Police tie man to chair, Pepper spray his face for 20 Mins.

Originally posted by boncho
Is it normal procedure to put a spit mask on someone after they have been pepper sprayed? I think in these cases it should be one or the other. If pepper spray is used to remedy a situation when an officer is spit on, so be it, it's used and it worked and no need for anything else. But if a spit mask prevents them from spitting, and nothing else is needed, put the mask on.

Normal procedure? No idea.. In my department, no its not. With this being said people need to understand that detention facilities / law enforcement / etc all use differing criteria. Just because facility A may allow it does not mean facility B one state over does.

The purpose of a spit mask is self explanatory.
The purpose of pepper spray is not. Pepper spray is used to "change the channel". When dealing with people who are "focused", pepper spray can be used to change that focus. A person who is resisting detention staff and spitting at officers might very well stop that behavior while trying to focus on why his eyes are burning and nose running.

Again, not justifying, just explaining its intended use / purpose.

Originally posted by boncho
Spraying someone and then putting a mask on them smells of intent to cause suffering.

To an extent I can agree with this, and I have already stated I think when the action is based on revenge, so to speak, its wrong.

Originally posted by boncho
Do I think it's okay for the inmate to spit on the officer? I don't think anyone should spit on anyone. But by that circumstance, doesn't the officer have the right to charge the inmate?

First thing to think about - What communicable diseases does this individual have? People who are not familiar with this side of things don't think about some of those questions.

Secondly - as for charging it depends. For the most part Corrections staff are not commissioned law enforcement. Also correction settings are viewed differently than an officer patrolling the street. A lot of what we can charge on the road fall under administrative directives in corrections facilities.

As an example in my state we have a law called assault on emergency personnel. This law covers Police, Fire Fighters, EMS and Security. It does not cover corrections officers. They have their own law specifically covering them.

Correctional facilities are not the same as county / city jails. They do not fall under law enforcement. they are a part of the judicial system.

Originally posted by boncho
So more charges and more time, all for spitting... Maybe the inmate might realize the futility of it all. In any case, that is justice, taking it into your own hands whether or not you are on the job is unacceptable.

Not necessarily more time... most likely reduced privileges. As for the last part I agree 100%.

Originally posted by boncho
If what was done was standard protocol, then so be it. Something that should be up for debate if the public is not comfortable with it.

Please stop using the term Standard Protocol in the manner you are. There is nothing standard about it and what you see in one facility in one state is not the same as another facility in another state.

Originally posted by boncho
I can think of three recent deaths in Canada (jails), one was when Corrections workers put a kid in with a serial killer. Serial killer killed his bunk mate. The other was a young girl who hung herself after mistreatment and extended sentences for no criminal behaviour. Third I remember hearing about a young kid getting killed over a bag of chips while in detention. (Hadn't been proved guilty yet.)

So while some might think, "The officer should get _________. (Insert angry overblown punishment)." and other people might say, "serves the bastard right, hope he rots in jail."
...There are some of us that just think, damn, two people end up in a place like that and both must really, really, deep down hate what their life involves...

edit on 22-3-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

The laws are different between Canada and the US, especially when it comes to corrections. As for the officers actions in the jail, did they violate policy - absolutely, and the facility says so. Did his actions violate criminal statutes? From what I see and have researched no.

Did his actions violate the inmates civil rights under 42 USC 1983? - Most likely.

Once a person is in custody, those people are responsible for the inmates / prisoners safety, regardless of how we may feel about those inmates / prisoners.

With this being said, I would rather work a Domestic violence call alone than work corrections. At least there I have a 50 / 50 chance of coming out of it alive. That percentage drops for correction officers, where 1 officer over see's 50 people +/-.

Here is what happens when a Corrections Officer does it right.


Here is a video on the 19 year old hanging herself.. There was a bit more to it than what was generally known.. Either way its still sad..

reply to post by seabag
I agree with you on this case i took the time to watch the long video...In a nutshell this is why its called Jail and/or prison...Its not the Ritz Hotel. To spit at a guard is considered a life threat because some inmates have AIDS and therefore saliva is considered a weapon.

reply to post by shells4u


Spiting on someone WILL NOT give them AIDS. Come on! everyone knows that.

So he wasn't tied to a chair and wasn't sprayed for 20 minutes? Nice title.

The kid had a mouth on him and decided to spit on people that he obviously felt were beneath him. At some point, you deserve to be treated the way you treat others.

Question to all:

Okay so how would you all feel if we took all and I mean all the USA prison population (that is like 2,000,000 humans) and burned them at the stake.

Yay?

or

Nay?

reply to post by Agent008


I'd rather see them released. Or you could keep the worst lot and put them in some ppv death match type thing like they used to do in Rome. I just don't think people should be thrown in a cage for non violent offenses.

It used to be that if you stole something they cut off your hand. What was so wrong with that?

reply to post by Theimp


Agree with cutting off a hand for stealing, you wont be stealing ever again eh. They still do that in the middle east don't they?

EDIT:
But! do we want to continue to live in a dog eat dog world? Most people steal because they either cannot afford food or water.
Every human should be provided Food Water Shelter as a birth right no if's and's or but's. Period.

reply to post by Agent008


I agree that at this point in modern society, a point where we can make an inch wide tv, optional housing should be provided to those that want it, free of charge. I just think it's something that people shouldn't have to pay for in an advanced society unless they want something bigger and better.

