Marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right!

reply to post by SamaraTen


Please don't tell me you are quoting leviticus to support your argument against constitutional rights: You know he also says you can kill your child for answering back at you, and stone your neighbour if they plant seeds at the wrong time or blend their cottons. Leviticus was a murderous idiot, and anyone who quotes him is ridiculous and needs to check their mental health state as to why they would embrace such vile violent instructions.

BTW. your avi needs to be changed as animated gifs are not permitted, its difficult to read your posts....Thank your pretend God, the flashing made me skip over most of them.......

reply to post by SamaraTen


I thought speaking for God or attempting to decipher what he/she/it thinks was a sin. A false prophet is one who represents God's word incorrectly

Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1)

Is Homosexuality a Sin?
Since a lot of holy men say that no where in the bible is it a sin to be gay. Then what gives you the authority to tell others what to do or think. What gives you the right to tell others they are sinning and it is you who is to judge for God.


I do not care for the gay lifestyle or anything like it...but in the end...it does not effect me or my choices. It is not an issue in my life. I have gay friends who understand how I feel and they respect my POV...just like I respect theirs. They are my friends because I don;t care who they sleep with or don't sleep with..it is not my decision nor is it anyone else's.

You anti gay people and religious people do love to spend your time butting in on areas that are of no concern to you.

Don't even bring kids into it...gay people are just like heterosexual people..they do not flaunt their secuality in front of children...they do not talk constantly about how gay they are....just like straight people do not talk all the time about straight they are.

Religious people need to get of their high horses and just shut the hell up. I cannot believe that in this day and age, they are still allowed to have a say in they matters of the world.

The world would be much farther along if it weren't for these idiots.

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by daryllyn
Oooo.. expect some flaming for that last line there.

I believe in a little thing called 'minding my own damn business'. More people should try it.

Get married or don't. It is none of my concern.

Aren't they making it our business??? Shouldn't we be concerned? If they PUSH this on us, what else will they push. (they: being lawmakers and politicians) IMO this has nothing to do with "rights" and everything to do with AGENDA!

Gay people are citizens of this country. People have been gay from the beginning of time. There are gay animals in nature. None of this is going to go away, ever. Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else does. If you're not for gay marriage, then don't get one.

Originally posted by SamaraTen

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

The constitution isn't perfect.

Maybe you've noticed that several changes have been made already..... this would seem to me to be a pretty obvious question, but one which I think you might struggle with.

Seeing as how the constitution has already been altered for reasons many of us agree on, do you believe the constitution will change in the future?

Well...the BIGGEST problem i have, is not that gays want to marry, but that gays are trying to ride on the coat tails of the Civil Rights Movement. No one is violating their "civil rights". Gays haven't been hung or told to sit in the back of the bus because they're "gay".

Actually, where I come from gays have been beaten to death and left dead on a road. Gays have been dragged behind a truck or beaten with a baseball bat and left to die. Their places of business has been set on fire and burned down because they are gay. Gay people have been mistreated in work places or fired from jobs because of who they are. Many gay people live in fear or secrecy still, for fear of what might happen to them by family or society. Am I missing something here?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

You are the one misreading. You must not have comprehended either. Your selective morality on this issue is apparent to all. You pick and choose what to follow and try to use the bible to justify your bigotry. I don’t know why you are even bringing up the issue of where they marry I couldn’t care less where it happens. I will leave you with a few more quotes to ponder however I doubt you will. Just remember Hitler used the bible to justify his actions as well and like so many others he thought his actions were supported by the text of the bible.

BTW the argument you made about not being able to hide skin color is false Michael Jackson proved that and Christian Mormons Believe through righteousness it can be changed so I am not sure which Christian God you follow because there seems to be so many yet you all claim there is only one. Your actions speak louder though.

Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).

They are not to oppose evil (“But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”-- Matthew 5:39). If this were followed one might just as well abolish law enforcement.

Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).

I must be going now I will leave you to your selective morality and thinly veiled bigotry. I may come back later to see how your crusade is going.

Dude, your scriptures are waaaaaaaaay out of context. Try to stay on topic with your BIBLE study; and the topic is same sex marriage. It's not about "turning the other cheek" (which refers to how to act when someone does you wrong); nor is about 'prayer' (which is communicating with God, in your own personal way) and No one is passing judgement.
Judgment Definition

1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced 2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree 3 a capitalized : the final judging of humankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God 4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed 5 a : the capacity for judging : discernment b : the exercise of this capacity 6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted

It seems to me, the only "bigot" here, would be Y.O.U.!

