Is the theory of evolution responsible for a toxic society?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I am astounded that people make the leap from microevolution to macroevolution.

Preposterous reasoning, and a show of ignorance to actual 'scientific' method.

Then you must disagree with the mathematic formula of 1+1=2

Micro + micro = Macro

Small + small = Bigger

Micro + Micro = 2 X Micro

Small + Small = 2 X Small

You should know that you can only add like terms when doing your algebra.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I am not here to prove my belief in God. It is a belief.

I am here to prove that evolutionist's also have a religious belief that requires faith. They have been preaching this religion in our public schools at taxpayers expense for decades.

I am also here to expose that this philosophy is harmful to themselves and others.

Well you have a long ways to go. The only thing you have proven so far has been that you know how to construct a strawman argument and that you will dismiss history to suit your agenda.

The fact that you dismiss history in the way you have has proven to me that you are less than honest and shouldn’t be trusted.

You believe all that Hitler says and you take his word for it despite his murderous heart. I probably should not trust you either.


Hitler cliams to be a christian and yet...

Mark 12:31-32

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


I guess he failed to read this part of the good book?

I guess the priests who have molested children have forgotten to read the book as well.

whoaaaa there ATS!!!

The first many responses on page 1 are horrible!!!!

Everyone jumping on the OP and nobody until towards the end of page 1 does anyone start correcting him.
Ridiculous!

I want to say something else but I won't.
Disgusting though

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I am not here to prove my belief in God. It is a belief.

I am here to prove that evolutionist's also have a religious belief that requires faith. They have been preaching this religion in our public schools at taxpayers expense for decades.

I am also here to expose that this philosophy is harmful to themselves and others.

Well you have a long ways to go. The only thing you have proven so far has been that you know how to construct a strawman argument and that you will dismiss history to suit your agenda.

The fact that you dismiss history in the way you have has proven to me that you are less than honest and shouldn’t be trusted.

You believe all that Hitler says and you take his word for it despite his murderous heart. I probably should not trust you either.


Hitler cliams to be a christian and yet...

Mark 12:31-32

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


I guess he failed to read this part of the good book?

I guess the priests who have molested children have forgotten to read the book as well.

You got it.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


Let me finish that for you.

Micro + Micro = 2 X Micro = Macro

Small + Small = 2 X Small = bigger

1 + 1 = 2 X 1 = 2

Some more about Hitler

Hitler emphasized that he attached the greatest importance to cooperation with the Catholic church and spoke of himself as a Catholic:
I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant. It is not a party book. It is not written by him as a member of the party. The Protestants can settle matters with him.
My desire is that no confessional conflict arise. I must act correctly to both confessions. I will not tolerate a Kulturkampf.... I stand by my word. I will protect the rights and freedom of the church and will not permit them to be touched. You need have no apprehensions concerning the freedom of the church.


-Hitler [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]
t

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


I'll stick to Evolution, and avoid The BB Theory and Abiogenesis, as Evolution was the original premise of the OP. If we "roll it all together in one package", it becomes easy to get confused.

If we roll all religion together to show how ridiculous it is, including the Flying Purple Spaghetti Monster In the Sky, you get arguments like "God isn't rue, because the bible states "We were created in God's image", yet we don't look like piles of spaghetti, ergo all religion must be wrong.

This is picking unrelated details from different paths of logic based on arbitrary relationships, and drawing generalised facetious conclusions.

Do you see the issue with "rolling it all together"?

To the point of Macroevolution vs Microevolution... the fact is they are the same thing. If you accept Micro, then by default you accept Macro, it is merely a matter of scale.

The distinction was developed on the creationist side of the argument, and you will only find the distinction within creationist literature. If you read peer reviewed papers from either side, as well as unbiased papers on the subject, you will never find the micro/macro distinction made as it is a logical fallacy. In other words, it is only ever used as a linguistic tool to describe varying scale, not for describing different theories.

An excellent visual analogy for this is:
From: www.thinkatheist.com...

If you insist on trying to make the distinction, then you will find multiple examples and experiments where "macroevolution" has been observed in recent years. Both in the lab, and in experiments that have been continuing for over a century.

Here's just one example:
Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli

An idea or fact by itself can't be toxic, it is only the context or use of that information that can have toxic results.

Two people loving each other may not seem toxic at first... but if one of those two is already married, then it is easy to see how a non toxic idea can lead to a toxic situation... especially when taken out of context.

To me lies and misrepresentation are toxic, researchers are searching for the facts, and currently Common Descent is the best model to explain the known facts. If new information is presented that changes this view (even to "God did it"), then science will adapt accordingly, and a new theory will rise to replace Evolution.

That seems to me to be in no way toxic... it's the great thing about logical thinking and science.

