Shroud Of Turin Real? New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

Shroud Of Turin Real? New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

www.huffingtonpost.com

After decades of speculation, new research suggests that the Shroud of Turin, one of the Catholic Church's holiest relics, may be the real deal.

Believed by some to have been Jesus' burial cloth, the Shroud has been the subject of much research. The latest battery of experiments led experts to conclude the cloth may have come from the first century A.D., making it old enough to have been used to bury Jesus Christ.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.guardian.co.uk
www.catholicculture.org

Well, in the on again, off again "Shroud of Turin" debate, here comes a new book, just ahead of Easter. Long time Shroud researcher Giulio Fanti (a mechanical engineering professor, so not just some random kook) has done more testing that not only dates it to the period 300BC - 300AD, but also finds evidence of pollen and dust that indicates it was in Israel at some point.

In his most recent effort, Fanti and a research team from the University of Padua conducted three tests on tiny fibers extracted from the shroud during earlier carbon-14 dating tests conducted in 1988, according to Vatican Insider. The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage.

The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D., per The Telegraph.

In an email with The Huffington Post, Fanti said that researchers also found trace elements of soil "compatible with the soil of Jerusalem."

Fanti's 2011 paper in the Journal of Imaging Science and Technology: Hypotheses Regarding the Formation of the Body Image on the Turin Shroud. A Critical Compendium (speculation on the means by which the image of someone could be on the shroud.)

www.huffingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Many of histories greatest fakes have used materials from the exact time period of the artifact they were trying to fake.

The latest revelations of the shroud prove nothing significant. Certainly doesn't provide evidence of authenticity.

reply to post by adjensen


Since the the historic existence of Jesus Christ is yest to be proven anything that would validate or reinforce the presets that the Christian dogma is based on, especially the resurrection, would be very welcomed by believers, in that regard the Shroud Of Turin is a very "important" artifact.

Non Christians will always find the efforts to examine the artifact a simple technological curiosity, I doubt that anyone will be moved beyond the threshold of possibility in regards to the claims.

Now if we put the shroud in its proper context the chance that it is a real relic is very slim, the trade of fake relics before the 19 century was extremely common, even going into the area of the "creation" of miracles.

The whole set of circumstances around this appear odd.

- A set of (supposedly) scientific measurements have been taken, but not published anywhere in the scientific literature.
- The results are not announced to the world by the Vatican when they were performed.
- The only "announcement" that any tests have ever been performed is in a book.

Should be noted here that even the "Vatican Insider" article isnt any more than a review of the book, and not any link to the actual testing.

I was just watching movie trailers for 2013 on YouTube.com and I saw one for a movie about the stealing if the shroud and using it to clone Jesus.

reply to post by timetothink


Would sure p**s off a lot of white Christians when they clone him and find out he was black, lol.

reply to post by adjensen
It's real. It's not real.
It's real. It's not real.

It's like watching a decades old tennis match that nobody ever wins. The Shroud of Turin has been proven/debunked so many times that even if the "J" man himself appeared on CNN and testified that it was real people still wouldn't know what to think about it.

Originally posted by alfa1

The whole set of circumstances around this appear odd.

- A set of (supposedly) scientific measurements have been taken, but not published anywhere in the scientific literature.
- The results are not announced to the world by the Vatican when they were performed.
- The only "announcement" that any tests have ever been performed is in a book.

It appears that will be forthcoming (see below.) I'm with you, it's a little dodgy to be released in this manner, though I suppose it speaks to the complexity of it, and the non-sensational approach (contrast the media-hyped, with the blessing of Karen King, Gospel of Jesus' Wife last year.)

What’s new about this book are Fanti’s recent findings, which are also about to be published in a specialist magazine and assessed by a scientific committee. The research includes three new tests, two chemical ones and one mechanical one. The first two were carried out with an FT-IR system, so using infra-red light, and the other using Raman spectroscopy. The third was a multi-parametric mechanical test based on five different mechanical parameters linked to the voltage of the wire. The machine used to examine the Shroud’s fibres and test traction, allowed researchers to examine tiny fibres alongside about twenty samples of cloth dated between 3000 BC and 2000 AD. (Source)

I'd be a lot more convinced that something is a burial shroud if it showed any kind of evidence that it was actually wrapped or draped around something or someone, rather than apparently just sort of hovering above and below it.

