MI6 and CIA were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMD

Saddam was thrown under the bus by those in bed with our corrupt shadow government ~

He was another "boogie man" a scapegoat used to wage the agenda, we can argue about what what a horrible human being he was. Saddam gassed his own people, yet Obama has had Americans executed without due process and has been given accolades for it. Saddam was a sacrificial lamb, fed to the lions to appease an even greater evil, the great lie.


I will just leave this here

reply to post by neo96


OK, The TIME LINE is omitted. The U.S. administration gave the anthrax seed and chemical weapons to Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war. Largely to offset the larger, better equipped Iranians.

That is what I was referring to. Subsequent supplies isn't germane to my point. That being we knew he had em. Why would we believe he still didn't???

That's not "crap". Others giving/selling more to him is not relevant,IMO.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


What did he off the Kurds with bad breath? Of course he HAD them we gave them to him genius.

reply to post by PW229


it would be a dream for many to see them face the war crimes they are all guilty of ! however we would be living in a fantasy land if it ever happened !

You'd think there were enough of us who are still against the war industry and the crimes they committed against humanity that we would be able to right a wrong and see them tried for their crimes

but sadly we dont live in a world where justice prevails !

reply to post by neo96

That isn't true I said the only way anyone knows anything about Iraqs wmds is because the Us invaded something they would not have known otherwise.

Yes, and as I pointed out you seem unwilling to apply the same standards to Syria as you would to Iraq.

You felt the invasion of Iraq was the only way to make sure of any WMDs. None of any substance were found, yet you argue they were moved into Syria. However you don't advocate invading Syria the same as Iraq.

Therefore how can you be sure the WMDs are in Syria, if they only way to be sure is, as you yourself pointed out, is to have boots on the ground?

If you don't condone military action against Syria then surely you can't be too concerned about these alleged WMDs in the first place. If they were really that threatening and important surely you would call for going into Syria to retrieve them.

reply to post by neo96

Yeah "sponsors" of terrorists who "hate" Amerika and have the ability to manufacture wmds has nothing to do with "terrorism". Iraq who was mentioned in that speech, as was Iran as with North Korea

Again - what are you talking about?

This thread isn't about terrorism, just in case you were unaware.

I fail to see the relevance of your statement.

reply to post by PatriotGames2
Well.... Talk about losing track of time. That was a very interesting but worthwhile 5 hours of reading. Now, I'll pay for this tonight in classes...but it was worth it. That was probably the most informative material I've yet read on the state of chemical, bio and nuclear in Iraq during and prior to the 1991 war.

Couple points... As much as the Chairman of the committee tried...and he tried many times with every one of the witnesses. He was told, by each, there was no use of biological weapons or chemical weapons in or around Iraq, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. No confirmation or evidence has ever, at any point, according to each of those witnesses, existed that there was any used.

The entire hearing is about working funding for Gulf War syndrome and the whole point of the process is to connect biological weapons to the illness. In fact, the chairman says it himself in 3 different places. It's a bit disingenuous. Actually, the guy's a flat out jerk. He went off into tangents of hypotheticals several times, trying to draw an answer he liked THAT way and still..got told no. None were used. False alarms happened...and the points that no one died make a pretty compelling argument I've heard from day 1. Pretty crappy chemical weapons when it takes until after the war to even notice.

They DID FIND Chemical weapons in 1991...and multiple studies, which openly seemed to anger the committee at some points, concluded the maximum dispersal was 10-12 kilometers downwind. Nothing more. That's IF anything got out...and no local civilian impact was ever seen around locations, despite their looking hard for it. That, also according to testimony. That doesn't fit with thousands of ill among our troops, much further away..as he's so badly hunting to establish here.

Researchers Narrow Gulf War Syndrome causes

That's 15 years later and nerve gas exposure (or pesticide...which, oddly, comes up in 5 different documents I've read on this tonight....just what the hell was the DOD using pesticide over troop positions for?! That bad a bug problem?) is still only 1 of three possible causes they cite. Other material, including areas of the 1994 report being cited here ..also show Depleted Uranium and the injections given to troops in that conflict as part of the possible causes...


Now...The one witness with expertise to know, out of CIA as it happens, noted the fact that a great deal of Saddam's stuff was coming out of Europe, not the United States. Specifically Germany. That would be Dr Oehler's testimony and it was some of the more detailed and informative. Even there though, it's precursor basics and equipment. As noted by the witnesses, Iraq had a very robust and strong production program without outside help before the 1991 war.

The last point I come away with and this is just infuriating because it was over and over and over again by this guy (Riegle), he mixes the words chemical with biological as if the two are interchangeable or even similar. It's just done too many times with the different people testifying to be remotely accidental. Is Sarin similar to a nuclear weapon? Well.. Bio has nothing to do with chemical except to be another weapon of mass destruction. Yet, he literally interchanges the terms in what I'd say was a deliberate attempt to trip a couple of them up into saying something they hadn't meant to say ..after saying more than once, what he was after flat wasn't there to find. (Wide spread release of anything).

