Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan

reply to post by borntowatch

Yeah there are bad Christians but it was protestant teaching that made the US a place to live.
Wait till the US turns completely to crap and watch how many people turn back to God and the protestant faith.

America is losing their religion and losing their country more like it.

Did you read the article? The Puritans didn't do such great things. They are the reason for much of the dis-ease in America. I started another thread this morning about Jamie Dimon's much-anticipated fall from grace.
Puritan ethics fed his evil deeds and greed, too.

Perhaps you might think it through and do some studying. The Puritans were outcasts and fanatics. Yeah, gee, thanks, Pilgrims.
The US has been turning to crap for a while now, thanks to Protestant ethics and Puritanical zeal.

The founding fathers were FAR from being Puritans.
You should ask some of the displaced diaspora of original American tribes - who were shoved off their own land and slaughtered - how they feel about the "Puritans" and America as a "beacon of hope."

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

No, actually, I don't think there is an attentive Heaven.
Nope.

If there was, these sick things wouldn't be happening - again, God is not a person. We must save ourselves from complete annihilation, and step one is STAMPING OUT fundamentalists, whether Islamist extremists or Bible-thumpers. Equally bad. Doing damage in their own way.

Maybe the thumpers aren't igniting car bombs or themselves, but they are doing damage. A more insidious kind.

By stamping out do you mean by violent means? Let's get to brass tacks and I am calling you out. Do you wish to KILL off all religious peoples? Do you wish to Kill Christians. I do not want an excuse I want a simple YES or NO!

reply to post by heyitsok

What is that supposed to mean?
I'm not an atheist, pal. I'm also not congratulating myself. I'm pointing out what fundamentalists are capable of - ruining lives, spreading lies and hatred, and corrupting other countries with their sick beliefs.

reply to post by abeverage


No. I don't want to KILL anyone - I want to shut them up, educate them, and make it criminal, like any other form of hate crime. Stamping out a dangerous way of thinking and imposition of it on others is not the same as killing people. They are the ones killing people.

Sweet Jesus!
You dont see that the way of life in the world is total exploitation?
What the hell OP?
Its fact...the world has revolved around exploitation of weaker, more ignorant peoples for thousands of years now...Whats new?
As you claim to be a deist of some description......can you not see that this is the ESSENCE of the WHOLE...?
The excuses are many and varied....from 9/11 to "white mans burden" to the various messages of all the missionaries.....(The Catholics are masters at this....but rate no mention?)
What you decribe is more like the human condition i think....
.

reply to post by stirling

Of course I see it!
That doesn't make it right!!

The article is addressing fundamentalist and Protestants, not Catholics or the RCC, therefore I didn't "mention them." If you want my views on the RCC, feel free to peruse my post history. PEOPLE are responsible for how they treat each other. It's the human condition, yes, but that doesn't mean we can't rise above it with solidarity against oppression.

reply to post by wildtimes

No, actually, I don't think there is an attentive Heaven. Nope. If there was, these sick things wouldn't be happening

well i would differ. Its actually an atheistic thinking.

We must save ourselves
from complete annihilation, and step
one is STAMPING OUT fundamentalists,
whether Islamist extremists or Bible- thumpers. Equally bad. Doing damage
in their own way.

Stamping out with use of violence?? Or education?

reply to post by logical7


No, it's not an atheist thinking. It's depersonalization of "God" - because God is not a person in a heaven listening to prayers. We've been over that before.

Stamping it out by education, of course! Or criminalizing and PROSECUTING evangleism, like we've done with hate crimes. It's a human rights issue, in my mind. The world is connected enough that people can seek out churches if that's what they want to do after learning or hearing about them. But proselytizing and getting pushy is unnecessary and dangerous.

(EDIT woops, no...sorry I misquoted abeverage. It was stirling who mentioned it.)
He made a post mentioning the Catholic church. As I was doing chores, I was thinking about the Jesuit Missionaries who did their thing in the Spanish colonies - that, also, was wrong. People must be allowed to grow their societies without coercion or threats of things that can't be proven (like hell and a personified "God") from outsiders.

It's a power-move, and exploitation, and I'm reminded of the Holnists in Kevin Costner's film "The Postman."

Originally posted by wildtimes
(EDIT woops, no...sorry I misquoted abeverage. It was stirling who mentioned it.)
He made a post mentioning the Catholic church. As I was doing chores, I was thinking about the Jesuit Missionaries who did their thing in the Spanish colonies - that, also, was wrong. People must be allowed to grow their societies without coercion or threats of things that can't be proven (like hell and a personified "God") from outsiders.

It's a power-move, and exploitation, and I'm reminded of the Holnists in Kevin Costner's film "The Postman."

edit on 20-3-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I'm confused... Isn't it just as impossible for you to prove a "non-personified" god as it is for us bible-thumpers to prove a personified one?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by abeverage

 

No. I don't want to KILL anyone - I want to shut them up, educate them, and make it criminal, like any other form of hate crime. Stamping out a dangerous way of thinking and imposition of it on others is not the same as killing people. They are the ones killing people.

