Is the belief in conspiracy theories really just a sign of mental illness.

well, when you know something and others say you are crazy for believing it even in the face of evidence it is maddening.

case in point was 911 and how I absolutely know they knew it was coming because they themselves told me in a book 8 years before it happened.

Republican task force on terrorism and unconventional warfare

that foreknowledge told me all I needed to know that the os is a lie and in that book there is even a forward by a congressman so there is no way they didn't see it coming, allow it to happen, and capitalize on the deaths of 3000 people not to mention the who knows how many since.

and then along comes the usual crew (we and they all know who they are) to naysay everything that is incriminating... who is bearing false witness here and more importantly... why don't they have a conscience?

The gov could have ended all the speculation by simply releasing the evidence, and don't ask what evidence like you got a pristine heart because we all know there are things being kept from the general public but are then supposedly made available to popular mechanics to write a book called debunking 911 myths where the head editor of pm is recorded lying.

sure, we are all crazy because ultimately they have no reason to lie now do they? meh w/e America got duped again and it probably won't be the last time so get used to it

Originally posted by kthxbai
reply to post by Logarock

 

Logic is the key. If it can be verified through logic, ACTUAL logic, not crazy-logic, then you're safe. If it goes off on impossible tangents and grasps at straws instead of actual logic, then you're nuts.

But faries wear boots yea you gots to believe me. If you havent ever seen one then you are nuts and dont even know it. How can you be reached?

I have one: accusation of mental illness is an opportunity to make a conspiracy theory.

No, it's not a sign of mental illness. When I was introduced to the idea of conspiracy theorists, they were guys with a shoulder camcorder or the film in cameras that you had to wind yourself, UFO pictures on negatives developed in a darkroom, the monthly articles that were written on typewriters and mimeographed and mailed every month or so, or a magazine; and they had connections with others in the intelligence communities and the military groups, spy fans and all other curious people who loved a good campfire story.

Back then it was regarded a hobby, like birdwatching or stamp collecting. Of course there were those who wanted to ignore the whole suggestion of believing in something different and working to get evidence of it, and those were the ones usually saying the conspiracy theorists were a bunch of spooks, kooks, wackos, and nuts. Of course the naysayers were usually the ones who had signed their belief allegiance away to some other commitment (and from my observation, they were afraid to discuss things like aliens and scrutiny about government activities).

Actually, there are conspiracy theories about those who go about discrediting theories and theorists as mentally ill. It's a government disinfo tactic, to discredit witnesses with allegations of insanity. The military calls the same tactic a psyop. Smear campaign, sort of like hate speech or propaganda, maybe gaslighting. Agencies and governments of the past and present have used psychology and psychiatry to silence and misdirect their critics, opponents, whistleblowers, and anybody who knows something the current regime thinks they shouldn't know.

I like to call it the psych-out when people use psychological terminology to try to discredit someone else. To me, it will always be a natural self-defense mechanism of the human psyche, denial, trying to find a cheaper or more efficient conclusion to what might be a personal mystery. (as in, if I don't understand it, you must be crazy, problem solved with the tools I have on hand, I'm protected and now you aren't) It happens all the time with people who live to fit in with everybody else. It's human nature to deny like that, but you know we all have to at ATS, deny ignorance.

Whatever would people do if psychology had never been taught to them?

Overly - perhaps...but it would be delusional to think that group dynamics of any number do not operate for thier own ends...ask a psychiatrist!

Collusion of any kind is thought to only occur within small groups, but the reality is, that nations, countries, states, population, pressure groups, family groups...collude, to 'conspire'...the prevailing thought on this is to dismiss its appearance as a myth or theory...and in hindsight, the conspiracy can still operate, as long as there is verbal, tacit and practical agreement on the ongoing outcomes...

...and within the framework of collusion, sometimes the outcome is not a feature which is revealed - hence its 'hidden' quality, which, from the outside, and to those who do not credit basic human dynamics (or the lengths they will go to maintain a group position) it appears as shady and without substance...when the effects of the dynamics are plain to see...

