Deepening Financial Crisis - Your Savings As Seizable Government Reserve

reply to post by gunshooter


Ignorance usually does.

Why are people acting shocked? This was coming for a long time. In the US its been happening for the past 4 to 5 years though not as overtly as the EU Cyprus scam. In the US real inflation has been running at least 10%, that inflation is due to monetizing the debt, bailouts and the money printing presses at the fed running red hot. That 10% inflation represent a devaluation of currency, or an indirect tax on all savings. a tax on all saving except for those banksters who are receiving the bailouts. I read some where that 70% of JP Morgan profits last year is federal reserve handout money.

How did we get to this point?
The real problem lies with the derivatives. Derivatives and other financial instruments that can be booked as profit under mark to market are really nothing more that semi-privatized semi-legal counterfeiting of currency. The derivatives market is said to be around a quadrillion dollars. That is a huge currency bubble and a reason why the federal reserve stopped reporting M3 currency. Here is how this derivatives scam works, If you and I were banks, and we made a bet on anything, before the event occurred we would both declare ourselves to be the winner and book a profit upon signing the document enshrining the bet. For the sake of example lets make it a 100k bet. Since we are banks we could then put that "financial instrument" in our reserves and then borrow 10 times the amount from the federal reserve window. so now we have $1 million each. Then we take that million dollars and give it to our trading desks, and invest it on wall street on a 5% margin, now we have 20 million dollars each. From 100k to 40 million between the two of us in 2 steps. Do you really think we actually care about the derivative instrument? we've made our money and so now to the coup d'gras, we sell the worthless derivative to some crappy retirement plan as AAA. You can do the same with foreclosed homes, there is no incentive for a bank to sell a foreclosed home if they can count it as an asset in their reserves. The problem is that this financial wizardry has distorted the market and the central bankers have been pumping a trillion dollars a year to keep the entire system from collapsing. But the entire system is going to collapse, its inevitable, because those that played the game have been pulling out and putting money into hard assets.

Anyway, the collapse is coming. Pull your money out of the system, pay off your debts or lock in your interest rates. Inflation is going to hit hard and savings will be worthless. Buy poor man's hard assets, stuff that people can use, ammo, a gun, hand tools, hardware even a car. In the old socialist economies that had hyper inflation, the poor man's hedge on inflation was to take the pay check and buy buy building materials and put an addition on their house one stick of lumber at a time.

Cyprus shows that if the government doesn't inflate your money away, then they will just step in an take it away from you with a few computer strokes. This is sign of things to come when paper money is obsoleted and we are forced into a 100% electronic currency. Then it will be "ohhh CEO of goldman sachs needs a platinum plated solid gold toilet seat, OK, just give the savers an electronic haircut. BUZZZZ"

Anyway, taking money out of the system by taxing savings will do nothing but shrink the economy. This is going to shrink the money supply for ordinary people. Our best case scenario vis-a-vis Federal Reserve action was stagflation, but now it looks like the federal reserve was only buying time with QE 1,2,3,infinity so that the global elite could position themselves for a full on depression.

Its too late to be surprised by this act of "socialism." The banksters are not socialists, not by a long shot. Has anyone bothered to notice that ever since the reunification of Germany, that globally, we have been on sliding towards fascism. And now the EU is acting as a proxy for Germany's banksters. If people do not now seriously discuss the demise of the EU, then they had better start making plans for a world without democracies, because the two are wholly incompatible. This collapse should reveal the people behind the curtain and result significant changes unless the collapse is covered up with a catastrophe. I would look for a false flag against the Vatican that will be blamed on Iranian agents, that will mire the entire western world in global holy war and provide a convenient excuse for the financial collapse.

If the bank seize your savings, go to your bank and go away with a couch or a computer. Funny thing is that you would probably get arrested, but they don't.

Good post. Its clear state and federal governments will use all schemes that are supposed to help the population to enrich themselves.

SS is a fraud
State pensions are fraud

Why--because they bundle it all together, make money off it, force you to contribute, then later on let you know you won't get anything near what you put in unless you make to age 97.