Bigot Definition

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

All those scriptures you posted has NOTHING to do with what i'm speaking about. If you're gonna "preach", be sure to use scriptures PROPERLY, not selectively. Thanks!

PS: If you want my "opinion", i'd be happy to offer it to you, THEN, you can call me a bigot! But, i wouldn't do that unless you KNOW ME PERSONALLY. Otherwise, you'd be the one passing judgment; like you've been doing. You know NOTHING about me, so keep YOUR OPINIONS about me, to yourself.

All i'm saying, is the argument for Prop 8, based on the 14th amendment, is a JOKE! It's even a bigger laugh, when you try to use scriptures to back up you ignorance.

I'd also like to remind you Samara, that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental disorder in 1973.
2nd

reply to post by SamaraTen


Equal Protection of the Law would mean that any existing law, statute, or policy cannot be denied or given to one group of people and not another for any reason. The protections of the law must be applied to everyone, equally.

Its called the Equal Protections Clause.

So technically, its not a Right per say, but Gay Marriage is Constitutional, and any Federal infringement on anyone's ability to marry would then be Unconstitutional.

reply to post by SamaraTen


I hope to "God" that one of your daughters comes home one day with a girlfriend..

Whinge Whinge Whinge

"Gay marriage is mine, i had it first, im not sharing it with you because im the king of the toy box"

Do people even know how pathetic they sound when they argue against equal rights for all?

I have yet to see a valid logical argument against gay marriage within my 3 or so years on ATS. I cant wait until gay people have the right to be married just because it'll prove to you once and for all that its no biggie.

Throw the biggest tantrum you can, its going to happen and you're welcome to leave america if you're that upset.

Religion this, religion that. I'm not the one who started the "religious" debate. Your peers did. And, since they wanted to go there, i went there. God bless America? Funniest thing i've heard in a looooong time. God doesn't bless disobedience; As you can see, and will soon feel! Live your 'gay' merry lives. I won't be the one affected by God's wrath, that you people refuse to believe will happen. In case you haven't noticed, America is 1 rating away from 3rd world country status. Ever since God was kicked out of the country: the economy has tanked, the government/banks are robbing you blind, the school system is unsafe, and there is nothing productive coming from it. It doesn't sound like a nation living in prosperity.

Some of you should read the book of Deuteronomy 28. America is living under a curse because of it's DISOBEDIENCE.

Yeah, sometimes THE TRUTH HURTS!

Originally posted by SamaraTen
Religion this, religion that. I'm not the one who started the "religious" debate. Your peers did. And, since they wanted to go there, i went there. God bless America?

Funniest thing i've heard in a looooong time. God doesn't bless disobedience; As you can see, and will soon feel! Live your 'gay' merry lives. I won't be the one affected by God's wrath, that you people refuse to believe will happen. In case you haven't noticed, America is 1 rating away from 3rd world country status. Ever since God was kicked out of the country: the economy has tanked, the government/banks are robbing you blind, the school system is unsafe, and there is nothing productive coming from it. It doesn't sound like a nation living in prosperity.

Some of you should read the book of Deuteronomy 28. America is living under a curse because of it's DISOBEDIENCE.

Yeah, sometimes THE TRUTH HURTS!

Guess we should bring back god then...

Paganism anyone?

Originally posted by Dustofenese
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

Equal Protection of the Law would mean that any existing law, statute, or policy cannot be denied or given to one group of people and not another for any reason. The protections of the law must be applied to everyone, equally.

Its called the Equal Protections Clause.

edit on 3/27/2013 by Dustofenese because: (no reason given)

I have to laugh when people start to make homoSEXual marrage a civil rights issue. Here you are taking a lifestyle choice and confusing it with ones gender, age, and race. Answer me this...can a homosexual still be considered a homosexual if they no longer engauge in the lifestyle and marry someone of the opposite sex? Is a black man still black if he acts white? Does a woman not still have XX chromosomes regardless of how she changes her appearence? See the difference. lol. You can act homosexual all you want, but you can't change physical characteristics. To confuse this agenda with the Civil Rights movement, is a travesty of justice. Especially when there is still ways to go.