Bottom line though? The *ONLY* one claiming the US supplied NBC weapons of ANY kind to Iraq IS the Chairman himself. No witness will confirm it and says 100% the opposite when pinned down...each time. Even the talk about material sent from U.S. companies under much looser laws in the 80's is of dual-use (Iraq really is a BIG country that does more than make bombs...they were then too) or precursor nature.

The US flat doesn't send WEAPONS to other nations from the NBC category. It's not just against about a dozen treaties but it's outright, totally and patently insane. Iran HAD been a CLOSE ally less than 10 years before Riegle suggests all this would have happened .....and we'd be trusting the next one in line, no better in reality, MORE than our own NATO allies? Oh..

Doesn't sound right and never has. The testimony there agrees.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


inetersting stuff ,

it would be interesting then to further investigate where this gulf war syndrome actually came from ! my bet is the CIA testing some new drug on the troops themselves ! see mkultra and all the other CIA programs which are done in secret !

As most people have said, not a surprise, one can only hope it will lead to hauling Bush and Blair up in court for war crimes, sadly they are too well protected for that to happen.

Fed up of seeing us (the UK) poking our noses into other countries that we end up going in to as a flank for the US.

I think both the UK and the US public are totally fed up of seeing their service people being killed daily in the name of OIL or some other commodity.

Bring the troops home, they have done their bit in a war based on lies.....

I'd also come across this...and debated what to do with it. It's not worth making a thread on at the moment. It works as pretty clear context for this topic though. First...... Saddam was anything but a nice guy. He slaughtered thousands of people with chemical weapons. That's the act of an evil bastard and there is no other way to put it. It's just that simple. The victims were real human beings and they died in some of the harder ways a person ever could. Many, civilians who did nothing more to deserve it than live there.



That comes from a Central Intelligence Report titled "Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs". I read every page of it. It's part of what's taken me over 5 hours now to get through. It's a real crappy thing to read because I know the ending to the story. I know what wasn't found ....as I'm reading the CIA's estimate of what was there and being built just FIVE MONTHS before U.S. troops would be across the border to find next to nothing. There was an artillery shell with Sarin that went off as a roadside bomb at one point ..but didn't even kill anyone. They didn't sound impressed by it.

The discovery of the nerve agent, reported yesterday by a team that has been searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq since shortly after last year's U.S.-led invasion, marked the first time the team has found one of the types of weapons that the Bush administration cited as initial justification for toppling the government of Saddam Hussein.

Kay, the former leader of the Iraq Survey Group, said the shell was likely one of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war. While the Hussein government claimed that all leftover chemical munitions had been destroyed in accordance with U.N. Security Council requirements, it is possible that some were overlooked, hidden or stolen. Before the U.S.-led invasion last year, U.N. weapons inspectors found several empty chemical warheads for rockets and a small number of artillery shells filled with mustard gas.

Source

At the same time, the CIA report has a great deal of data from years back that is easily cross referenced and verifiable with UN team reports and other sources. I suppose that is their stock and trade. Mix lies with truth and it's believed much easier. Their report is so certain in tone.

....and these are the idiots we trust to lead us into the NEXT war with timely accurate information, eh? Swap the name Iraq with Iran? The report could easily be mistaken for some material out right now in places.

Not a big fan of Bush Jr.,I never liked the WMD theory for war. I guess just breaking the CF agreement wasn't a good enough case?
Wondering why this comes out know? Distract from the economy..Benghazi? or what?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
What EXACTLY did the United States GIVE to Iraq anyway?
Is there any intell on that?

A whole lot of dead family members and depleted uranium.

Oh, and freedom too

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

MI6 and CIA were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMD

DUH!

Originally posted by Hopechest
And to be fair here, if anyone needed to be removed it was Saddam and his regime. He had started a war with Iran, he tried to invade Kuwait, he gassed over 5000 of his own people, he was continuing a policy of torture of political enemies...the list is very long of his crimes.

Whether the stated reason was truthful or not is sort of irrelevant. You have to look at what factors are required before the world community should take action to remove someone in power. I agree with taking him out but I think it should of been done in a completely different manner that didn't put the burden of cost on us.

Also, people tend to forget that if two warring nations sign an armistice and one nation fails to live up to that armistice, then it is perfectly lawful and precedented to resume hostilities. OIF has its basis on the Gulf War and the invasion of Kuwait.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


You realize this stuff has a shelf life.. yes?

You also remember the American government claiming Iraq had mobile factories and production centres for biological and chemical agents?.. but later stating they never had anything after all?