Thanks, adjensen. I was hoping someone would put that up. I'm surprised at some of the reactions, though. All the ATSers who say "I'll only believe what Science tells me" are now being told that the Shroud is a piece of cloth which had been in Israel, and comes from a 700 year period around Christ's life.

Why should that shake anybody? The evidence says it wasn't a medieval hoax. Does that bother anyone? Were you pinning your hopes on it being a hoax?

Now let's look at the image. If I recall correctly, the people working on the Shroud say it was made by a burst of some form of radiation. Anyone want to explain how that was faked? It hasn't been succesfully explained yet.

So do we have proof that Jesus was wrapped in it? No. Is it possible that He was? Yes.

Happy Easter.

Originally posted by littled16
The Shroud of Turin has been proven/debunked so many times that even if the "J" man himself appeared on CNN and testified that it was real people still wouldn't know what to think about it.

I don't know. If he was able to prove who he said he was, his opinion might carry a some weight. IF.

reply to post by charles1952


Care to back up your claims with a link?

Jesus or Mosses was left handed. See how the left hand sit ontop of the right? Clearly he was a brilliant southpaw

reply to post by boymonkey74

Dear boymonkey74,

Thanks for asking, but I don't know what claim you're referring to. Here are excerpts from an article from earlier today upon which I'm basing my opinions:

The analysis is published in a new book, "Il Mistero della Sindone" or The Mystery of the Shroud, by Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, and Saverio Gaeta, a journalist.

Scientists, including Prof Fanti, used infra-red light and spectroscopy – the measurement of radiation intensity through wavelengths – to analyse fibres from the shroud, which is kept in a special climate-controlled case in Turin.

The tests dated the age of the shroud to between 300 BC and 400AD.

The experiments were carried out on fibres taken from the Shroud during a previous study, in 1988, when they were subjected to carbon-14 dating.

Those tests, conducted by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona, appeared to back up the theory that the shroud was a clever medieval fake, suggesting that it dated from 1260 to 1390.

But those results were in turn disputed on the basis that they may have been skewed by contamination by fibres from cloth that was used to repair the relic when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.

Mr Fanti, a Catholic, said his results were the fruit of 15 years of research.

He said the carbon-14 dating tests carried out in 1988 were “false” because of laboratory contamination.

Scientists have never been able to explain how the image of a man's body, complete with nail wounds to his wrists and feet, pinpricks from thorns around his forehead and a spear wound to his chest, could have formed on the cloth. Mr Fanti said the imprint was caused by a blast of “exceptional radiation”, although he stopped short of describing it as a miracle.

He said his tests backed up earlier results which claimed to have found on the shroud traces of dust and pollen which could only have come from the Holy Land.

Shroud

With respect,
Charles1952

This is like finding a bowler hat from the 1940's and claiming it to belong to Winston Churchill.

reply to post by charles1952


Cheers Charles
One thing though is to do with the weaving of the cloth

More recently, further doubt was cast on its authenticity when Israeli archaeologists uncovered the first known burial shroud in Jerusalem from the time of the Crucifixion.
Its weave and design are completely different from the Turin Shroud, they said.
The Jerusalem shroud has a simple two-way weave – but the twill weave used on the Turin Shroud was introduced more than 1,000 years after Christ lived.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I just find it fishy the guy is selling a book.

Originally posted by CrypticSouthpaw

Jesus or Mosses was left handed. See how the left hand sit ontop of the right? Clearly he was a brilliant southpaw

Clearly from the Shroud

Jesus is a hunk!!! He is a looker !!

The Shroud is Jesus' burial cloth

NO doubt !!


PS
there are rare flower pollens on that shroud that date to the first century

and these flowers were only found in the area of Isreal where Jesus lived and was resurrected.

These flowers became extinct maybe 50 years after Jesus was hung on the cross.

This is a Fact that was NOT translated over from the 1980s investigation of this shroud.

This is the Lord's burial cloth!!!

reply to post by boymonkey74

Dear boymonkey74,

I've just had a unique experience. I'll make one response to your question about the Shroud's weave, then stop.

ANYONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE SHROUD QUESTION, GO TO THIS LINK:
www.historian.net...
DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU DO.

This article was published in 3 parts in The Glyph, the journal of The Archaeological Institute of America, San Diego, Vol 1, No. 10 (Sept 1997); No. 11 (Dec 1977); No. 12 (March 1998). This is great stuff.