Homosexuallity is purely psychological. Because, you take away the lifestyle and sex, there's nothing else. Homosexual marrage is nothing more than playing house.

This is my opinion, and I say it while still respecting everyone else's.

Marriage may not be a constitutional right, but it is a right in that any rights not enumerated in the constitution or otherwise prohibited by law are reserved to the states, and perhaps more pertinently, to the people. The constitution does not grant rights. It protects them. That the constitution explicitly grants rights rather than protecting existing rights (hence the reference to inalienable rights in the declaration of independence) is in my view a misnomer which allows for many a legal miscarriage.

Even if one concedes that marriage itself is not a right, what is undeniable is that equal protection under the law is unquestionably protected by the constitution. This means that laws - including voter approved regulations - cannot explicitly target one class of citizens unequally. So long as the state provides legal rights, benefits, and privileges to married citizens, and so long as hospitals and other institutions are required by the state to allow certain legal activities specifically linked to marriage, barring one specific class and only one specific class of people from those rights, benefits, and privileges is in my view unequal, and therefore unconstitutional.

That's the legal argument. Now for the moral and religious. No one's religious freedom is infringed upon by the legal acknowledgement of same sex marriage. People are still free to exercise their religious beliefs as they see fit, up to and including labeling gays sinners, espousing that label and belief, and evangelizing their beliefs to others. People still have first amendment rights and the right to raise their children as they see fit so far as their religious beliefs go.

However, religious freedom does not extend to the power to remove people or lifestyles with which you disagree from your very presence. That would be tantamount to - by way of a very labored analogy - a Muslim arguing that Christians cannot be married in their community, because the very presence of such unions is somehow violating their own freedom of religion due to the fact that their children might somehow be influenced by witnessing such unions. That would be unconstitutional, and so is this. Religious freedom ends where someone else's rights begin, and vice-versa.

As for the slippery slope argument, animals are not consenting adult human beings. Children are not consenting adults. Adults encouraging or committing incest with their (or molesting other) children are not consenting adults. Children who become incestuous are not consenting adults. Polygamists are - if it's the kind of polygamy most people are referring to when they make this argument - patriarchal societies where men choose their wives before they reach adulthood, and there is often abuse or psychological manipulation involved, which, again, does not constitute true consent. Statutory rape is not consenting adults. Gay couples getting married are adults who have mutually consented to enter into wedlock. There is no comparison. It is, with greatest respect possible for those who feel otherwise, a strawman, fallacious argument in my opinion.

One of my closest, life long friends is gay. He is a wonderful human being and served his country in Vietnam. He was gay. He could have draft dodged. He didn't. His rationale? "It was better I go than someone else risk their life in my place." He was honorably discharged. He is in a committed, mature relationship. It isn't about sex. It isn't about lust. He loves his partner dearly. They have been together for what seems like forever now (decades.) They love one another. It is one of the healthiest, most loving, supportive relationships I have ever witnessed. These two individuals deserve the right to have the same benefits straight couples do in my opinion.

Or no one should have them. One or the other. This is my opinion. I respect everyone else's.

Peace.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Whinge Whinge Whinge

"Gay marriage is mine, i had it first, im not sharing it with you because im the king of the toy box"

Do people even know how pathetic they sound when they argue against equal rights for all?

I have yet to see a valid logical argument against gay marriage within my 3 or so years on ATS. I cant wait until gay people have the right to be married just because it'll prove to you once and for all that its no biggie.

Throw the biggest tantrum you can, its going to happen and you're welcome to leave america if you're that upset.

I haven't seen a valid argument making a case for it, either; other than that crap about "love" and "equal rights"; oh yeah, and because 'animals are gay'. Equal rights for all? Boy, all you people do is try to find ways to JUSTIFY your sickness. Think about it....everything in world has an opposite, but the gay community.

Light and Darkness
Night and Day
Positive and Negative
Right and Wrong
Yin and Yang
MALE AND FEMALE
Man and Man (oops, that doesnt work)


I can't wait to see the shape of America, after they legalize gay marriage. We've seen what happened after they took God out of school. Good luck with that!

