The 600 year old coin that proves China was trading with East Africa BEFORE Europeans arrived

The 600 year old coin that proves China was trading with East Africa BEFORE Europeans arrived Copper coin, which has a square hole in the center so it could be worn on a belt Was issued by Emperor Yongle of China who reigned from 1403-1425 during the Ming Dynasty By MARK PRIGG PUBLISHED: 10:52 GMT, 14 March 2013 | UPDATED: 15:23 GMT, 14 March 2013 Comments (14) Share Scientists have found a rare, 600-year-old Chinese coin on the Kenyan island of Manda that rewrites the history books on international trading. Researchers say the copper coin, which has a square hole in the center so it could be worn on a belt, proves trade existed between China and eastern Africa decades before European explorers set sail. Scientists say it was issued by Emperor Yongle of China who reigned from 1403-1425 during the Ming Dynasty, and his name is written on the coin. The coin is made of copper and silver and has a square hole in the center so it could be worn on a belt. Scientists say it was issued by Emperor Yongle of China who reigned from 1403-1425 during the Ming Dynasty MAN IN MANDA The island of Manda, off the northern coast of Kenya (marked with a red dot, below),

was home to an advanced civilization from about 200AD to 1430AD, when it was abandoned and never inhabited again. Trade played an important role in the development of Manda, and this coin may show trade’s importance on the island dating back to much earlier than previously thought. A joint expedition of scientists led by Chapurukha Kusimba of The Field Museum and Sloan Williams of the University of Illinois at Chicago found the 600-year-old Chinese coin on the Kenyan island of Manda. Scientists from Kenya, Pennsylvania and Ohio also participated in the expedition. They also found human remains and other artifacts predating the coin. More... The strange phallus-shaped worm which scientists say provides the 'crucial missing link' to marine evolution Is this alien life? Controversial scientists publish second paper claiming they have found 'extra-terrestrial fossils' in meteor fragment Emperor Yongle, who started construction of China’s Forbidden City, was interested in political and trade missions to the lands that ring the Indian Ocean and sent Admiral Zheng He, also known as Cheng Ho, to explore those shores. 'Zheng He was, in many ways, the Christopher Columbus of China,' said Dr. Kusimba, Curator of African Anthropology at The Field Museum. 'It’s wonderful to have a coin that may ultimately prove he came to Kenya,' he added. 'This finding is significant. 'We know Africa has always been connected to the rest of the world, but this coin opens a discussion about the relationship between China and Indian Ocean nations.' That relationship stopped soon after Emperor Yongle’s death when later Chinese rulers banned foreign expeditions, allowing European explorers to dominate the Age of Discovery and expand their countries’ empires, the researchers say. The Portuguese were the first Europeans to explore the region of current-day Kenya, Vasco da Gama having visited Mombasa in 1498. The coast of East Africa was a valuable foothold in the eastern trade routes, and Mombasa was a key port for ivory. Modern European exploration of Kenya wasn’t initiated until 1844 when two German missionaries, Johan Ludwig Krapf and Joahnnes Rebmann ventured into the interior from Mombasa in an attempt to introduce Christianity. Manda in Kenya, now a popular holiday destination, was home to an advanced civilization from about 200AD to 1430AD, when it was abandoned and never inhabited again

The island of Manda, off the northern coast of Kenya, was home to an advanced civilization from about 200AD to 1430AD, when it was abandoned and never inhabited again. Trade played an important role in the development of Manda, and this coin may show trade’s importance on the island dating back to much earlier than previously thought.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...
Will start a thread I have on file on ancient African traders in Asia this is also somewhat related to the Lost Cities And Architecture Of Pre-Colonial Africa
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Go here..^

I had always thought that this was common knowledge.

I think "proves" in this case of a single coin might be a little too hard a word.

While I'm a proponent for world trade occurring on a much broader scale substantially earlier than is accepted in the historical paradigm, a single coin, even if found with other same period/regional artifacts could indicate direct trade, but, it could also indicate a chain of trade.

A chain of trade would take the coin from China, through trade routes with India where the coin changes hands over and over from far East, to Middle East, into Africa.
All this could occur over land from one trade route to the next over and over where the coin gradually becomes an ornamental trade item or charm due its exotic nature as opposed to currency.

