Navy considering CFTs for Super Hornet fleet

Interesting...

reply to post by boomer135

Most people will agree that the YF-23 whipped the crap out of the YF-22 in just about every aspect of the competition, with a few exceptions

Perhaps those unfamiliar with the scope of the ATF competition and the performance/financial requirements it entailed.

This topic has been beaten to death on this site and others so I'll save myself the trouble of digging through various reference books to substantiate this; it's all out there.

reply to post by boomer135


That is not a YF-22, as evidenced by the forward fuselage/cockpit characteristics and a few other differences apparent between the YF-22 and F-22.

reply to post by boomer135


That's why we come to ATS . Aside from always reading Zaphod58 threads heh.

Great pics btw.

Originally posted by Pants3204
That is not a YF-22, as evidenced by the forward fuselage/cockpit characteristics and a few other differences apparent between the YF-22 and F-22.

edit on 22-3-2013 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)

For the purposes of the comparison though, the differences are negligible, so it doesn't matter. The YF-22 was a couple of feet longer, and slightly taller, but the F-22 had a bigger wingspan.

reply to post by boomer135


May be this plane will come back soon in the form of a 6th gen fighter, the Lockheed concept of a 6th gen fighter is looking closer than YF-23, the Northrop plane was a beauty, and it would be a pleasure to see this concept come back in different form.

Originally posted by Pants3204
reply to post by boomer135

 

Most people will agree that the YF-23 whipped the crap out of the YF-22 in just about every aspect of the competition, with a few exceptions

Perhaps those unfamiliar with the scope of the ATF competition and the performance/financial requirements it entailed.

This topic has been beaten to death on this site and others so I'll save myself the trouble of digging through various reference books to substantiate this; it's all out there.

reply to post by boomer135

 

That is not a YF-22, as evidenced by the forward fuselage/cockpit characteristics and a few other differences apparent between the YF-22 and F-22.

edit on 22-3-2013 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)

Im curious to know whats "all out there". Cause as far as I know, the only concrete reason the YF-23 lost the competition was due to management issues. The rest of the information is all hearsay from various people "in the know" and as far as I know, no information came from the Air Force or DOD about the technical aspects of the fly-off.

As for the YF-22 and F-22A, I apologize for the typo. I wasn't trying to show a difference between the two variants. But did you know that they made a F/A-22???

reply to post by boomer135

the YF-23 whipped the crap out of the YF-22 in just about every aspect of the competition

Then I'm curious how you make these claims with an air of confidence, as if you haven't just contradicted yourself. And I'm also curious why the opposite position can't be held because of "hearsay."

forget all this crap...BRING ON THE VIPERS!!!!

Originally posted by Pants3204
reply to post by boomer135

 

the YF-23 whipped the crap out of the YF-22 in just about every aspect of the competition

Then I'm curious how you make these claims with an air of confidence, as if you haven't just contradicted yourself. And I'm also curious why the opposite position can't be held because of "hearsay."

edit on 24-3-2013 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)

I like how you left out the first part of my quote that starts with " most people would agree" I never said it wasn't hearsay. I'm basing my statement off of what I know personally and what I've heard from industry insiders and a general lack of data on the YF-23 from the air force or the DoD. The opposition can hold the same position against my claim due to hearsay. That's what's great about a debate isn't it?

However, the general consensus is that the YF-23 was stealthier than the 22 but the 22 was more agile. James Goodell even wrote this in one of his books. Also noted by General electric was that if the 22 could reach 1.6M in supercruise, the 23 could reach 1.8 easily. But the data remains classified

Don't get me wrong I did so much work with the f-22 in regards to air refueling, and I love that plane but from everyone ive talked to have said that if Lockheed built the 23 instead of the 22 the 23 would have won.

reply to post by boomer135


The lobbying of Lockheed in the fighters is enormous and I think Lockheed will win, may be in the futur Bomber and futur fighter, surely in the futur Northrop will make the stealth drone, Boeing the transport and refueling, and Lockheed the combat plane, its my opinion do you think the same?

reply to post by darksidius


I agree 100% that seems the way this are going right now. However we can't forget the bird of prey, from Boeing. If the rcs is anywhere close to what is speculated, the plane may as well be the stealthiest we have ever seen. If they can take that piece of crap and make the design work better than it does, were looking at one sweet asset that most likely will be classified for decades to come. In my opinion, Boeing intentionally threw the jsf battle to sink more funds into there black projects. Of course I have no data to back it up and were not privy to the companies who build these black projects, but once you get to the point where your flying in the box on "specials" for air refueling support, you tend to ask as few questions as possible! ( And only take pics when there's no security on the jet with you )

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by sealing

 

Are you sure about that?

So are you hinting something here?

Like a YF-23 derived medium strike craft, a stealthy aardvark?

Sometimes you have to look at what the military-industrial complex is NOT bleating about wanting, the dog that isn't barking. Here's what I notice.

A-4 and A-6 long gone. A-12 cancelled. B-2 run cut short a long time ago. No obvious strike configuration of the F-22 to take over for F-15E. F-117 in the boneyard. And nobody's complaining. Nobody's making anything. Why? Is it all the SH and F-35 for everything? Both small short-range modest capability craft?

They bleat for the F-35 because it's a doggy money extraction machine (Or the money's going to something else).

reply to post by Zaphod58


Given the fuel fraction and external fuel load of the SH, I don't buy it for a second. The RAAF says "over 1000km" for interdiction mission which is 620 miles.

reply to post by C0bzz


There are missions with the Rhino where it has a decent combat radius. Compared to other aircraft designed for the same mission, it has terrible statistics, and this comes straight from pilots, so of you disagree, take it up with the people that know best.

reply to post by boomer135


Yes Bird of prey was a Boeing Black program and may be this design is just going black in another kind of plane, Lockheed win all the combat plane but Boeing with the Phantom works may have a lot of surprise for the futur. Boeing is in the head in the FA/XX concept, and may be they lose intentionaly the JSF contract to win the contract of futur FA/XX. Boeing seem more in advance than Lockheed on this concept, and Boeing have a very strong support in the Navy. But In my opinion the futur big contract will be the futur Bomber and may be Boeing can win this contract with the help on the tech demonstrator like the Bird of Prey.

There's a picture of a US Navy F model Hornet at the LIMA exhibition in Kuala Lumpur with a mock up CFT installed. They flew the aircraft down "clean" and after arriving installed the fake tanks. The aircraft with the real CFTs is expected to fly this summer for the first time.

www.flightglobal.com...

I remember seeing an F-16 for the first time with conformals and we couldn't tell what they were. We eventually asked the pilot over the boom interphone and that's when he told us. It looks pretty sharp with the F-16.

reply to post by mbkennel


Nothing concrete, but talking to a few people, and picking up rumors, it's a very real possibility that the F-23 was offered as a strike platform.

reply to post by boomer135


Yeah, I really like the F-16 with the CFTs, that's a pretty neat look. I really like the Block 60 look too. The UAE Desert Falcon is a sexy beast.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Pakistan has some pretty sharp looking f-16s with conformals