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SamaraTen
Religion this, religion that. I'm not the one who started the "religious" debate. Your peers did. And, since they wanted to go there, i went there. God bless America?

Funniest thing i've heard in a looooong time. God doesn't bless disobedience; As you can see, and will soon feel! Live your 'gay' merry lives. I won't be the one affected by God's wrath, that you people refuse to believe will happen. In case you haven't noticed, America is 1 rating away from 3rd world country status. Ever since God was kicked out of the country: the economy has tanked, the government/banks are robbing you blind, the school system is unsafe, and there is nothing productive coming from it. It doesn't sound like a nation living in prosperity.

Some of you should read the book of Deuteronomy 28. America is living under a curse because of it's DISOBEDIENCE.

Yeah, sometimes THE TRUTH HURTS!

Guess we should bring back god then...

Paganism anyone?

Nah, you don't need to "bring back god", you just have to RePent - change your way of thinking. "ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE." Oh, how times have changed.

BTW: what happened to the "we were born this way" argument????

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Marriage may not be a constitutional right, but it is a right in that any rights not enumerated in the constitution or otherwise prohibited by law are reserved to the states, and perhaps more pertinently, to the people.

Aim that argument towards the bastard child of the Bill of Rights; the Ninth Amendment. Rights, as held by an individual, are so vast and so varied, that the Government cannot list them all. It goes hand-in-hand with the 10th Amendment; which leads us to the issue at hand.

There is no enumerated "right" to marriage. There is however a more powerful enumerated Right and that is of free-association as defined in the First Amendment. States however, do not deny homosexual couples that Right, as no State bars such relationships.

Even if one concedes that marriage itself is not a right, what is undeniable is that equal protection under the law is unquestionably protected by the constitution. This means that laws - including voter approved regulations - cannot explicitly target one class of citizens unequally.

This is the pit-fall that Ted Olsen fell into yesterday when making his oral arguments. If what you said above is true, why is the State compelled to and through precedent, allowed to bar polygamy relationships? They are all consenting adults, yet that "class" of citizen's is treated unequally under the law and even barred under the law.

So long as the state provides legal rights, benefits, and privileges to married citizens, and so long as hospitals and other institutions are required by the state to allow certain legal activities specifically linked to marriage, barring one specific class and only one specific class of people from those rights, benefits, and privileges is in my view unequal, and therefore unconstitutional.

This is the more pertinent issue that should be argued as opposed to the label that is being argued now.

reply to post by SamaraTen



You may have a point here.. I agree, they should teach about all religions in schools.. It might just help those young sponge like minds to make their own decisions, not to follow some blind hate filled ideology.

Originally posted by SamaraTen
I haven't seen a valid argument making a case for it, either; other than that crap about "love" and "equal rights"; oh yeah, and because 'animals are gay'.

You've obviously missed the same point all of them make: That love is natural and so is being homosexual, there's no need to deny homosexuals equal rights if they cant help their own biological make-up.

Equal rights for all? Boy, all you people do is try to find ways to JUSTIFY your sickness. Think about it....everything in world has an opposite, but the gay community.

Call it whatever you want mate, more and more people are becoming educated on the subject of homosexually and they aint reaching the same retarded conclusions as you. People are becoming less threatened by something that occurs naturally in nature and so they should be. I guess they're just comfortable with their own skin.

Light and Darkness
Night and Day
Positive and Negative
Right and Wrong
Yin and Yang
MALE AND FEMALE

And what's the opposite to being a bigot?

Man and Man (oops, that doesnt work)

Actually it DOES, just not for you.
And guess what? No one cares if it doesnt work for you because its not your life and you're not being forced to live it. People of the same gender are capable of having romantic feelings towards each other - Get the hell over it.

I can't wait to see the shape of America, after they legalize gay marriage. We've seen what happened after they took God out of school.

Good luck with that!

Removing god from schools was a great idea, legalizing gay marriage an even better idea imo.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by SamaraTen

 

I hope to "God" that one of your daughters comes home one day with a girlfriend..

Yeah...well...see...my daughters already like boys. Your hopes are all for not! Dont you have better things to "hope" for....like...oh, i don't know...a FUTURE; considering yours is looking rather bleak? I "hope" you're not the only child, otherwise, your family bloodline will cease to exist. And no, adopting someone else's baby doesn't count! POINT IN CASE!