An idea worth censoring: 'The Science Delusion'

reply to post by BlueMule


One of the first ted talks I cringed while watching.

No wonder they wanted to censor it... He constructs straw man and then fights with it the whole talk. Its like watching Clint Eastwood talk to invisible Obama.

reply to post by squiz

You do realize that the Earth rotates once a day and is subject to external gravitational influences from the sun and the moon on a daily basis, right?

The tides have a daily cycle for example, because of gravitation from the moon.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Yes, and so does Sheldrake of course. Your responses prove his point. IMO. But you obviously don't see that.

I'd agree with a lot of this. Science knows virtually nothing of the universe, virtually nothing, yet believers in it claim it knows almost everything, they will say they don't know exactly how 'a black hole works' or 'what the edge of the universe looks like' yet they will go on to hypocritically claim otherwise when harassing believers in God. The fact is, we, as humans, know jack squat, we aren't in a position to definitively say it is this or that, one thing humans are good at is hating each other based on differing belief systems.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

All I got out of the lecture was another new age huckster pitching a strawman argument to sell a book ( what a disappointing excuse for a TED talk, it is fairly easy to see why the organisation chose not to feature the content)

Agree. What I got out of it was the implication that since we haven't quite figured out how the mind works, then it must be not in our heads. Since gravity wavers a bit here and there, then gravity must actually be a state where all matter is in the fist of a god, and that fist tightens and relaxes. The really sad part of this talk is that people WANT to believe in things that can't be validated in any way - like magic.

What's swarming our own nations?
Psychic hotlines
Palm readers
Talking with the 'dead'
Mediums
Channellers
Aliens instead of fairies and leprachauns
Angels in the cloud
Statues bleeding and crying
Lighting incense, candles
Rubbing Buddha bellies for good lock
Thanking the gods of luck and fortune
Angels and demons
Werewolves and vampires
Mind altering meditation
Imaginary sex with aliens and spirits - succubus and incubus

The occult for centuries have written that the day will arrive when 'science' will combine with esoteric knowledge, and to do this, the populace must buy it. And they WILL BUY it when they become prisoners of such superstitions and beliefs as those above. We are heading back to the dark middle ages whereby religion combines with science. It's there for all of us to see. They've been made to believe that such magic exists, therefore they will demand and accept new age occultist explanations if wrapped up in scientific terms. Science falsely called destroyed faith in creation, and thus Jesus Christ, and as such the population, yet again, revert straight back into superstititions and paganism. The very same science falsely called has a population now demanding explanations for such phenomena because they already believe it to be true. And the occultists step right in to give it - with yet more false science.

It is magic. It is lying signs and wonders. The same groups own all the 'science foundations', and all of their branding and logos signify their allegiance - '3rd eye enlightenment' and the coming DNA change that occultists await to make them 'godmen'. Unfortunately, they are all under the strong delusion that Our Creator sends, thus in their delusion they deceive others.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

What's swarming our own nations? Psychic hotlines Palm readers Talking with the 'dead' Mediums Channellers Aliens instead of fairies and leprachauns Angels in the cloud Statues bleeding and crying Lighting incense, candles Rubbing Buddha bellies for good lock Thanking the gods of luck and fortune Angels and demons Werewolves and vampires Mind altering meditation Imaginary sex with aliens and spirits - succubus and incubus

Wow! I never saw all of these false beliefs put together like this. We humans really are that stupid, eh?

And the stupidity continues when we add:

Religious speaking in tongues
Fearing a god that has supposedly killed everyone in a flood, and all of the firstborn of Egypt, but calling that fear: Love.
Believing in voodoo
astral projections
a single eternal consciousness
ghosts
demons
dream visions
oobe
NDE
Chakras
heaven and hell
levitation
the third eye
E.S.P.
wishing wells
lucky rabbit's foot
walking under ladders
bad luck for breaking mirrors
Ouija boards
magic

Wow, how in thee hell have we come so far with all of this crap?