This doesn't require one long continuous trade route, but a gradual passing along over many trade routes and travelers over time.

reply to post by Spider879

The 600 year old coin that proves China was trading with East Africa BEFORE Europeans arrived

I wasn't aware that these trade deniers existed.

I wonder what happened to this supposed large population of people on Manda Island. I've tried looking it up before, but all I can find is that no one knows lol.

I have a feeling that because China discontinued doing much of anything outside it's boarders, that the people of Manda moved further inland. No trade, no economy... can't support that many people. Who knows though...

Maybe the white man came in, kicked out the Chinese and stole all the wealth from the island.

Holy Crap!!!!!

I owned one of these!!!

Mine had those exact same symbols on the back and on the reversed side it had a chinese dragon!!!

My coin was in much better condition though, I bought it for $1 from a traveling trader that came through our town once. A local coin collector offered me $100 bucks for it once and I turned him down because I felt like it was important to hang on to it.

Sadly, I was jumped by some kids at my highschool years ago and my wallet was taken. It had the coin tucked away in it...


:-(

People like to trade stuff so as Druscilla said it could easily of been a trade of a trade of a trade etc so it doesn't prove direct trading but its like finding Buddhas in Norse burials that people did more than the modern scientific methodology would like to admit and the real proof of trading is finding stuff from Africa in Chinese stratified deposits.

Originally posted by Druscilla

I think "proves" in this case of a single coin might be a little too hard a word.

While I'm a proponent for world trade occurring on a much broader scale substantially earlier than is accepted in the historical paradigm, a single coin, even if found with other same period/regional artifacts could indicate direct trade, but, it could also indicate a chain of trade.

A chain of trade would take the coin from China, through trade routes with India where the coin changes hands over and over from far East, to Middle East, into Africa.
All this could occur over land from one trade route to the next over and over where the coin gradually becomes an ornamental trade item or charm due its exotic nature as opposed to currency.

This doesn't require one long continuous trade route, but a gradual passing along over many trade routes and travelers over time.

While the coin seems sensational it was hardly the first trade item,for the Swahili a sea going Bantu speaking people on the coast along with the Arabs,Indians and Persians did direct trade with China,the Swahili then took Chinese goods to the Zimbabwean empire in the hinterland who also controlled the port of Sofala ,the Swahili transshipped a Giraffe to one of the Ming dynasty Emperors that caused a sensation,they also exchanged ambassadors East Africa was the end or the beginning of a vast trading network depending on your POV of the sea route kinda like the silk route over land.

Swahili ambassador Ming dynasty

reply to post by Spider879

have you guys ever heard of ancient "Silk Road". a trading network through China, India, Iran and Egypt.
en.wikipedia.org...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok now I see you have heard of it. so what is the point ?

Originally posted by retirednature
reply to post by Spider879

 

The 600 year old coin that proves China was trading with East Africa BEFORE Europeans arrived

I wasn't aware that these trade deniers existed.

I wonder what happened to this supposed large population of people on Manda Island. I've tried looking it up before, but all I can find is that no one knows lol.

I have a feeling that because China discontinued doing much of anything outside it's boarders, that the people of Manda moved further inland. No trade, no economy... can't support that many people. Who knows though...

Maybe the white man came in, kicked out the Chinese and stole all the wealth from the island.

In this particular case no, Europeans had nothing to do with the Manda moving on but the Portuguese did came and disrupt that ancient trade route because they had nothing worth trading non wanted to do business with them but they had a lot of gun powder and cannon,they wracked havoc on the city states,trade in slaves would supersede all else when it was a minor but important item before that era.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by Spider879

 

have you guys ever heard of ancient "Silk Road". a trading network through China, India, Iran and Egypt.
en.wikipedia.org...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok now I see you have heard of it. so what is the point ?

edit on 14-3-2013 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

Never take it for granted that folks know what you knew,for many this is the first time they would have heard anything like this.

reply to post by Spider879


China and India trading with East Afrca is very very well known - archeologists have discovered this by surveying the coast lines in Kenya and other East African countries - that is why the people there are quite mixed with arabic african and indian genes.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Spider879

 

China and India trading with East Afrca is very very well known - archeologists have discovered this by surveying the coast lines in Kenya and other East African countries - that is why the people there are quite mixed with arabic african and indian genes.