The ideal of the scientific method is to study, experiment and search for truth... then re-evaluate that truth in terms of new information in a constantly progressing system... which is our universe.

Cheers

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Are you saying you need a Bible to stop you from murdering? If the only thing standing between you murdering me is a passage in a book, let's just say I'm glad to not be in your presence.

Society relies on a moral code to function. The authors of the Bible derived their moralities from the society of the time. They didn't create them out of thin air. Look how irrelevant most of the Biblical moralities are. All one has to do is read Plato, Aristotle, Confucius, etc. to know there was morality before the world wide domination of the Abrahamic God.


We don't kill each other simply because we don't want the same to happen to us, not because we were ordered not to.

The Biblical moralities mean nothing, especially when only a few of them are taken seriously.

I don't care if you use the Bible (like I did for example) or if you use any of the other religions that have existed throughout time. The point I was trying to make and perhaps I didn't express myself properly is that the belief in something larger than yourself that created you or expects you to explain yourself unless you wish to face the consequences has shaped society's moral laws and how we treat each other. Use the eastern religions' use of Karma or the ancient religions that predate Christianity or Judaism. Doesn't matter whether you consider them real or just creative story telling, they lay down social and moral laws for the society to follow.

If society was taught from the very beginning of civilization that we were merely slightly more advanced monkeys that had been bacteria that came to life because of cosmic coincedence would we still have selected the moral laws our societies on the planet follow now? It's easy to say "oh of course we would, just look all the different cultures follow the same structure of non-murder and other moral laws, etc", but according to conventional science we all came out of Africa and since the primative people have had religion since the dawn of time the morals have traveled with us as we have evolved and spread. Some names change, sometimes the stories, but there are lots of similiarities between the religions.

Originally posted by redoubt


Well, it does stand to reason that beyond pure science, dismissing creation and therefore also, dismissing God (any, your choice) has its perks, not the least of which is the stripping of any responsibility higher than to oneself or to humanity.

The most common example we see each and everyday is how people have simply become mean. There are shootings, stabbings and other forms of murder. There are rapes, assaults, arson and various other forms of violence. This kind of behavior has grown proportionately along with society becoming more secular. We don't raise our children to fear God or any particular set of rules. They grow up in cold daycare centers and instead of playing outdoors... they learn how to interact with real people via bloody video games and unhinged social networking.

We are descended from monkeys. There is no god therefore, no one who oversees your every action... even when mommy or daddy are actually home to play parent. No ultimate price to pay for anything. You can do as you please and if you can dodge your absentee parents and the law, you can run amok in this existence. The human animal defeats the human spirit because the animal and its mortal, physical existence is given top shelf to satisfy its most base desires.

Personally, I belief that God... however he/she exists in whatever form, created human kind through manipulation of DNA and by installing an eternal spirit that connects to another plane of existence. This life is meant to be spent living and then learning so when its short path comes to an end, that spirit is ready to move on... is capable and worthy of the next level.

But... somewhere along the way, another force came into play and its entire purpose is to derail this experiment by corrupting the subject matter and causing the final moments to end in failure. Mankind will never be allowed to evolve naturally into a single body as intended. It will be forced into it prematurely and in its primitive, unready state combined with a godless reference point to use for the lost moral compass, will end up cooking in the fires of its own making.

Evolution is indeed a reality. We just don't grasp the path that we were intended to follow... and are instead on a dead end road.

Okay... sorry for the ear cooking. I'm done. Best

Excellent post Redoubt!

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Some more about Hitler

Hitler emphasized that he attached the greatest importance to cooperation with the Catholic church and spoke of himself as a Catholic:
I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant. It is not a party book. It is not written by him as a member of the party. The Protestants can settle matters with him.
My desire is that no confessional conflict arise. I must act correctly to both confessions. I will not tolerate a Kulturkampf.... I stand by my word. I will protect the rights and freedom of the church and will not permit them to be touched. You need have no apprehensions concerning the freedom of the church.


-Hitler [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]
t

Hitler's connection to the Catholic church further illustrates the role of the Catholic church in endtime prophecy and it is anything but healthy.

The Catholic church forbids it's priests to marry and yet...

1Timothy4:3

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

The catholic church is in direct opposition to the bible when they forbid their priests to marry. The priests then do all sorts of heinous acts with little boys and girls.


If Hitler was influenced by the bible then I would like to see the copy of the bible that he was reading. The other alternative is that he deliberately disobeyed most of the commands within the bible. I lean towards the latter.

Listen not to what they say but rather watch what they do.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

I'm not really sure what you're saying here, but it was delivered in an incredibly sarcastic way, so I'ma go with "sarcastic"

I am astounded that people make the leap from microevolution to macroevolution.