Where's all the Euros laughing at the U.S. now??

Even the National Socialists didn't go this far in Germany, at least this fast...

It is now beyond debate. Socialists, under the guise of compassion are, in fact fascists. PERIOD.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
An alarm has begun to sound in Europe, an alarm of shock, disbelief, and dismay. For Cyprus to receive a bail out of 10 billion Euros, it has had to accept negotiated consequences of levying a one-off tax against the savings of its people. Rightly, the Cypriot and non-Cypriot people with savings in Cypriot banks are not happy about this, and thus the Cypriot financial system potentially teeters on a financial collapse due to a possible run on Cypriot banks.

A truly relevant situation to look into. It would be of help if you gave some reference of the actual facts in this matter, say a link to the actual text of legislation or proposed legislation, a link to some analysis of the options the Cypriot government had, how they got into the mess, whos pushing for this (and against). I've heard a lot of conjecture online and on the radio. Doomsday is at hand - by left, right, middle; but I still don't understand what it is that's going on.

All I know (from repetition on realable radio sources) is that in order to receive a $10 Billion EU (I'm assuming they spoke in Euros) the Cypriots had to agree to this levy. Any other terms?? How much is the Levy? Where is said Levy going? What are the options. Leaving the EU? That I've heard. How would that be bad? good?

See - I just don't think you've given us enough to even start on. You're just freaking out - like everyone else.

Facts please.

FyreByrd:

I just don't think you've given us enough to even start on. You're just freaking out - like everyone else. Facts please.

What a strange post you make without contributing anything of substance. Are you asking me to convince you of the reality of the financial crisis currently ongoing in Cyprus? Or, are you too lazy to seek the answers to the questions you ask for yourself? Nevertheless, I'll humour you...in a nutshell.

Cyprus joined the European Union in 2004, and joined the euro currency zone in 2008. Cyprus has a history of banking secrecy, which allowed its banks to take in assests (a large proportion of which is Russian money) that swelled their coffers up to 8 times the country's GDP. The Cypriot government couldn't support this, but had to do something with those assests, and so it invested heavily in Greece, whose own financial crash wiped out a lot of the assests the Cypriot government used. Also, the Cypriot banks invested heavily in Cypriot sovereign debt and was thus equally wiped out due to being tied to government debt which went through the roof when Greece crashed.

Cyprus now teeters on bankruptcy, so it has asked for a bailout from the despised 'troika' - European Union (EU), European Central Bank (ECB), and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) - which negotiated a a 10 billion euro bailout for Cyprus under specific conditions as requested by the Germans and the Dutch.

Now, supplying you with the actual text (minutes) of the negotiation settlement is irrelevant, as it has not been made public, afterall the negotiations were behind closed doors. Along with the 10 billion euro bailout, Cyprus had to come up with an extra 7 billion euro, which is where the levy on bank deposits come into the scheme, as the levy was expected to raise 6 billion euro, and the rest from austerity measures.

Quite rightly, Cypriots are enraged by the deal, as it breaks all the protection rules of deposited capital in banks within Europe. All the buffoonery and kack-handed management of the deal has now led to an even greater crisis and a more potentially damaging situation threatening to engulf other European countries. If the Cypriot banks had opened on Tuesday, a run on its banks would most certainly have occurred, potentially sparking a run on banks in other countries. It has also damaged the confidence and trust of the public in banks and the banking system even further, to a point where both confidence and trust no longer exist.

As I write this I learn that the vote to approve the deal in the Cypriot parliament has been taken and has been denied. They have not accepted the deal. Cyprus may probably turn to Russia for aid and help with its crisis?

Again, it is irrelevant whether or not the Russian assests held in Cypriot Banks is actually 'laundered' money. I would suggest that all banks have or do launder money to some extent. A new round of laundering by the HSBC bank is currently hitting the news, this is after being fined nearly $2 billion dollars for laundering in the USA. Cypriot banks grew their coffers under the supervision of the European troika, so some of the blame has to go towards them for a laxity in their regulation.