Quite true but did you also knew that even in far way West Africa there was extensive direct trading and communications with the East,a man called Bava Gor from the city of Kano Nigeria who along with his companions made their way 1st to Ethiopia then to Mecca and on to India where he became a famous precious stone merchant and religious figure,
And DNA tribe reported that West Africans of the Sahel have as much as 7% Indian dna

So alot of criss crossing did occur of men and goods from the most ancient of times,btw there are African population still existent in India today some connection to the slave trade others adventurers and the like.
binscorner.com...

I've always believed that world trade reached further back in time and further across the planet than history books and scholars present it as..

My personal moment came at a young age when the school took us to the local museum that held Hoves Amber Cup.. inside a Wessex culture burial site they found an amber cup from the Baltic buried inside an oak box along side a Mycenaean dagger on the coast of Sussex all of which where buried some 3500 years ago.

It is hard for me to imagine that trade routes did not expand in the following millenniums..

And it is these trade route that lead me to believe King Alfred could send a mission to the Christians in Mylopore to pay homage to St Thomas, I believe that mission used the existing trade routes and as such would not be surprised if trade between Africa and China was not a lot older than we are led to believe.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Spider879

 

China and India trading with East Afrca is very very well known - archeologists have discovered this by surveying the coast lines in Kenya and other East African countries - that is why the people there are quite mixed with arabic african and indian genes.

Its also believed that the Chinese were the first people to Australia, minus the aboriginal people of course. Remember that the Chinese, at one time, were the premiere explorers of the world with the worlds largest fleet.

reply to post by Spider879


Hi spider,
I appreciate your input on African related topics, I have personally learned from your threads.
Your characterization of the Portugese travels to east africa are not entirely correct.
Trade along the east coast of Africa was controlled by Muslim Arabs, who had supported and in some cases installed sympathetic local rulers, but absolutely controlled the trade. The Arabs didn't want to trade with the Portugese simply for political/religious reasons.
I highly recomended " Into the Rising Sun" by Luc Cuvyer, it details the history of Portugese expansion into the India ocean.
Also the romans started direct trade with east Africa in late 5th century, with the first wholly roman shipping chain bringing the goods to Constantinople in 536 ish, and consequently also bringing bubonic plague from equatorial Africa, where yersinia pestis is non transmitable.
Speaking of Romans, I believe the first roman envoy the the Chinese emperor arrived at court during Augustus's reign, in fact there was so much roman/Chinese trade, that there was a "Chinatown" at the main port city for Rome.
I might also add that Zheng He's voyage to Africa, set sail from an austronesian port with experienced austronesian sailors, who had been plying the Indian ocean for thousands of years.

reply to post by Hopechest


Sorry, but the austronesians beat the Chinese to Australia by 3000 years or more, they brought the dingo to Australia

I`m not surprised by this. Way back in the day when i was looking up the truth to most of those ill advised afrocentric ideals i ran across this tidbit, that ancient China and Africans traded with each other and quite extensively to boot.

I can't remember who did it, but a king sent some exotic pets to one of the chinese rulers, including a girraffe. Sweet!

This does not signify a direct international trade between China and East Africa in the fifteenth century. No such trade existed. It is actually something much more exciting.

The Indian Ocean voyages of the great Chinese eunuch-admiral Zheng He (he whom Westerners used to call Cheng Ho) are contemporary with this coin. We know Zheng visited Malindi; he took back to China a giraffe from there. The coin was quite probably lost by a member of his expedition, or traded by one of them in a one-time deal for something or other.

