Our Economy Could Be In Surplus In Less Than A Year With A 1% Wall Street Sales Tax

reply to post by FyreByrd


You know how they say that the road to sulphur laden dungeons is paved with good intentions? Well the same can pretty much be said of the Progressive ideas about Utopian Socialist societies being financed on the backs of the rich.

Originally posted by jacobe001

Originally posted by TauCetixeta

Wall Street is Free Market Capitalism in action. It's not going anywhere.

Millions of Americans have been "padding their pockets" with growing 401k

portfolios values.

Stop being so negative. It won't work. You are filled with hate.

Free Market Capitalism in Action???
I don't know where to even start with this post.

Free Market Capitalism would mean the Banks aren't in bed with the government, that they are surviving on their own without tax payer bailouts. That they are loaning only to the markets and not stealing from the tax payer through Quantitative Easing. I could go on and on with examples.

I think we should tax all socialists 10% of their bank accounts.

We could take that money and build some brand new bridges and roads!

I got the idea from those nuts in Cyprus!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by RedDragon

 

And you're failing at shooting him down.
All the way around. You're such a genius? So, are you in the 1%?

The problem with your worldview is you assume that everyone who opposes Socialism must of necessity be extremely wealthy. I doubt anyone in the so-called 1% would be spending their time on this forum.

Originally posted by Kali74
Some really interesting things going on in this thread, hopefully I can address them all with this post and answer any posts that were directed to me.


A society as large and advanced as ours cannot exist without government, ideologically I'm in the realm of anarchist so trust me when I say that I don't like government, I don't like authority and I don't like this practice of adding more and more laws to the book. I don't like any of it but at the same time I recognize the reality that we don't exist in a paradigm that we can have such a large, advanced society (which I like) without some type of government. To have any kind of functioning order we have to agree to some ground rules (the Constitution) some of which may have to evolve as our society does. And we need taxes to fund it.

Currently we under the thumb of a system that allows those with the most to buy the law makers. You can scream all you want that the rich pay more than fair share, that they pay more taxes than the rest of us do... that they support the poor and so on. Those at the very top, are the top because they rigged the system, just as one poster pointed out that he is writing algorithms that exploit vulnerabilities in day trading (iirc), they rigged it to siphon wealth from every crack they could, up to the top. Some psychopaths may call that dominance of intelligence, but it isn't. There have been plenty of people to call it out, plenty to try and fix it... they're just labelled some flavor of un-American for their effort... so no, you're not thriving by being the fittest, you're only cheating.

I found it - hooray for me.

Your first point about idealistic anarachry vs realistic government is great. It the eternal battleground of humanity. Whenever you get two or more people working together you have politics and a system (which develops it's own psychic/spiritual entity) separate from the consistuient members that follows the law of systems and evolution.

I refer you to the work of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (I know) specifically "The Evolving Self". He speaks directly to this problem with extensive background from many disciplines. One of my favorite authors, not always an easy read - but improving with time.

Also the work of Riane Eisler, "The Chalice and the Blade" speaks to governing principals. It a long work but very interesting. Then there is work of Leonard Shlain, "The Alphabet vs The Goddess". Both of these chart and analyse the development of "Dominator Culture" (R. Eisler's term). Each theory of it's (Dominator Culture) rise is different and the two, taken together, are a powerful examination of how we got here and how we can move forward if we can become conscious individually and collectively of our history and mistakes.

To become a conscious creator of our future (singly and together) requires much self-examination which is very hard to do for anyone raised in a Dominator Culture, a culture of blame, shame and denial.

I'm way off topic here - forgive or ignore me as you see fit.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


link

I was surprised two weeks ago to walk into my local TD Bank, on Greenwich Avenue in the West Village, New York to find that the security officer who was usually standing by, on alert, had been replaced by a uniformed, armed, radio-carrying New York Police Department officer, Officer Battle. I confirmed from him that he was, in fact, an NYPD officer – and was working part-time for TD bank.

Of course, this raised red flags for me. After the violent crackdown on Occupy Wall Street in November of 2011, when that group was having some of its most significant successes in protests and actions that challenged private banks and Wall Street institutions, many wondered what had motivated the unexpected aggression against protesters by local police officers tasked, at least overtly by municipal law, with upholding their first amendment rights.

The NYPD became, at the time, coordinated in its crackdown once Occupy had started to target banks. Was there a relationship behind the scenes of which we were unaware?

Chase bank had made a gift of $4.6m to the Police Foundation – boasting on its website that this "was the largest" in that group's history, and hoping that the money would allow the NYPD to "strengthen security". This police fund, as well as some details of a Rudi Giuliani-initiated program by which police officers had been hired by corporations, created a brief stir online.

reply to post by Kali74

Well considering that every day all they do is think of new way to get that percentage back into there pockets and they have politicians, and even people payed to spreed there bull to the four corners of the world. I would say that your thinking small 1% is chump change, if anything maybe add a few 0 behind that one, in either case Wall street wont be going anywhere and they would still be making a profit even if they got taxed much much more then that. But hey it's funny how there all behind for taxing the people on the same product a thousand times day in and day out, but watch what happens when you try to come and take that penny from them. They know the game and the last thing they would want is to actually be caught and abide by its rules, after all that is the name of the game.

