyone, there are elements in the world who will not, or can not love back.

We all live in the neighborhood called the world. Most us can get along because we want to get along.

But there are people in our neighborhood who do not want to get along, in fact they mean to cause us and our families harm.

We as a community have only two choices.

Duck and run, turn the blind eye and hope and pray that they do not act on the serious threats they make against our loved ones and ourselves.
Or
Stand up, push back and let these bullies know we will not be threatened, abused or harmed.

What happens when you cower and try to run from a bully?, what happens is they become like an emboldened Grizzly bear, they run after you and end up either mauling you or killing you.

The bully and the Grizzly do not understand your love, means nothing to them. Are you willing to sacrifice children, woman, old age pensioners, young men because you would rather love them than stand up to them?

Without standing up to these evil bullies, we are sure to be doomed to a life of constant threats, constant harassment, and constant worries about the safety of not only our loved ones, but the loved ones of others.

This utopia of rainbows and butterflies may be achieved one day, just not today because we first need to deal with these bullies and Grizzly bears.

reply to post by December21st2012


Im sorry id love to counter your argument, infact id love to counter any argument. but you see there is a logical problem and that is; there is no premise beyond reproof. So i dont even know where to start... Then again we are on a floating rock ,spinning around a hydrogen sun, having a coversation about world peace; on a digital screen. seems pretty absurd... all of it really

Originally posted by December21st2012
Every day I read more and more comments demanding that North Korea should be taught a lesson. People taking great delight in the thought of death and destruction.

Can you not see the road that has been travelled? it is irrefutable that violence and hatred begats more violence and hatred. Change can only be achieved by setting an example. Someone dies. Someone you love dies. Someone they love dies. You hate, they hate, we all hate. Who wins? Who feeds off this hate? Who really wins?

Think! Awaken!

edit on 28-3-2013 by December21st2012 because: (no reason given)

I believe you are quite correct! It's a lot easier to look at a problem from an external view and see the truth!
We who have lived easy lives free from hate or oppression need to realize that there are those that were not fortunate enough to have experienced a life free from such pain! This pain they received is transferred to others much like those that were abused as children tend to abuse theirs as well! The more violent our society is the more violence it becomes! This hypothesis suggest it will take many decades of sacrifice to bring about the change that is needed to bring about a peaceful society! Not only that but it will take massive amounts of therapy for those of us in pain but the first and most important step is admittance of our predisposed tendencies towards aggression! I see this first step will probably be the hardest for many to take!

Originally posted by December21st2012
Every day I read more and more comments demanding that North Korea should be taught a lesson. People taking great delight in the thought of death and destruction.

Can you not see the road that has been travelled? it is irrefutable that violence and hatred begats more violence and hatred. Change can only be achieved by setting an example. Someone dies. Someone you love dies. Someone they love dies. You hate, they hate, we all hate. Who wins? Who feeds off this hate? Who really wins?

Think! Awaken!

edit on 28-3-2013 by December21st2012 because: (no reason given)

Yet another tactic of manufactured division.

If you find yourself hating North Korea when you watch the news, don't ask what should be done about it. Ask yourself; Why do they want me to think and feel this way?

There's a bigger agenda to everything.

When all this gay marriage crap came on the news, I turned to my little sister and said "I've heard nothing but this gay marriage s&^% for the past three days... I bet you anything that there's something bigger going on that they don't want us thinking about. That's why this gay marriage crap's got everyone riled up."

I called it. Come to find out, while all this gay controversy kept the ignorant brainwashed and busy, the Monstanto Protection Act was signed into play.

Never take what you hear on the news as information.

Take it for what it is--some kind of psychological trap.