It may have been given, not to an African, but to an Arab. The East African coast in the fifteenth century was heavily Islamicised, having been under Arab dominance since the eighth century. However, Arab political authority had mostly crumbled by the 1400s, and by the early years of the next century the Portuguese would be along to help themselves to the Arabs' possessions, such as Zanzibar. Meanwhile, any trade between the two regions would have been carried out by Arabs. This would have been little enough; a few tusks of ivory every year, perhaps. China didn't need much from Africa, and there was nothing Africans thought they needed from China.

reply to post by punkinworks10

I appreciate your input on African related topics, I have personally learned from your threads. Your characterization of the Portugese travels to east africa are not entirely correct. Trade along the east coast of Africa was controlled by Muslim Arabs, who had supported and in some cases installed sympathetic local rulers, but absolutely controlled the trade. The Arabs didn't want to trade with the Portugese simply for political/religious reasons.

The Arabs loomed large on the coast but absolute control no,it's much more correct to say Muslim for these guys had their own fleets they were not mare clients of the Arabs,and the inland leg of that trade route was controlled by the Zimbabwean empire,but what I was alluding to was for hundreds of yrs there was a sense of stability after the Portuguese things changed Arabs especially from Yemen and Oman along with Turks moved in on the Swahili they intern encroached on the inland Bantus their cousins.
An interesting four way conflict between the coastal Swahili the Portuguese the Turks and an inland very powerful state called the Malawi empire, who control another people called the Zimba as shock troops..more shocking than most shock troops so because they were reported to be cannibals.

Here now is the why they were not some random group of un-controllable barbarians they were in fact a part of the military apparatus of a powerful inland state who could unleashed them at will.

In 1498 Vasco da Gama reached Mozambique and Mombasa, and the next year he bombarded Mogadishu. Kilwa had long prospered from the gold trade at Sofala and was reached by Pedro Alvares Cabral in 1500; da Gama began imposing tribute two years later. In 1505 the Portuguese led by Francisco d'Almeida built a fort at Sofala near the mouth of the Zambezi River before sacking and garrisoning Kilwa; Mombasa, Hoja, and Brava were only plundered. At Mozambique a hospital, church, factory, warehouse and fort were built in 1507. Only Mogadishu was strong enough to maintain its independence from these attacks. By 1512 the Portuguese garrison and Franciscans left Kilwa, and Sofala also suffered because of lack of gold. Nuno da Cunha plundered Mombasa again in 1528. The Turks raided the east coast down to Malindi in 1540. By then posts were established at Sena and Tete for gold mining up the river.

The Portuguese destroyed the shipping at Mogadishu in 1541. Led by Francisco Barrero, they invaded the Zambezi lowlands in 1571 and massacred Muslim traders. Another Portuguese invasion three years later forced the Uteve ruler to pay tribute to Sofala. Yet the Mutapa state managed to retain its independence on the eastern plateau. The Portuguese capital of Angola was founded at Luanda in 1576. Paolo Dias had tried to found a colony on the coast of Ndongo for mining silver in the Cunza valley; but this failed, and Luanda became a center for the slave trade instead. In 1585 Turks led by Amir 'Ali Bey caused revolts against the Portuguese landlords from Mogadishu to Mombasa; only Malindi remained loyal to Portugal. Zimba cannibals overcame the towns of Sena and Tete on the Zambezi, and in 1587 they took Kilwa, killing 3,000 people.

At Mombasa the Zimba slaughtered the Muslim inhabitants; but they were halted at Malindi by the Bantu-speaking Segeju and went home. This stimulated the Portuguese to take over Mombasa a third time in 1589, and four years later they built Fort Jesus to administer the region. Between Lake Malawi and the Zambezi mouth, Kalonga Mzura made an alliance with the Portuguese in 1608 and fielded 4,000 warriors to help defeat their rival Zimba, who were led by chief Lundi. In 1614 Mombasa's sultan al-Hasan went to the Portuguese viceroy at Goa in India to complain. When the shaykh returned to Mombasa the next year, he had to flee and was murdered by the Portuguese. His son Yusuf was sent to Goa to be educated. books.google.co.jp...=onep age&q=the%20lundu%20civilization&f=false
www.jstor.org...

And yes the Romans and Greeks were doing business in the area remember Periplus of the Erythraean sea but even quite further back Kemet and Kush were there for the Puntites were a coastal folk international commerce was quite old for east Africa.

reply to post by Spider879

None of which argues for a direct trade between Africa and China.