A better question would be...

Why would 'professional' (and I use the word very very loosely) organisations claim that believing in conspiracy is a sign of mental illness?

...smells like a 'conspiracy' to me...

A99

Originally posted by December21st2012
Are us conspiracy theorists really just mad?

So I stumbled on this and it got me thinking, well almost questioning my own sanity. I have never been to see a psychiatrist, should I be worried just because I have an interest in these theories?
Then I also began to wonder, how many people that post actively here might also have these concerns, perhaps have already been diagnosed or even on medication.

Is this the road down which we are travelling?

Ever hear that classic scenario about the schizophrenic talking to themselves in the street, going on about government and/or aliens putting laser beams into their brain? A psychiatrist once told me he had two patients like that. And then there is the Internet with photos of alien implants and actual science about synthetic bio-circuits and wireless vortex beams.

So if you happen to know a person like that, and manage to communicate with them, do you have the conspiracy cooties now?

"Help me doctor, I have the conspiracy cooties after talking to some nut on the bus, where is the pill to cure my belief in aliens?" Maybe the doctor is like a confessional for your mis-thinking, and you need to repent? Maybe taking a few blue pills like reciting our fathers and some red pills like hail marys? Wearing a little diagnosis on your medical bracelet instead of a tattoo to reflect your beliefs? That's Big Pharma's sway on people.

Yeah there are a lot of self-righteous pop psychologists out there converting more souls into denial. Be careful about the psych-out movement. They don't have a diagnosis: normal.

There was a time when I would have said no way to this question.

Now? I am seeing something different going on concerning conspiracies. Many theories and theorists seem to be off. As somewhat of a CT myself it worries me a bit. What I am attempting to sort out for myself is are CTs crazy or am I seeing an attempt to degrade true CTs?

Some of the things that I've encounter recently are just crazy, borderline hysteria. I've not participated here too much lately and decided to drop in tonight to feel the vibe here.

I would not say that 'Conspiracy Theorists' are worthy of their own distinct brand of mental illness.

Though I will suggest that some people with OCD-like illnesses that are conspiracy theorists, could likely make it -seem- like it was it's own separate illness.

Say for example the person with OCD, fixated on the Kennedy killing. They'd likely collect every book, video-tape, dvd, web link, organised into various data sets and could talk for hours on why they think JFK was killed. At length and at detail. Which Joe Average Sheeple who might hold with his own beliefs that it was Oswald, might take our OCD truther as completely batty.

It's that perspective thing, much like the Birther crud and how various people have formed an OCD like 'focus' on it.
Like a certain unstable rabid lawman in Arizona.

M.

reply to post by December21st2012
I think your right,something is very wrong.
Thanks for letting me know.

reply to post by December21st2012


Of course not. There is a level of reasonability and skepticism of the conspiracy theory itself that is not only good, it's essential to being a good detective.

However, to suggest that people who question events and occurrences, people who often show buckets of evidence supporting the notion that a group of persons conspired to achieve some end by the aforementioned events or occurrences...to suggest that these inquisitive people are mentally unstable or 'crazy' as some of you so eloquently put it, is just another slice out of the tripe pie.

There is always a balance; clearly there are many people who don't realize that questioning and analyzing important events that cause harm/affect things in a great way is actually a very GOOD thing to do. In a court room, if you have reasonable doubt, the case goes on until you reach a verdict. As far as I'm concerned, every person is a jury member, but too many people either fly off the handle and make wild accusations with unsubstantiated claims about conspiracy, and still others seem to proverbially plug their ears saying "La la la I cant hear you!!"

Now that, is mad.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
The term "conspiracy theory" was apparently coined by the CIA in the 1950's when too many people were reporting UFO sightings and public belief in ET's was growing, and they were looking for ways to counteract this, coming up with the term "conspiracy theory" as a perjorative was one of many solutions.

Not true.