Now, about your weave question. From the article:

The shroud is a herringbone twill with a 3:1 weave, of probably 1st century Syrian design. The flax fibrils contain entwisted cotton fibrils from a previous work of the loom. The cotton is Gossypium herbaceum, a Middle Eastern species not found in Europe.

First Century?

Please, seriously, if you care about science and the Shroud go here. It's not a religious site and it doesn't make a religious argument. Just go there, everybody.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

Dear boymonkey74,

Thanks for asking, but I don't know what claim you're referring to. Here are excerpts from an article from earlier today upon which I'm basing my opinions:

The analysis is published in a new book, "Il Mistero della Sindone" or The Mystery of the Shroud, by Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, and Saverio Gaeta, a journalist.

Scientists, including Prof Fanti, used infra-red light and spectroscopy – the measurement of radiation intensity through wavelengths – to analyse fibres from the shroud, which is kept in a special climate-controlled case in Turin.

The tests dated the age of the shroud to between 300 BC and 400AD.

The experiments were carried out on fibres taken from the Shroud during a previous study, in 1988, when they were subjected to carbon-14 dating.

Those tests, conducted by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona, appeared to back up the theory that the shroud was a clever medieval fake, suggesting that it dated from 1260 to 1390.

But those results were in turn disputed on the basis that they may have been skewed by contamination by fibres from cloth that was used to repair the relic when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.

Mr Fanti, a Catholic, said his results were the fruit of 15 years of research.

He said the carbon-14 dating tests carried out in 1988 were “false” because of laboratory contamination.

Scientists have never been able to explain how the image of a man's body, complete with nail wounds to his wrists and feet, pinpricks from thorns around his forehead and a spear wound to his chest, could have formed on the cloth. Mr Fanti said the imprint was caused by a blast of “exceptional radiation”, although he stopped short of describing it as a miracle.

He said his tests backed up earlier results which claimed to have found on the shroud traces of dust and pollen which could only have come from the Holy Land.

Shroud

With respect,
Charles1952

yeah because jesus was moses lol at least i think so anyways. Pretty sure jesus was just Added. The new testament is bleh. Old testament is rocking sauce.

www.templemount.org...

THE 400 YEARS BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS

At the close of the book of Malachi in the Old Testament, the nation of Israel is back again in the land of Palestine after the Babylonian captivity, but they are under the domination of the great world power of that day, Persia and the Medio-Persian empire. In Jerusalem, the temple had been restored, although it was a much smaller building than the one that Solomon had built and decorated in such marvelous glory.

Within the temple the line of Aaronic priests was still worshiping and carrying on the sacred rites as they had been ordered to do by the law of Moses. There was a direct line of descendancy in the priesthood that could be traced back to Aaron.

But the royal line of David had fallen on evil days. The people knew who the rightful successor to David was, and in the book of Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, his name is given to us. It was Zerubbabel, the royal prince, yet there was no king on the throne of Israel, they were a puppet nation, under the domination of Persia. Nevertheless, although they were beset with weakness and formalism as the prophets have shown us, the people were united. There were no political schisms or factions among them, nor were they divided into groups or parties.

Now when you open the New Testament to the book of Matthew, you discover an entirely different atmosphere -- almost a different world. Rome is now the dominant power of the earth. The Roman legions have spread throughout the length and breadth of the civilized world. The center of power has shifted from the East to the West, to Rome. Palestine is still a puppet state -- the Jews never did regain their own sovereignty -- but now there is a king on the throne. But this king is the descendant of Esau instead of Jacob, and his name is Herod the Great. Furthermore, the high priests who now sit in the seat of religious authority in the nation are no longer from the line of Aaron. They cannot trace their descendancy back, rather, they are hired priests to whom the office is sold as political patronage.

The temple is still the center of Jewish worship, although the building has been partially destroyed and rebuilt about a half-dozen times since the close of the Old Testament. But now the synagogues that have sprung up in every Jewish city seem to be the center of Jewish life even more than the temple.