As for links, just type in 'Cyprus Bailout' in google and you'll have all the links you need to answer the pithy questions you may further ask.

Then again, the point of your post was never about clarification on the Cypriot crisis was it? No. Something in my original post garnered your disdain, and what you are really trying to do is to pour ambiguous scorn into the thread under the guise of seeking further clarification. Such clarification you could easily have found by your own effort. If you are not prepared to do the research yourself, I'm not going to act as your lackey and do it for you.

There are numerous threads on ATS covering the Cypriot Crisis that provide links for you. My original post was such not to add another thread on the crisis, but to offer up an opinion on it. Whether you agree or disagree is not my concern, I really couldn't care less. I just know that your post needlessly pointed towards me specifically with its questions, and I found them quite redundant.

If you genuinely want to know more about the Cypriot Crisis, my advice is...do the research yourself. I did.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
FyreByrd:

I just don't think you've given us enough to even start on. You're just freaking out - like everyone else. Facts please.

What a strange post you make without contributing anything of substance. Are you asking me to convince you of the reality of the financial crisis currently ongoing in Cyprus? Or, are you too lazy to seek the answers to the questions you ask for yourself? Nevertheless, I'll humour you...in a nutshell.

Yes, I guess I am lazy. However, your reply to be was 1) to insult my character and 2) to, again, write a lengthy analysis as fact without any support or references. How am I suppose to judge the validity of your exposition if you don't support it.

I thought the whole point of ATS was to share resources and knowledge with one another - not just give an opinion - but to actually back them up with facts and sound reason.

I'm not discounting your point (was there one?) or opinion or analysis, I'm annoyed at your lack of form. I entered this thread to learn about this subject and learning requires more then one source of information.

First thing my Mother taught me, when I started coming home with all sorts of nonsense from school, was to check my sources.

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
What I found even more appalling when digging into the Cyprus stealing, was that the IMF and Germany's bank (and we know what bloody lovely folks they are) originally wanted to scalp **40%** off the savers.

www.zerohedge.com...

it appears that the settled-upon 9.9% haircut is a 'good deal' compared to the stunning 40% of total deposits that Germany's FinMin Schaeuble and the IMF demanded

Dang. Wonder when it will happen here. Not much in savings for us, but nearly 90k in a Thrift Savings Plan (US gov't employee 401k). I've been trying to convince the significant other to at least "borrow" out half of it. In the mattress, in the safe, in silver, I don't care as long as it's not in someone else's hands!

Thank you for posting a source --- but I question whether or not you read beyond the first couple of paragrphs. In the section about "Controlled Management" they clearly state that this will "3. Total rescusing of deposits, with just the exchange of a small percentage of savings whith shares of the two banks. Currently, these shares do not have their full value, but with the economic recovery they will repay most if not all of the amount that will be cut" Meaning in exchage for 9.9% of their savings they will receive shares of the banks which could in time recover (or even increase) the initial capital.

That still isn't great but it's not outright theft - though I do believe a referendum should have been held to make the decision.

Another point is of the 8.000 jobs they are 'saving' would be just those jobs that created the problem in the first place - that annoys me.

Now I'm not saying it will work, I think it's just another Capital Grab but it could. Personally I think that all debt should be forgiven and everybody (including businesses) should start over with public/national/state/regional Banks or Credit Uniion as a public resource not a profit center - but I'm crazy.

If the world wide Banking system starts to fail, will the U.N decide ,to start stealing from every countries Bank Accounts, to take up the slack ? if you have no money in your Bank ,take a cash advance on your Credit Card that YOU will have to pay back ! World wide Socialism at work ,to support our Banking Masters ,Lords and Graven Images

Fiat money went poof.

This is a slave state without individual control over money. Just take your citizens, tip them upside down until the pennies fall out, take the cash, and throw the individuals into a heap because they don't matter? Now look, what sort of nation is it where the money survives but the people don't? That's not a nation, that's a plantation. That is a slave farm. That's what the human traffickers do to their human cargo. It's robbery.