A search of old newspapers finds numerous references (and in titles of books) going back all the wat to the 19th century.
Here, for example, is one from 1868 (talking about Queen Victoria)...

She may seem to award to her present Premier a degree of favour which, considering how direct and plain her dealings have ever been, appears to denote her sympathy with his policy, but she surely comprehends that his conspiracy theory is a mere party battle-horse for which she need not find stable room.

and one from 1882...

...but the Crown's advisers seem to have dropped the conspiracy theory when they came to the second trial, because they dropped one man who, according to Hicks, was an undoubted conspirator...

Its an old phrase, often used.

reply to post by December21st2012


The only True MENTAL ILLNESS is to beleive and forever Trust the Multitude of Wrong Diagnosis made by Qualified Medical Consultants. How often are they Nuts ??? Whooops, sorry, that sounds like a Conspiracy

I prefer to call myself a Conspiracy Factualist... where does that place me on that mental scale?



Are these the same lame people who said all that stuff about Winnie the Pooh?

I just thought of something. I mentioned this in a previous post, but I'll mention it again.

Belief in God versus Conspiracy Theories...

I think we can all agree that a belief in God is essentially irrational. Worse, people don't just think maybe or kind of or mostly or probably. They BELIEVE. Not somewhat or vaguely!

I don't know about others, but I've NEVER investigated a conspiracy theory and came away believing it so much that I could not doubt it. Even conspiracy theories like UFOs and Bigfoot, the ones I've put most of my time in, I've never believed with anything resembling certainty. I have more certainty in a nuclear physicist being able to understand how a nuclear power plant works than I do in the genuine existence of ET UFOs as they're reported. In fact, I have more certainty that the typical news channels are accurate than I do that a UFO case I read about is an actual instance of somebody or some group witnessing something extra-terrestrial.

See, i always have the curiosity. It hasn't left me. I have about 5 UFO books on my shelf still. In all my life, I might have 5 others that I donated. But I sometimes will look at them and still not KNOW. I have not come to a conclusion about UFOs. How can I? There's nothing that's irrefutable.

Yet, so many people I know do not have the same sense of wonder that I do. They just do not wonder about these things. They look at me like I've lost my mind if I even bring it up.

So I don't bring it up. Hell, I can't bring up anything anyway. Want to talk about the universe? Oh, you think that's just some gas bag scientist? Oh, you think they're just all intellectuals?

So my conversations with most people are cut short. And I end up feeling weird. Yet, I know there're other weird people out there. One way I find them is by going online. It's just a tactic.

Anyway, I came here to say there's a very real difference between those who have an interest in conspiracy theories and people who have religious faith. It's a matter of the presence of doubt. And I believe the presence of doubt means you have some amount of ability to rationalize it. The lack of doubt or the denial of its presence would be far more worrisome in my view.

Allow me to suggest that maybe conspiracy theorists DO have a mental disorder and it increases their curiosity to extreme amounts. Ever heard "Curiosity killed the cat"?

Too much curiosity when the evidence is too little.

BUT curiosity is not certainty. It's not a belief. It's just an impulse to wonder or investigate.

No; the belief in conspiracy theories is the result of not participing in Normalcy bias.
You decide. Deny Ignorance

There is also another dynamic at work here in the community setting. That "group think" or "mob mentality"
There is definite change in people when they are gathered in groups and their actions are less inhibited or even grounded in sanity..

Remember the cab incident in Montreal I think it was, where a gang of punks wanted to attack a cab driver and the cabbie decided to try to run them over? While the cabby was alone he assimilated into the violent mentality because that was what he was experiencing. The sane thing would have been to just drive away but instead he turned and made a bee-line for the worst offender. The guy that got run over acted like he was innocent even though he had clearly instigated it all and had paid painfully for it.