At this time the people of Israel were split into three major parties. Two of them, the Pharisees and Sadducees, were much more prominent than the third. The smaller group, the Essenes, could hardly be designated as a party. Not long ago, however, they came into great prominence in our time and took on new significance because they had stowed away some documents in caves overlooking the Dead Sea -- documents which were brought to light again by the accidental discovery of an Arab shepherd boy and are known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Now, what happened in these four hundred so-called "silent" years after the last of the inspired prophets spoke and the first of the New Testament writers began to write? You remember there is a word in Paul's letter to the Galatians that says, "When the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law." (Gal. 4:4) In other words, the time of our Lord's birth was God's appointed hour, the moment for which God had been long preparing. Some of the exciting preparations took place during that time of "silence," however, and you will understand your New Testament much better if you understand something of the historic events during the time between the Testaments.

After Malachi had ceased his prophesying and the canon of the Old Testament closed -- that is, the number of the books in the Old Testament was fulfilled and the inspired prophets ceased to speak -- God allowed a period of time for the teachings of the Old Testament to penetrate throughout the world. During this time, he rearranged the scenes of history, much as a stage crew will rearrange the stage sets after the curtain has fallen, and when the curtain rises again there is an entirely new setting.

In about 435 B.C., when the prophet Malachi ceased his writing, the center of world power began to shift from the East to the West. Up to this time, Babylon had been the major world power, but this was soon succeeded by the Medio-Persian empire, as you remember from ancient history. This shift had been predicted by the prophet Daniel, who said that there would rise up a bear who was higher on one side than the other, signifying the division between Media and Persia, with the Persians the predominant ones (Dan. 7:5). At the height of the Persian power there arose in the country of Macedonia (which we now know as Greece), north of the Black Sea, a man by the name of Philip of Macedon, who became a leader in his own country. He united the islands of Greece and became their ruler. His son was destined to become one of the great world leaders of all time, Alexander the Great. In 330 B.C. a tremendous battle between the Persians and the Greeks entirely altered the course of history. In that battle, Alexander, as a young man only twenty years old, led the armies of Greece in victory over the Persians and completely demolished the power of Persia. The center of world power then shifted farther west into Greece, and the Grecian empire was born.

A year after that historic battle, Alexander the Great led his armies down into the Syrian world toward Egypt. On the way, he planned to lay siege to the city of Jerusalem. As the victorious armies of the Greeks approached the city, word was brought to the Jews in Jerusalem that the armies were on their way. The high priest at that time, who was a godly old man by the name of Jaddua (who, by the way, is mentioned in the Bible in the book of Nehemiah) took the sacred writings of Daniel the prophet and, accompanied by a host of other priests dressed in white garments, went forth and met Alexander some distance outside the city.

All this is from the report of Josephus, the Jewish historian, who tells us that Alexander left his army and hurried to meet this body of priests. When he met them, he told the high priest that he had had a vision the night before in which God had shown him an old man, robed in a white garment, who would show him something of great significance to himself, according to the account, the high priest then opened the prophecies of Daniel and read them to Alexander.

In the prophecies Alexander was able to see the predictions that he would become that notable goat with the horn in his forehead, who would come from the West and smash the power of Medio-Persia and conquer the world. He was so overwhelmed by the accuracy of this prophecy and, of course, by the fact that it spoke about him, that he promised that he would save Jerusalem from siege, and sent the high priest back with honors. How true that account is, is very difficult at this distance in time to say; that, at any event, is the story.

Alexander died in 323 B.C. when he was only about thirty-three years old. He had drunk himself to death in the prime of his life, grieved because he had no more worlds to conquer. After his death, his empire was torn with dissension, because he had left no heir. His son had been murdered earlier, so there was no one to inherit the empire of Alexander.

After some time, however, the four generals that had led Alexander's armies divided his empire between them. Two of them are particularly noteworthy to us. One was Ptolemy, who gained Egypt and the northern African countries; the other was Seleucus, who gained Syria, to the north of Palestine. During this time Palestine was annexed by Egypt, and suffered greatly at the hands of Ptolemy. In fact, for the next one hundred years, Palestine was caught in the meat-grinder of the unending conflicts between Syria on the north and Egypt on the south.

Now if you have read the prophecies of Daniel, you will recall that Daniel was able, by inspiration, to give a very accurate and detailed account of the highlights of these years of conflict between the king of the North (Syria) and the king of the South (Egypt). The eleventh chapter of Daniel gives us a most amazingly accurate account of that which has long since been fulfilled. If you want to see just how accurate the prophecy is, I suggest you compare that chapter of Daniel with the historical record of what actually occurred during that time. H. A. Ironside's little book, The 400 Silent Years, gathers that up in some detail.



Read the rest of it in the link i posted.


Its very interesting.