Those interested in discovering the REAL interface between esoteric/mystical traditions of East and West and scientific discoveries in particle physics, molecular biology, etc, may want to spend the next six months studying the pioneering, rigorous research here. The scientic paradigm emerges as simply one piece of a larger picture that embraces the superphysical, as well as the physical, cosmos. What makes this website different from the many speculative, New Age sites on the internet is that certain scientific facts and discoveries in superstring physics are DEDUCED, like axioms of Euclid's geometry from conceptual schemes that transcend the limitations of science. You see, science never presents more than a continually updated representation, or model, of an element of reality, whereas esoteric traditions claim direct contact with that reality that transcends the limitations of such mental modelling. The scientific and occult descriptions of reality are actually two sides of the same coin. The linked website reveals that coin - the higher reality that integrates the scientific and mystical paradigms. It does so in a manner that cannot be refuted or disputed because it uses rigorous mathematics, not words and subjective argument.

reply to post by micpsi


Nice link, thanks. My wife is a scientist and she will dig it.

Originally posted by micpsi
What makes this website different from the many speculative, New Age sites on the internet is that certain scientific facts and discoveries in superstring physics are DEDUCED, like axioms of Euclid's geometry from conceptual schemes that transcend the limitations of science. You see, science never presents more than a continually updated representation, or model, of an element of reality, whereas esoteric traditions claim direct contact with that reality that transcends the limitations of such mental modelling.

Right. And for thousands of years, doing that got humans nowhere. After Galileo and Newton, and following them and experiment, stuff started working correctly.

The scientific and occult descriptions of reality are actually two sides of the same coin. The linked website reveals that coin - the higher reality that integrates the scientific and mystical paradigms. It does so in a manner that cannot be refuted or disputed because it uses rigorous mathematics, not words and subjective argument.

Using rigorous mathematics does not make anything beyond dispute, it just means it is consistent. You can read thousands of articles in Physical Review D with rigorous mathematical descriptions of various hypothetical particle theories, and nearly all of them are wrong---and not because of mathematical errors.

But at least they aren't compete nonsense like this gem I found on the referred website smphillips.8m.com...

And there isn't any even real mathematics in that (I was at least expecting some sensible group theory)

Rupert wants a debate, where are the knights of orthodoxy?

There is a war going on, and materialism is in the hostile denial phase.

reply to post by squiz

Rupert wants a debate

You mean you want a fight.

There is a war going on, and materialism is in the hostile denial phase.

A war against whom? The ghosts you believe are lurking within the recesses of every machine?

’Tis we, who lost in stormy visions, keep
With phantoms an unprofitable strife,
And in mad trance, strike with our spirit’s knife
Invulnerable nothings.

The war exists only in your imagination.

No Rupert wants one, I mean what are they afraid of?
Hancock also has a list of questions remaining unanswered regarding the false accusations.

When did materialism overcome the hard problem of consciousness? I must have missed that.
What material mechanism can explain semiosis?
Try reading the book irriducible mind, thick and chock full of scientific facts and references for you.

The evidence for non local and survival of consciousness is considerable. For survival there is a mountain of evidence, with many cases in peer reviewed medical journals. There' s no point having a link war with the likes of you. I have heard all the old tired arguments of pseudo skeptics. The evidence is there. Over a 140 years of it.

There is a war, do you know who Tom Nagel is?

Originally posted by squiz
No Rupert wants one, I mean what are they afraid of?

Well there is fear of psi.

And there is the embarrassment of being wrong. No one likes that.

And there is the painful realization that they wasted so much time barking up the wrong tree. Time that could have been spent strengthening their psychic faculties.

Paradigm shifts aren't easy. I can see why they would grasp at straws to avoid all this. It's disappointing but understandable.

I have heard all the old tired arguments of pseudo skeptics.

Me too. All they have is rhetoric and publicity stunts and rumors of WMDs so to speak, lol.

This shift has to happen slowly or too many people would be driven insane, me thinks.

Or, more insane as the case may be.