Ever hear of alternate dimensions, most of them are living in one. There are off-course much and many more dimensions then the whole gravy train one there all so fond off, in some humans are not even considered alive or intelligent creature, no more then humans would consider a rock as being sentient or as being alive. Strange world we live in were arguing endlessly about pointless things is the fulcrum and the highest pleasure of the human condition.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Look at the context of my post compared to HIS post and then you should be able to understand my cynicism. If one expects to use police to protect society, then don't bait them in protests which is what OWS was doing. I remember the live feeds well.
I understand we have elements of police state activity, but people were saying that the police were being paid to oppose protesters. I would be interested to know what budget that came out of.

Did you ever vist an OWS (Occupy Wall Street) encampment? I did and on a regular day, with no media, few cops. It was pouring rain (it was downtown LA - and we don't do well with rain), everything was muddy and leaking, had been for days. The couple of hundred 'residents' were doing pretty well policing themselves, orgainizing supplies and help for those members with specific needs, including elderly and handicaped. All the while holding classes for the community (which was why I was there) and working on ongoing projects.

There was a sense of urgency and irratation - but no panic or fights. I was there for several hours untill I couldn't take it any more. These were bette an more committed people that I.

Then there is the more recent Super Storm Sandy incident.

rt.com...

With social media as their beacon, OWS is using the limitless organizational power of the web to make a real impact on the ground with the help of local churches and city agencies. Occupy asked those wishing to get involved to tweet using the hashtag #SandyVolunteer and for those who need help to tweet using the hashtag #SandyAid. They have also set up a Facebook page to help coordinate logistical efforts.

Volunteers are currently canvassing the streets for those in need, giving aid when possible and passing back information to Recovers.org who, via their online toolkit, will match needs with offers.

An individual is vulnerable, a large group isn't. You guys are divided and that's what they want. Easily offended, everyone having an answer to a question nobody asked. Even if sb implies a question like:"should we limit....."

The word "limit" or "regulate" triggers a mechanism, which can only be compared to pavlows dogs. "Liberal- bark; Democrat- bark"

Working together is the key. Those silly animosities are a bad joke. G.W. Bush didn't solve anything, neither did B.H.Obama.

If you guys would work together... As an outstanding person, from far away over the ocean I must say: Unite, like in "United States of America".

"They" only fear YOU, the united people living here, listening to reason, not letting each other down. Social coheision and such...

Originally posted by bgold1212
reply to post by pjfry

 

They do exist in real life. What are you trading? A stock in Apple? The capital raised through stocks allows for companies to finance and expand their business.

As for banking, it is a difficult idea to grasp for many that banks do not reserve a 100% ratio of deposits. They have the ability to make money out of nothing by simply writing a new deposit and this scares people. But it is important to note that banks understand it is important to remain solvent and keep enough capital on hand to cover the demand for the day. At the end of the day interbank trading makes up for the difference with very low rates of borrowing.

We need a short quote to have context for your reply. These forum cannot be organized in back-and forth threads like email or other discussion board. That I know of anyway (if you can, somebody please tell me how). We need the context.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by RedDragon

 

I can only guess that you want the system to sell to people at prices they don't like

Oh, yeah, like people want to pay $4 for a loaf of freaking BREAD? Nearly that much for a gallon of GAS?
:shk:
So ridiculous.

This is a great analogy (not the right term? - help). This is an interesting comparison: It hit me like a ton of bricks - the price of a gallon of gas is the price of a loaf of bread and vice versa. Wonder if it holds true in countries beside the US (there is a whole world out there).

This is disturbing to me somehow.

reply to post by FyreByrd


German bread: 1.99€

1 pound, lasts 4 days

German Liter of gas (95 Octane): 1,60€

Lasts 7 miles on an average car.

Originally posted by bgold1212
reply to post by WaterBottle

 

False, I would be upset with any tax that affects the poor since they already receive entitlements, taxation makes no sense.

Also, I'm developing an algorithm for automated daytrading and this proposal would effectively kill it.

Honesty - Thank you.

Not to knock your position and we all do everything we have to in order to survive. But this "take care of number one" at the expense of everyone else is what has gotten us into this muck.

What happened to the idea of putting others first? Christianity used to preach it. But this new "Family" style christian fundamentalism is only preaching wealth as a measure of Christian Piety.(en.wikipedia.org...(Christian_organization) see the book "The Family" by Jeff Sharlet for a nauseating and frightening read.

What about "Right Livelihood"?

