Atheism vs. God-Belief (the final debate).

reply to post by sacgamer25

Well than let me retreat back to the love that is in me. I do not need your approval nor do I need your confirmation.

You worship a tyrannical myth.

For me I prefer to live a peaceful life away from those who think it ok to impart their will on me, thus removing my right to free will.

So is that it? The most powerful species on earth feels it is too powerful, and so it surrenders its free will?

Again the world you live in is filled with conflict, mine is filled with solutions. The solution is love and as long as you reject the solution you will not find love.
Peace to you

Slavery is a solution?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Your little squabble isn't really in line with the thread I wish you guys would take it somewhere else..

Also, your reply to him was entirely based on assumptions and personal opinion which didn't even address what he was saying. So if you're going to fight then at least be fair and reasonable.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Your little squabble isn't really in line with the thread I wish you guys would take it somewhere else..

Also, your reply to him was entirely based on assumptions which didn't even address what he was saying. So if you're going to fight then at least be fair and reasonable.

Atheism vs God-Belief. What about our discussion doesn't suit your tastes in this topic?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
There are two principal aspects of the argument I'm going to make (when time permits). The first will argue that the manifest reality, including consciousness (as a tangled hierarchy), has arisen as a result of an intelligent subtraction from, the absolute formless potential as a first/last cause or as a downward causation emanating from the Godhead aka Creative Agency, whereby the phenomenon of consciousness is not and cannot simply arise as an epiphenomenon of matter, and the second, to "join the circle" will aim to show a manifest example of superintelligent design embedded by anticipation and with intent, into the geometrical relationships and integers of our own earth-moon-sun system/configuration as a precursor to earth's evolutionary development including that of the human being as self aware observer, and even as a marker or a "sign" or signature intended for our own recognition, by the Creative Agency, but done in such a way that it cannot be dismissed either as pure coincidence or nullified as meaningless by the strong anthropic principal.

Just wanted to offer a head's up, out of fairness, due to the delay.

Best Regards,

NAM

bump for page 9.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Dude...English, please. This is not an essay for Scientific American.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

In case you didn't notice, what we're looking for here is a dialogue, not some sort of us vs. them tit for tat raging debate filled with anger and resentment, unfounded assumptions and personal opinions, and the guy was actually talking about his equanimous love and of love as a unitive principal both in Biblical and extra-Biblical terms.

If you don't have anything of real value to add (see you post top of this page) then why bother spouting statements of anger and personal opinion?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


See my previous post.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It's just an opening statement. If there's a word you don't know look it up.

More will be revealed in time, but try getting out of attack mode in the interim, thanks.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It's just an opening statement. If there's a word you don't know look it up.

My very simple request did not require you to respond like the back end of a donkey. For someone who desires civil conversation, you don't encourage it a whole lot.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You didn't ask a specific question.

I will be (time permitting later on) offering supporting information to help clarify the opening statement, including terminology and concepts.

No need to reply to this post.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I asked you to elaborate on your initial statement. If you don't plan on clarifying, you shouldn't plan on posting.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

What aspect or element of the statement were you wanting more clarification on - so that I can keep that in mind with future posts? Thanks.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

There are two principal aspects of the argument I'm going to make (when time permits). The first will argue that the manifest reality, including consciousness (as a tangled hierarchy), has arisen as a result of an intelligent subtraction from, the absolute formless potential as a first/last cause or as a downward causation emanating from the Godhead aka Creative Agency, whereby the phenomenon of consciousness is not and cannot simply arise as an epiphenomenon of matter, and the second, to "join the circle" will aim to show a manifest example of superintelligent design embedded by anticipation and with intent, into the geometrical relationships and integers of our own earth-moon-sun system/configuration as a precursor to earth's evolutionary development including that of the human being as self aware observer, and even as a marker or a "sign" or signature intended for our own recognition, by the Creative Agency, but done in such a way that it cannot be dismissed either as pure coincidence or nullified as meaningless by the strong anthropic principal.

I want clarification on all of the above quote. Use diagrams and puppet shows if you have to.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I want clarification on all of the above quote. Use diagrams and puppet shows if you have to.

I'll do my best, but it may take some time to put it together.

In the interim..

reply to post by sacgamer25


What about those who are condemned to Hell? Is an eternity in the most horrific place that can be imagined really a fitting punishment for a 100 years of sin? You replied EXACTLY how I thought you would lol. I have nothing whatsoever against those who choose to follow God, but I get so tired of hearing the same things from you guys. Have faith on Earth and you will be rewarded in Heaven. This all part of His plan. He wants to strengthen us with a trial by fire. Think about this, the greatest gift that God gave mankind was free will...to use exactly how he tells us to. If you don't obey you go straight to Hell, do not pass Go do not collect $200. He also knows, before we are even born, exactly what we are going to do because he has a plan for all of us. This is not free will in my opinion.