Originally posted by Tennessee77
reply to post by BlueMule

 

This is a very interesting idea. By no means is it a new one. this is what some refer to as spirituality, some call it a religious experience.

I'd have to say no and that's not what he was getting at. The problem is that ideas that can even be even slightly construed as relating to something other than what the status quo wants, get outright rejected. As with the experiment where people are asked if they're being looked at, even with the best test conditions, if 75% of subjects reported correctly, fair to say the majority of scientists wouldn't want anything to do with it . And that's not science.

I thought Hancocks talk was excellent. More philosophical than anything else though. I also think ayahuasca could cure much of the sicknesss of the world. If ever there was a cure for the materialist illusion, that would be it.
Even as the rainforest is being ravaged the vine of the soul is stretching arcross the world.

reply to post by squiz

Try reading the book

I'm really not that interested. Like I said, the fight is all on your side.

The evidence is there. Over a 140 years of it.

You know, the world wants to believe. If there really was so much evidence, do you think the opinion of a few scientific materialists could keep down the truth?

The citizenry don't care. They believe, no matter what the professors say.

Yet all that belief hasn't really changed things, has it? All that belief isn't making anything come true. All the hope, all the yearning, all that midnight oil burnt and all those virgins sacrificed, and yet the Big Reveal never seems to come. Wishes still won't father horses.

Where are the Galileos, the Newtons, the Hookes, the Einsteins of transcendent science? Where are their epoch-making discoveries, their revolutionary theories borne out by rigorous, oft-replicated experiment? Where is the truth to stun the naysayers into silence?

Complaining about the inconstancy of the gravitational constant is mere niggling, and nothing to the point.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by squiz

I'm really not that interested.

That says it all, you have never looked and know nothing about it. When did materialism solve the question of consciousness? What material mechanism can create a semiotic system, it's not physics is it? All of the people studing NDE's are united, consciousness continues. Millions of cases, many veridical and documented in medical journals. We have had scientists and nueroscientists accounts as well. The case for PSI is extremely strong as well, great results are still coming out. Even replicated by the skeptics to their dismay. But you wouldn't know because you know how the universe works already, your not interested after all. that's just all woo.

What is ironic is that every post like this, just confirms Ruperts point about dogmatic belief systems. It's not at all about niggly gravity things, it is about the dogmatic view of not just a few materialists but entire culture of it.

When we have great atheists philosophers denouncing materialism, we shoud take note. It is taking time, but a shift is happening no doubt.

Um... who is picking a fight Asty?

Originally posted by Astyanax

If there really was so much evidence, do you think the opinion of a few scientific materialists could keep down the truth?

Yes.

Oh, its not their fault. They aren't necessarily out to suppress the truth. That's just the way the mind works. Even back when everyone lived in traditional societies that didn't have scientific materialists the paranormal was marginalized behind taboo and ritual. Kept at arms length. Even though everyone knew the paranormal power of shamans, the shamans were still on the outskirts of society. Acknowledged and respected and needed but usually kept at a distance. Kept in a semi-permanent state of liminality.

Nowadays, old school rituals and taboos won't cut it. So the defense mechanisms of the mind disenchant the paranormal and push it to arms length with tabloids, debunkers, bureaucracy, and rigid social structure.

The problem is, we don't have mechanisms in place to give the devil his due, so to speak. So we are going crazy. Our societies are long overdue for a large-scale communitas period of liminality and anti-structure, and we don't acknowledge our urban shamans. We don't provide an environment where shamans can undergo their initiatory crisis in safety and with dignity and truth.

We lock them up in insane asylums instead.

As a result we have short-circuited our own evolution.

reply to post by BlueMule


Send them to Peru to meet with mother Aya. That will fix them

reply to post by squiz


But would she receive them?

I'm a member of a Peyote church. Not everyone who approaches is accepted by the Peyote Spirits. There is a certain protection around the Holy ground.

If she wants them she will get them with or without our help. If she doesn't want them there's nothing we can do to persuade them to approach her.