WHHahahaat??!!
What are you talking about? Science does not say that animals magically changed into entirely different creatures spontaneously!

the answer is no....the corruption, lack of empathy, and desire for control by the wealthy, is what is responsible for our toxic society.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Some more about Hitler

Hitler emphasized that he attached the greatest importance to cooperation with the Catholic church and spoke of himself as a Catholic:
I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant. It is not a party book. It is not written by him as a member of the party. The Protestants can settle matters with him.
My desire is that no confessional conflict arise. I must act correctly to both confessions. I will not tolerate a Kulturkampf.... I stand by my word. I will protect the rights and freedom of the church and will not permit them to be touched. You need have no apprehensions concerning the freedom of the church.


-Hitler [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]
t

Hitler's connection to the Catholic church further illustrates the role of the Catholic church in endtime prophecy and it is anything but healthy.

The Catholic church forbids it's priests to marry and yet...

1Timothy4:3

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

The catholic church is in direct opposition to the bible when they forbid their priests to marry. The priests then do all sorts of heinous acts with little boys and girls.


If Hitler was influenced by the bible then I would like to see the copy of the bible that he was reading. The other alternative is that he deliberately disobeyed most of the commands within the bible. I lean towards the latter.

Listen not to what they say but rather watch what they do.

Well if you had looked at the link I provided or had you even read what I posted you would have found your answer as to what he read.

Fail on your part.

Also I am observing your actions so should I assume that you are not a Christian? You have been less than truthful here so are you not a Christian?

Strawman arguments and your dismissal of history have been less than Christian like.

Originally posted by puzzlesphere
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

To the point of Macroevolution vs Microevolution... the fact is they are the same thing. If you accept Micro, then by default you accept Macro, it is merely a matter of scale.

This is precisely why we have fairy tales taught in our textbooks.

You assume that Macroevolution is possible because you can observe microevolution.

Changing the i for an a is simple. Changing from a bacteria to all the kinds of animals we have today no matter how much time you give it is an impossibility. You could give yourself 1000 quadrillion years and we would still have bacteria (or the end of the universe as we know it). This ignores the biggest problem of all, having the bacteria to begin with (abiogenesis).

Keep telling yourself that macroevolution is not much different than microevolution... it's just a matter of scale, but don't present it as science because it is a religious belief.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I'm not really sure what you're saying here, but it was delivered in an incredibly sarcastic way, so I'ma go with "sarcastic"

I am astounded that people make the leap from microevolution to macroevolution.

WHHahahaat??!!
What are you talking about? Science does not say that animals magically changed into entirely different creatures spontaneously!

It teaches that we have macro levels of change and this has never been proven and never will be.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Some more about Hitler

Hitler emphasized that he attached the greatest importance to cooperation with the Catholic church and spoke of himself as a Catholic:
I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant. It is not a party book. It is not written by him as a member of the party. The Protestants can settle matters with him.
My desire is that no confessional conflict arise. I must act correctly to both confessions. I will not tolerate a Kulturkampf.... I stand by my word. I will protect the rights and freedom of the church and will not permit them to be touched. You need have no apprehensions concerning the freedom of the church.


-Hitler [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]
t

Hitler's connection to the Catholic church further illustrates the role of the Catholic church in endtime prophecy and it is anything but healthy.

The Catholic church forbids it's priests to marry and yet...

1Timothy4:3

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

The catholic church is in direct opposition to the bible when they forbid their priests to marry. The priests then do all sorts of heinous acts with little boys and girls.


If Hitler was influenced by the bible then I would like to see the copy of the bible that he was reading. The other alternative is that he deliberately disobeyed most of the commands within the bible. I lean towards the latter.

Listen not to what they say but rather watch what they do.

Well if you had looked at the link I provided or had you even read what I posted you would have found your answer as to what he read.

Fail on your part.

Also I am observing your actions so should I assume that you are not a Christian? You have been less than truthful here so are you not a Christian?

Strawman arguments and your dismissal of history have been less than Christian like.

Lol.

Who is producing the strawman argument?

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

don't present it as science because it is a religious belief.

Dude.
*private facepalm*
Seriously? Wow. Yeah, I should probably log off now, I'm going astray with wanting to say what I really think.
I'm out. 'Night, guys and gals.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob
It teaches that we have macro levels of change and this has never been proven and never will be.

Right. So all those transitional fossils out there don't exist all of a sudden? OP, please do some research on this. The truth is indeed out there and it's in the form of a mountain of evidence.

facepalm images should be banned on ATS

reply to post by ModernAcademia

What is your point, please?
You jumped in with vitriol, but haven't shared your reasons why.

Reply to OP's question:
No not evolution, sin is responsible for a toxic society. We are not acting in accordance with how we were designed.