Good thread . I may not agree with you, but at least you got me thinking .
Thanks for being civil as well, too many people on here want to jump straight into attack mode lol.

Originally posted by CMJ23
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Good thread

. I may not agree with you, but at least you got me thinking

.
Thanks for being civil as well, too many people on here want to jump straight into attack mode lol.

You ain't seen nuth'n yet.

Stay tuned..

Originally posted by bb23108
How can the Unconditional cause any thing?

Not entirely sure precisely how but the unconditioned uncaused cause has in fact done so (caused). Behold! (look around).

It has been said that it was on a whim as in an "oh what the heck", or it could have arisen from a question "what am I?", or, if what I strongly suspect is true (not as a process theology i.e.: for self discovery purposes) and that I aim to show in future posts - with complete prior understanding and awareness (with infinite intelligence) according to a desire to share for the sake of or because of, love.

"Therefore do not be afraid nor let your hearts be troubled, little ones, and be of good cheer, for it pleased the father (first father) to share his kingdom (of life, light and love) with all his children!"

reply to post by CMJ23


There are plenty of people who believe in God, and do not believe that man has a free will.

I have often heard people state as if it is an obvious fact that God created man with a "free will" but I have yet to see anyone show me how this is logically possible, much less obvious or reasonable.

I will concede most certainly that we are not forced via compulsion to "act against our will" in other words we never find ourselves doing something which we have not willed, which we do not desire as if we are a puppet having ones strings pulled. This presents the illusion of a "free will" to many, I however fail to see how any attribute of my very being can be called truly free with respect to one who created every process and initiated every experience that has led me to find myself as I am.

In other words, I rather find that I cannot escape destiny, for whatever I should choose to think, or speak, or do, these initiatives become my destiny. My destiny is shaped as I go on, being what I find myself to be. I am certain however that I cannot change what I am, for any effort to "change" in the future is already a seed taking root in my being even now, it is precisely my very makeup which will move me to evolve/ change for the better or worse in response to my circumstances.

Soul

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by bb23108
How can the Unconditional cause any thing?

Not entirely sure precisely how but the unconditioned uncaused cause has in fact done so (caused). Behold! (look around).

Why do we have to think that the conditional worlds were caused by the Unconditional? Or created by God or some Uncaused cause or a Creative Agency? Obviously, in the waking state we do see what is arising and it appears to be our reality, but is it altogether our Reality? Or is it just apparently real, like in our dream states?

I don't presume God or the Unconditional Indivisible Divine created my dreams - they are simply patterns arising in the subconscious - and when I awaken, they are not considered my reality.

So too with this waking state - it is much like the dream state except that we share our experiences together because we are all dreaming together and mutually supporting this ego principle and its mind-made myths together, and this keeps our fullest recognition of Reality at bay.

When I wake up from dreams, I don't wonder, gosh, who made those dreams, where did they come from, why did God do that, etc. - the dreams are just considered unnecessary figments once awake.

And the same with the waking state - realizers say you do not mull over where did this waking state come from, what's that all about, etc. They simply say, wake up, and those kinds of questions are dissolved because the ego-principle upon which they rest, has been dissolved - just like waking up from dreaming.

So I am looking forward to your presentation as I like to see mysteries of this great realm. Such appearances, especially sacred ones (even though they are still a part of this dream world), can evoke the heart's tacit recognition that all arising is non-separate modifications of Light, and thus further inspire us to wake up.

reply to post by bb23108

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
~ Albert Einstein

Think of it (the everything, including our world) as the infrastructure which makes experience possible.

Also, waking up to the Reality doesn't cause it to disappear.

And after all this time, now that we're here, should our highest goal really be to achieve a state of absolute nothingness? Why can't we just be ourselves as we are?

I've been to the place/state of the unconditioned ground of being. It's very liberating and it's still there.

There shouldn't be a conflict with the material world as the visible manifest reality, and no it doesn't imply that that's the whole of reality, and neither are we or the cosmos just a "thing" but a process and intrinsic to a mysterious creative process.

And me I'm ok if "God" was here first and created me at all levels (whatever that means) within himself as a part of, and if the reason or the motive and catalyst to creation is love, what's wrong with an intimate, participatory "romance" between the beloved and beloved other which keeps love alive?

Instead of an I and a you, how about a thee and a thou?