But, as to food and the whole "dog eat dog" thing, I have to disagree based solely on the point that the more taken care of we are the more domesticated we become. If you rely on Government for every thing then Government controls you. They tell you how high to jump and you do it or no food, water, electric, etc. That's not a road we want to go down.

reply to post by Theimp


That is how we live right now though, if we f*** up with a payment bam! power is off or whatever.
I mean that those rights food, water, shelter, are inalienable, a birth right. So if you commit a crime hell stab a dude in the neck for no reason ya you go to prison (not get pepper sprayed while handcuffed to a chair) when you get out you have all the help you need free access to a counselor and a place to stay with a warm meal. Would that not make for happy or at least content humans? I know a lot of people don't but I truly believe that every person is capable of having a life free of suffering if we all try to help the ones that are suffering. I'm a humanist.

reply to post by Agent008


The problem is, as with most things, is who is going to pay for this free food, shelter, water, education, etc.? We already basically give people free housing, food, and whatever else they want. It's called welfare. It's already almost impossible to fail in this country. If you don't want to work, you just sit home and watch Oprah. That's not stopping people from stealing though.

reply to post by Theimp


Come on dude you know what I mean. Yes I know how abused welfare is, that could be a thread on its own. Consider how we think of air. Oxygen to breath is free because there is so much of it it would not be profitable to charge for it. This same idea can be applied to food and water. I read somewhere that the amount of food that is thrown out as "waste" in one day in all the restaurants in North America could feed every starving person in the world.........for one year.
My point is food should be provided to all humans for free for the simple fact that we need it to live.

This is waaaayyyy off topic! Save this for different thread (I'll make one tomorrow )

Biggest misleading title I have seen in a while.

He wasn't sprayed for 20 minutes and the unruly inmate was put in a restraining chair. He also spit and the they put a mask on him to prevent him from further spitting.This is newsworthy somehow

reply to post by mugger


AND covered the mask in pepper spray! Hello? Anybody home?

reply to post by Agent008


Normally i do not stand on the police officers side. But when it comes to spitting on people. it does not matter if it happened to a cop or me or you. who ever spits on somebody better be ready for a A#* beating It is just that simple.
You spit on somebody that IS ASSAULT and as far as i am concerned that threat of spit landing on you. could have a sickness could be simple cold could be HIV nobody knows... the spitter could have just killed you and you not even know it. so yeah a good as^ beating is very much due.....

DO NOT SPIT ON PEOPLE AND IF YOU DO YOU SHOULD KNOW YOU GOT ONE COMING

reply to post by Agent008


I would be for it, but wed have to revamp the system. First I don't think prison is the place for non violent offenders, they should be in work camps or something. All rapist, child molesters and murderers or any crime that warrants a sentence of over say 50 years should be convicted, one appeal within say 5 years then good by or good night.

reply to post by Agent008


but that decision was overruled by Corrections Commissioner Joseph Ponte


well at least we know who the real scum bag is

reply to post by pinkplusfloyd


and his head was being pinned to the wall or chair,


so the mans tied up (handcuffed) has his head slammed into a wall, pepper sprayed and left to sit in it with a hood over his head..... yah that sounds like a fit punishment for some spit.. since it is assault on an officer what an f ing joke..... its ok once the guy has a chance outside of jail, im sure hell be looking for that cops house

If spits, spit back at him. or douse him with a fire hose.

reply to post by essanance


Yea and the non violent offenders don't have to get moved on by extraction teams for doing something that was against the rules. I and about your pepper spray theory that there are some blends that will kill people if they are sprayed to much is complete BS. Almost every police department and Corrections department use Sabre Red. 0.9 it is very strong but it will not make a person go blind and will certainly not kill someone. If a person has asthmsa then the doctors or people in the HSU in the prison have a order saying they can not be sprayed. You miss the fact that I actually do this job. I am a corrections officer.

I think the point to remember here is, these folks in uniform are your friends, they are there to help you, they are the best the country has to offer and they never, ever do wrong. This sentiment is what those in charge want us to believe.

Consider, a person who is capable of doing this, or group, has no moral compass at all - none. They "justify" actions like this by saying things like, "it's not against the law" or "we have rules, and we followed the rules." They have left the idea of creating and following a moral compass based on compassion for man and their connection with a society of people, and replaced with with preordained laws and rules they themselves didn't create. Many of us would never be spurred to do something like this, but it appears, from the video, they had no trouble in garnering folks to join the fun and teach this guy a lesson.

Wait, oh, "Teach people a lesson." Several folks wrote this line in their response. I have to ask, who decided that people without a hint of morality in their system, without a hint of compassion in their soul, are the "teachers" of anyone, let alone the people who may need a lot of teaching? Why do the lessons come with guys with guns, face shields, body armor, and free pass at killing or torturing anyone they wish because they have a badge? When was the last time you were taught a good lesson, one that really helped you evolved, that involved PEPPER SPRAY?

It s a society in decline that leaves the educating of folks to those who feel this kind of action is acceptable. Even worse, it is a flat-lined society that decides that it's least moral, least compassionate, least educated, are the ones who are the ones in charge, where guns, pepper spray and body armor are the tools we use to help people get the message.