The point is, how close is the ATS community to that fight or flight response but on the intellectual plane? In other words accept what the crowd believes without hesitation or remain an independent thinker even if it goes against all others beliefs ( leeched off each other)

So if the independent thinker isn't like all the rest the crowd rejects any possibility of a different flavor of truth than what they believe they are tasting.. In this sense, who would be considered ill. the loner or the mob persuasion?

Take that a step further, the lone thinker knows what he is talking about but prior bias prevents the mob mentality from making that conscious shift to reality, and especially if that reality is so far out there it is being rejected en mass because its one of those you've got to see it to believe it kind of things.

Would it be considered a mental illness to try to convince when nobody will believe or would it be saner to just join the crowd - a means of being accepted by peers rather than feeling alienated?

Take the lone thinker as all of us and the mob as the sleepers out there in tv land.

I think perhaps we all have a weakness in this regard because not only are we going against the mainstream, but we are going against each other with all that "youtube isn't proof" yada yada yada, I'm sure you've all seen the ploys to diminish worth of something of dubious nature to begin with... but like I am saying, what if the lone thinker knows without a doubt that what he is presenting to his peers is legit but it still gets rejected because of that universal bias of "that's not proof".

Some things you wouldn't believe unless you had seen or experienced them yourself and some things have no proof other than what was experienced.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence .

Now apply that to Faith and a belief in God and even on this very thread having Faith was portrayed as being a mental illness.

Is denial so ingrained within you that nothing short of the 2nd coming would convince you? Or are believers insane just because you have a void and can't comprehend what is the unknown to begin with?

I really am curious just how far that fight or flight response is within me as I really have no need to tell you anything and I would lose nothing by just jetting out of here..
I have no need for a mob in my life yet I would feel like I failed you if I did.

Call me crazy but I care about you and your spiritual health even though many won't even give this a second thought and dismiss it because sometimes truth isn't what you are expecting or in this case, even hoping for and defies logic or proof unless you find it within.

just food for thought

reply to post by December21st2012


How do we know that NOT believing in conspiracy theories isn't a sign of mental illness?

Chew on that for a bit

Originally posted by December21st2012
Are us conspiracy theorists really just mad?

So I stumbled on this and it got me thinking, well almost questioning my own sanity. I have never been to see a psychiatrist, should I be worried just because I have an interest in these theories?
Then I also began to wonder, how many people that post actively here might also have these concerns, perhaps have already been diagnosed or even on medication.

Is this the road down which we are travelling?

The short answer is a very nearly 'probable'.

If you went and visited a mental institution and spent time talking with inmates there, you would think you walked into an ATS convention.

Take no offense, I'm referring to conspiracy stuff only.

I would say a sign of mental illness is to blindly belief what the MSM tells you.Its called the "I don't want to actually ever use my brain" syndrome aka "voluntary sleeping sickness".

Well...I can't speak for anyone but myself....but...for a while....especially after reading all the doom and gloom and conspiracies about the economic meltdown and run on the banks, (all of which might still happen), I had to stop reading all the "conspiracy theories" for a while because I was getting depressed and anxious...especially as this is the first time in my career (I am aged 46), that I have EVER had a hard time getting a full time, DECENT PAYING job in my field.....and I am about to inherit a decent amount of money, (if the life insurance company will stop stalling), and as a result of this coming "boon" in my crumbling finances, now I worry that the only time I will ever see this kind of money and BAM....the economy will crash the day after I get that check.....all this thinking is enough to DRIVE one mad...that's for sure.....

So....I can see where worrying too much or reading too much of these "theories" can drive one "mad"....and having a little bit of experience with the scammers called psychiatrists....according to them, we're all crazy anyhow....as some posters have already pointed out......

reply to post by December21st2012


it depends

the easiest analogy is to compare it to drinking

is 3 bottles of wine a week a sign of mental illness ???

how about a litre of vodka before breakfast ??????

you cannot lump " conspiracy theorists " in one homogenous mass to which general observations apply

i would contend that you are mentally ill if you do not believe in certain conspiracies , but belief in others [ sometimes singly ] is also a sign of further mental illness

clear as mud ?