If Cyprus does something nasty to the bankers, I'll cover my eyes. Thankfully it's not a perspective about the money but the principle of ownership this time.

It's actually healthy in the bigger picture to consider banks disposable, not their customers. The customers are the country. The banks are just money machines that obviously failed to function for its users. Frankly I'm surprised the buildings haven't been burned to the ground yet.

People Wonder why they dont want you to have guns ,after they thieve every dollar you ever worked hard for and saved hard for, to have a decent life ,future ,retirement and take care of your family ,and be left with Nothing at all ,so you have No choice but to turn to,and give your allegiance to the NWO in order to barely survive

Just think how much those banks are making in ATM fees! I know where I live they are around 5$ per pop.

reply to post by elysiumfire


S&F finally somebody that has the decency to say it like it is. How long are people going to continue playing this charade of ignorance. The value system has become some sort of sick joke that can be manipulated by banks at any time, forecast are more flawed now that they ever have been. The sad part for me is the fact that people are still debating about a system that is clearly leaving the majority for dead. I cannot think of anything more frustrating than working hard to make provision for the future and then having that taken away to bail out the very people whom stand above. This BS has to come to an end. If we have to go back to trading or more primitive means of economic exchange then so be it. What's the old saying that I use to hear so much as a child? Oh yeah money is the root of all evil, think its starting to prove a damn strong point. Ironically I am no economist but it is clear to be that the system is failing miserably for the majority of hardworking people. When this fallacy crumbles and this system fails It will probably be the ultimate test towards our continued existence.

Good things

FyreByrd:

Yes, I guess I am lazy.

...and...

First thing my Mother taught me, when I started coming home with all sorts of nonsense from school, was to check my sources.

Two statements that do not reconcile with each other. Perhaps it would've helped if you went to a school of no nonsense?

However, your reply to me was 1) to insult my character and 2) to, again, write a lengthy analysis as fact without any support or references.

Have you actually got a character to insult? I do not see it. Nor do I see the insult you claim. I wrote a response that abbreviated the facts as reported by the MSM and other media mediums. I am offering an opinion on a conspiracy forum, not writing for a university degree.You can check the facticity of the information yourself by doing the research. If I am wrong I am here to be corrected, but I will check on the information you supply, and I don't need you to link it, I will ferret it out myself, which is what I believe you should do.

The thread is what it is. It's presence invites others to post their thoughts on the crisis, you have yet to do so. You seem more concerned by your assumption that something cannot be fact unless it can be checked by linked source, as if the link is what makes it factual. Your posts represent nothing more than that of troll.

MountainMeg provided you with a link, and your first response is to question her attention span for reading which I take to be quite a pompous assumption on your part. Who is insulting who?

I am of the opinion that ordinary savers should not have to pay a single penny towards the recovery of the economy out of their personal savings. You might as well suggest that in order to combat famine in Africa, we all give the food in our cupboards, even though western countries destroy mountains of surplus food daily, we could give them that. Not in any way should we prop up the system that caused the crisis in the first place. It is precisely the reason why the crisis is ongoing and why austerity measures have been implemented around the world, banks are trying to save themselves and their industry at the cost of the economies of countries, and are fearmongering dire consequences if they should fall.

The truth is, we should remove the people accountable for the crisis and punish them accordingly, and the government should take full control of the currency and implement the laws that safeguards capital deposits in the banks. By all means tax or take the amount of interest made from the capital deposited, but without incurring a loss to the capital itself. The crisis is a self-inflicted pain by banks upon themselves, and they are expecting (nay demanding) that others share the pain as well. Personally, I say not a chance!

Let them fail, let them fall, and let the consequences be what they are. Remodel the system based on the people owning their own nation's currency, and government managing it, instead of it being owned by private companies. That is how the banking system should be.

I think they owe the people at least a list of large transactions that occurred prior to the effective date. Interesting to see how many of the politicians friends and family had those transactions before stealing the money.

Also note they are not only watching what is occurring in Cyprus but they are also watching how the people around the world also react.