Again, thank you for being honest about your reasons for opposing this idea - it took guts and should be commended. Should something like this be put into place, I'm certain you will find another - perhaps not so lucrative - but maybe more fulfilling project to work on.

Originally posted by DupontDeux
reply to post by Kali74

 

I fail to see how this will accomplish anything but the delisting of every NYSE traded stock and the eventeal shutdown of NYSE itself.

Seriously, I don't get it?

Why on earth would ANYONE be doing any sort of financial trading in the US if a 1% was implemented? I have no financial background but I really can't imagine that the US wouldn't be entirely bypassed by the entire, global financial sector.

I can also not imagine that that would do the American economy any good at this point..

Many other countries do have such taxes - and more are likely to impose them in coming years. They have been around in the us since 1914.

Do some research - Dude.

To quote a quote from: www.americanprogress.org...

It has been more than 70 years since John Maynard Keynes wrote about the value of a financial transaction tax in “mitigating the predominance of speculation over enterprise in the United States.” A financial transaction tax works by levying a miniscule fee on the estimated $2.9 trillion of daily financial activity through the trading of stocks, bonds, and derivatives in U.S. financial markets, based on our analysis. The tiny tax makes some of the most speculative unproductive trading unprofitable, thus steadying markets and promoting real investment while raising much-needed revenues. Though many countries around the world already have a financial transaction tax in place, the United States does not yet levy such a fee on trading.

Highly speculative investments bear a great risk, which sadly is covered by the people. Privatise winnings and Socialize the losses. Bail us out.

Keep your head up american workers, you will maybe win eventually, or will you?

Talk about Europe and be smug...

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by jefwane
I'm generally anti-tax unless there are also spending cuts going with it, but I could live with this for one reason. HFT (High Frequency Trading) has allowed institutions that practice it to steal a penny millions of times a day from other market participants. I'd personally like to see a method that exposed HFT traders to execution risk instead of allowing them to put in hundreds or thousands of bids and move the price in the way they wish and then cancel the bids. Making all bids valid for 2 or 3 seconds (possibly even shorter) would help reduce the impact of HFT on the markets.

I'd love to see some predatory malware slipped into some of these networks. Just to watch those sh*ts freak out when their systems (designed by physics PhDs and completely incomprehensible to regulators) begin eating their bank accounts. Man, I'd pay-per-view that meltdown.

I believe this is already happening and is the cause of the CyberSecuity freak out going on these days. More so then the actual security to infrastructure reasons given in public. Hackers are getting much more sophisticated in penetrating and moving funds without detection for longer periods of time. I just worked on an account that the owner didn't notice thousands of dollars of fraudulent activity for over a year - a bank teller finally found it - the banks systems didn't see the pattern of fraud. I don't think the source was ever discovered.

Originally posted by jimmiec

The powers that be do not want to fix America's economy. The planet has 7 billion people on it. They believe the world is getting out of control and they want to control it. Having free Americans with guns and a Constitution to back them up will get in the way of a One World Body to control everything. No, America is being bankrupt on purpose for their agenda of world control.

Sometimes you just can't get a break in life with satan at the helm hell-bent on sinking the ship!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

You know how they say that the road to sulphur laden dungeons is paved with good intentions? Well the same can pretty much be said of the Progressive ideas about Utopian Socialist societies being financed on the backs of the rich.

You must be the TOP EXPERT in playing the socialist "everyone on welfare is lazy" card. After years and years of repeating the same lies I am sure you believe them. Don't look at fixing capitalism by getting the parasites out of it, just keep looking for new scapegoats.

What is going to be after the communists? Maybe santa claus?

As a german, the polarisation of the american people frightens me.

Even simple facts seem to be occupied by one of the two parties. I can't understand why you guys (I like the USA) can't get together and sort things out.
It's not easy to get across that river, but after you touched common ground, you may consider otherwise. YOU are the people.

Divided in halfs, you are weak.

From an outside view, as an european i have to say: listen to reason

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

You know how they say that the road to sulphur laden dungeons is paved with good intentions? Well the same can pretty much be said of the Progressive ideas about Utopian Socialist societies being financed on the backs of the rich.

You know how they say that money is the root of all evil? Well, the same can be said of the conservative/tea party ideas about Utopian Capitalist societies where the rich get richer, and the poor and disabled can just go to hell (after they've given the rich all their money).

reply to post by pjfry


Both the first and second amendment have become watered down and meaningless.

People with too much money and time to spare have perverted the system to their agenda.

Germany isn't much better though as they extort the PIIGS nations, correct? I think EU was a terrible idea from the beginning. Anything that centralises power robs the locals from a meaningful voice and customs/traditions erode.

The same people who control the EU also control USA! I like to think of it as NATO versus russia/china. What is the purpose of NATO after Warsaw Pact dissolved 20 years ago? To make money and bring WW3 it seems....