So basically you think that the Drug Lord thugs and pseudo wannabe dictators currently raping, killing and maiming Women and Children in most under developed countries are better than the religious missionaries? Those same missionaries who bring water, set up infrastructure and power that those tyrants typically destroy to keep the people tamed.

Look I am not religious nor am I part of any church but I have friends who have been missionaries and they have told me of the atrocities committed by these idiots to their own people! If anything the missionaries have been beneficial!

reply to post by micmerci


Yes, it is. I was only pointing out that the entire subject of "God" is just that - subjective. Being subjected to the railings of Bible-thumpers is accepting pollution of the organic mind. Imposing one's beliefs on another is disrespectful and wrong. Those people don't belong in foreign countries messing with the minds of still-developing societies (ours is 'still developing', too, and always will be) with cultures of their own.

reply to post by wildtimes

No, it's not an atheist thinking. It's depersonalization of "God" - because God is not a person in a heaven listening to prayers. We've been over that before.

it is atheist like thinking "if there was God then bad things would not happen."
praying is at least beneficial psychologically from human side. If God listens or not can't be proved. God is sure not a person.
One of my favourite arguements about God not seeing or hearing is,
"The Creator of sight and hearing can't See and Hear?"!!

Stamping it out by education, of
course! Or criminalizing and
PROSECUTING evangleism, like we've
done with hate crimes. It's a human
rights issue, in my mind. The world is
connected enough that people can seek out churches if that's what they
want to do after learning or hearing
about them. But proselytizing and
getting pushy is unnecessary and
dangerous.

yes, being pushy is bad and annoying.
However criminalizing it is in some way affecting freedom of religion. That appears extremist!

reply to post by abeverage

Did you read the article?
It isn't saying that ALL missionaries do this. It's talking about the extremists - and the mega-churches and religious-right, formerly known as "The Moral Majority".

I don't see any difference between them and the Waco Texas thing, or the other cults that abduct and poison people. Do you remember the Jim-whatshisname group who all committed suicide waiting for aliens and the rapture?

It's craziness.

reply to post by abeverage

Look I am not religious nor am I part of any church but I have friends who have been missionaries and they have told me of the atrocities committed by these idiots to their own people! If anything the missionaries have been beneficial!

So is the Peace Corps, and Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch.
They do all those things, too. Without shoving God down anyone's throat or threatening them with an ancient dogma of "burning in hell."

Sarah McLachlan, for example, has personally seen to the building of wells, for example, and many other contributions to developing countries - livestock for small farmers, clinics for villages, schools and books, etc...
with NO ulterior motives or preaching.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by abeverage

 

Did you read the article?
It isn't saying that ALL missionaries do this. It's talking about the extremists - and the mega-churches and religious-right, formerly known as "The Moral Majority".

I don't see any difference between them and the Waco Texas thing, or the other cults that abduct and poison people. Do you remember the Jim-whatshisname group who all committed suicide waiting for aliens and the rapture?

It's craziness.

I agree with you but the way you started your intro sounded like a slash and burn leave nothing behind! I would like to remind you that although they are there they are funded here as there is no money there. And I did just finish the article and in the case of the Moral majority they are trading one thug for another...

If more "Christians" woke up to what their church is doing this would not even be an issues, but a get rid of all religions scorched earth policy is not the answer.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Sarah McLachlan, for example, has personally seen to the building of wells, for example, and many other contributions to developing countries - livestock for small farmers, clinics for villages, schools and books, etc...
with NO ulterior motives or preaching.

And as for Sarah I am sure she has no publicity motives to this as do most celebs...

reply to post by abeverage


Sorry if you felt it was slash-and-burn thinking. I opened the post with the article's headline and intro - and yes, it was harsh.

Most of "my" points were describing the article's details without posting the whole thing.
But I did ask this:

Do the fundie congregation members know that their "tithes" are being used in this way - and do they approve??!!

reply to post by abeverage


Sarah is a paradigm of grace and good works.
She made a video of herself sitting in a plain chair, barefoot with a guitar, and sang one of her best songs, with overlays showing what she did with the $150,000 required to make a music video - rather than pocketing the money, or paying the production crews, etc. - she sent the money to the needy, for things they needed. (I'll see if I can find it again - I've posted it before some time ago)

Good on her, I say. She's one of my heroes.

Jesus was a high priest of Moloch.

Moloch is sustained by the power released by burning people alive

just wanted to clear that up.
other than that, i like your OP.
carry on.

I think what they're doing is disgusting. I would argue that they're trying to keep parts of the world in the dark ages. But im not surprised by the "news" Religion requires people to follow a leader blindly and that's all any of them want.

The point of banning contraception is to increase your followers, i would argue that these fundies are preparing to set up shop in places like africa until the west is needy enough to embrace religious dogma once again.

Perhaps as more and more people gain access to higher education in these developing countries, they will once again loose their grip on peoples minds. We can only hope.