First off the Gulf of Tonkin incident has never been resolved one way or the other. In 'Vantage Point' LBJ told of his own personal confusion and was angry that the Navy couldn't keep their story straight. Also, some Naval officers were decommissioned that really had nothing to do with the incident. In Navy speak that usually means that the whole incident was caused in house or in ship and LBJ was left to manage a crisis that he was unprepared to deal with. At the time he was overloaded with many other more personal matters-staying out of prison being one of them-and dealing with an incensed J Edgar Hoover who had seen his outline for the civil rights bill. All his years of dirty political dealing were coming down on him at the very moment this crisis occurred. Hoover had dumptrucks full of dirt on Lyndon. What really happened? Just where were our destroyers? Who shot first? We will most likely never know.
The UN resolution for the invasion of Iraq was based on the failure of Saddam Husein to allow UN inspectors into the Country for inspection of selected sites that may have produced chemical weapons. The overriding reason was a charge of war crimes for the gassing of Kurdish civilians in Halabja in March 1988. The nerve gas agents used a cyanide-based blood toxin had never been used before and was extremely dangerous to all partners in the region who wanted the regime topples at any cost. This is the same toxin developed by the Nazi's for distribution from their V-2 rockets. Despite pleadings from his generals and his personal entourage the Fuhrer refused to use the gas and ordered it's destruction. During the enduring confusion around Berlin at the climax of the war US intelligence was able to remove most of the Nazi's involved in it chemical weapons program along with it's intelligence hierarchy-the biggest prize was wising away from the bunker Gestapo villain Heinrich Mueller-who made a brief appearance in Washington DC in 1957 only to fall off the earth again like Jimmy Hoffa.
The fear from the minutes of the UN discussion was that this very gas-that the Nazi's developed-somehow had made it's way to a madman like Husein.
Although unknown at the time-this nerve gas has came from Iran-in an attempt to take the city and Saddam had then released his mustard gas on the town as well. The Kurds were simply caught up in the circumstances of war and it is now thought that he never intended to murder the towns inhabitants-just as he said at his trial. Still, in the process of defensing himself he inadvertently hung himself as well-admitting to the very crime he was accused of.
The Armed Services Committee report (available to the public) that was given to all members of Congress in closed session is a clear indication that not only confusion reigned but also a guilt ridden report that could very well show that the gas attack that killed so many civilians-and was used on the battlefield by Iran-had come from the only source that had it-American intelligence.
As one might expect all of America allies in the region were incensed in the extreme at this disclose and demanded the regime be obliterated. After reading the report the American Congress had little choice but to approve the invasion-despite trying to save face politically-the rank and file were drawn in just like the Bush administration.
All the hither-tither about Bush this and that lies are just fodder for government dissidents and the political kindergarten that use their own misplaced internet dominated counter-culture as a platform of self indulgence instead of reading the publicly available documents that again show an intelligence gathering agency run amok.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

To this day I bet most americans still think the events of 9-11-2001 were done by islamic terrorists rather than mass murdering, warmongering, insider trading opportunists in washington dc. That fact alone proves why the lies of the second attack on iraq were not only tolerated but also encouraged by the vast american population. In contrast the british and european folks were less naive and knew better..that is why there were 1 million protestors in london and hundreds of thousands in many other european cities. In america not many protestors.







Please mods don't delete this post as off-topic. People need to wake up!

I thought this was common knowledge that Iraq officially denied having WMD's.
Perhaps the timing of this piece from the BBC is meant to damage the labor party?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


All this political turmoil aside, I have spend a good 10min reading all the replies to your post and something very strange yet very calming happened to me. Ironically today after reading yet another post on the insidious levels of corruption and organized war crimes invoked by a government that is supposedly the political leaders of the greatest country in the world, I was not filled with anger and resentment.

Oh no, not today ladies and gentlemen, today I felt a sense of calming security within my very being, hope for great times ahead of us. For you see this is but the passing of greed and ruthless lust for power by a small group of people whom underestimate the "sheepole" they so willingly try to confuse on a daily basis.

Although many of you my still feel defeatist in your endeavors of reaching the people and sparking a sense of self awareness. I implore you, do not loose hope, people are waking up, this is not just a U.S thing, this is monumental, global, inevitable.

This is the age of enlightenment and thus the truth is the lamp that lights the road of darkness we have all been goose-stepped into following. These times are crucial in every matter of our existence, from the food we eat to the books we read.
It is time to look within ourselves, find that essence that bonds our universal definition of humanity.
Every single feeling that we emit can be regressed to two emotions, love and fear.
I don't even feel the need to explain which of these two primary emotions will set us free.
I know in my heart every single one of you brilliant buggers that roam this site sense the very same thing.
Their games of making us hopeless and senseless to their petty full self absorbed agenda's are coming to an brisk end.

This is not about bloodlines, this is about human ties, this is about walking down the street and for the first time to experience a scenery not filled with deprivation and misery.
Argue all you want with my words, with your own conscience, no body likes to see another human being suffer, it's unnatural and against our inherit sense of tribalism and co-operation for survival.

Whether you believe in macro/micro evolution, creation, or something in between, then it should be clearly evident that the way we are living right now is not progression or divine subjection.
When you take away a mans sense of security and basic needs you force him to listen, paradoxically these power hungry tyrants are helping us awake with their ever so more blatant and sinister objectives.

We are all different and unique, there is no impermeable line between our worth and each persons experience on this planet is as unique and as special as the person opposite to them. Sending my unconditional love and appreciation to all the people on this thread for contributing towards truth and justice.