So what were the main warning signals this was about to go down?

How can other Nations learn from this and what to expect?

How are the people who were preppers and or holding guns and metals such as G@S doing compared to those who simply trusted their Governments and banks?

(Sorry I am just coming in to this topic.)

Suppose I set up a new bank. My first customer comes with £100 of his hard-earned money and places it as 'savings for a rainy day'. He's happy, I am ecstatic, because now, under the current banking system model, I now loan £100 out to 9 others (at interest) wanting a quick injection of cash to do things for themselves.

The day after, the original customer comes in and wants to take out the whole of his deposit for some sudden family need. I give it back to him, which now leaves me, as a bank in debt to £900. I never had the reserve to cover such a situation. Based on the original customer's deposit, I fashioned 'out-of-thin-air' £900 and shared it as a loan among 9 others, whom have now spent the money, and I am waiting until they begin their monthly installments to pay the loans back.

Obviously, an over-simplification of the current banking system model being used, but aptly demonstrates the situation of banks right now. They do not have the capital reserve to cover the debt they hold. Bad and greedy banking business strategems have led banks to expand the debt they hold many times greater than the reserve capital they are supposed to hold just in case a run on the bank occurs. They do not have enough 'real' cash to pay back all their customers deposits.

Deregulation of the financial laws in the 80's has led to what we have today, economies groaning and almost collapsing under the weight of debt that banks cannot possibly pay. All they are trying to do is to prop the system up with austerity measures and bailouts using taxpayer money. So, if you are a taxpayer, and you use a bank to store your 'rainy day savings', you are in effect losing out twice. You never had a say in the bailout, and if you wanted to withdraw all your savings at the same time as everyone else, you won't be allowed access.

That's not all, though. The central bank of each country, i.e., the bank that controls the nation's currency, is not owned by the people or controlled by the government...it is a private company. The government on behalf of the people has to pay interest on the people's own currency to this private company. Ever wonder why your nation is in perpetual debt? This is the reason why. Isn't it utterly absurd that nations do not own and control their own currency?

Even before the banking debacle, nations were already in debt to these private buisness banking cartels. Billions in various currencies have been fashioned out of thin air by banks and loaned to people, but it all came crashing down in 2008 with the sub-prime mortgage scandal, and is still trying to recover from it, and it never will. It can't, not until you let it fail and fall and governments take ownership of the nation's currency.

The system has to be remodelled on the principle that the nation owns its own currency, and government controls it, and does not have to pay interest on every note it prints. Banks should only ever be able to deal in real cash terms, and always hold a reserve to cover their entire costs, without incurring penalties upon its customer base.

If this means that governments implement draconian recovery methods upon the financial elite, stripping them of their power and money, I simply do not care. They were the ones that caused and continue to manage this crisis, they are the one's who should lose. Under no circumstance should a private cartel own and control a nation's currency and charge interest on it...that is utterly ridiculous. Successive governments have all been colluding in this like an old boys club looking after each others interest, rather than that of the people and the nation. The future finance of your country is down to how you people react to it all. Do you let it continue, or do you act to seek change?

This is mob country, so the proper response is a large number of hits on the responsible people!

Originally posted by antar
So what were the main warning signals this was about to go down?

How can other Nations learn from this and what to expect?

How are the people who were preppers and or holding guns and metals such as G@S doing compared to those who simply trusted their Governments and banks?

(Sorry I am just coming in to this topic.)

Usually the only warning of something like this is a high ranking politician stating on the record that something like this will not happen. From that point you have roughly 2 weeks if history is anything to go by.

Normally governments confiscate wealth through inflation but this situation is different because the country can't print it's way out, and was forced to do something more draconian.

Every country in the Euro is in the same boat. Every sovereign nation that issues it's own currency is not.

So, if you are thinking of the USA, it is extremely unlikely that a federal order like this will come down.
However, individual states can not print their way out of trouble. They are in the same boat as the countries in the Euro. Don't be surprised if individual states try this sort of thing on as they go to the wall financially.