North Korea await final order / Communication hotline severed

reply to post by rigel4


www.aljazeera.com... link for your tweet

A corporal in South Korea's marine corps has killed four fellow marines and injured another in a shooting rampage at an island base near the country's border with North Korea, according to a military spokesman. The corporal, identified by his surname Kim, opened fire in the barracks on Monday morning, killing three fellow marines at the scene, Colonel Kim Tae-eun, the marine corps spokesman, told Al Jazeera. The fourth marine died while being transported via helicopter to a military hospital in Gimpo, a suburb located west of Seoul, the capital, the spokesman said. The corporal, was taken into custody on Ganghwa island, located 70km west of Seoul, near the border and is currently being treated for injuries obtained from hurling a hand grenade in an attempted suicide, Kim said. He said an investigation team has been launched to probe the corporal's motive for the killing spree. Monday's shooting is the worst to happen in South Korean military since 2005, when a soldier killed eight colleagues and wounded several others after tossing a hand grenade and opening fire at a front-line army unit.

so there is some conformation on your story...at least it seems to be a south korean instead of north Korean infiltrator so at least this incident is not likely to lead to war

reply to post by Catch_a_Fire


people snap some times it happend in 2005 in korea as well or at least a comparable incident

Discipline questions The soldier later explained his motive as rage against superiors who verbally assaulted him. The 2005 incident raised questions about the level of discipline in South Korea's 650,000-strong military. Two-year military service is mandatory for all able-bodied South Korean men, under a conscription system aimed at deterring aggression from North Korea.

www.aljazeera.com... who knows it could have been another bullied solider or a guy who just had a bad day and one to many things happened and set him off

www.bbc.co.uk... some more news if any one wanted some updates this link is china cautioning us on our missile defense policy and the increase in our missile defense

China has criticized a US plan to strengthen its missile defenses in response to North Korea's growing military capabilities. The move would "intensify antagonism", a Foreign Ministry spokesman said, urging the US to "act prudently".

while i don't agree that missile defense is an aggressive act i can at least understand why they don't want us to be able to stop their ballistic missiles

www.intellasia.net... know nothing about this source so take it for what its worth but japan claims to have seized north korean nuclear supplies/materials

apan has seized aluminium alloy rods which can be used to make nuclear centrifuges from a Singapore-flagged ship which was carrying cargo from North Korea, a government spokesman said Monday. The five rods were discovered on the ship during its call at Tokyo port last August and were confirmed to be aluminium alloy through tests conducted over the past six months, said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga. “The aluminium alloy is extremely strong and can be used in centrifuges, that are products related to nuclear development,” Suga told a regular news briefing. The rods had been stored at a private warehouse and the Japanese government ordered the firm Monday to hand them over.

so we will have to wait to see if this can be confirmed but if true it does not bode well for the situation

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


Thanks for those updates

So China decide to break an uneasy silence, wonder what the US response will be.

reply to post by Catch_a_Fire


probably to speed up the placement of our missile defense instillation as in life actions tend to speak louder then words(condemnation) im surprised we don't have any in Hawaii or our other pacific territory's like Guam i think?

im not to informed on how the interceptors work other then a little bit of info on how aegis works but could we end up putting them on our attack subs to act as a mobile missile defense platform or is that beyond the level of technology we have today?


www.wthr.com... another update talking about b-52s participating in the drills that have angered north korea

WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States is flying nuclear-capable B-52 bombers on training missions over South Korea to highlight Washington's commitment to defend an ally amid rising tensions with North Korea, Pentagon officials said Monday. Pentagon press secretary George Little said one B-52 flew over South Korea on March 8, and the deputy defense secretary, Ashton Carter, said during a visit to Seoul that another bomber mission is scheduled for Tuesday. B-52 bombers are capable of launching nuclear-armed cruise missiles, but Little said those participating in the Korean exercise are not armed with nuclear weapons.

so this seems to be a show of force to intimidate NK

www.fresnobee.com... we give show of support to south korea while warning north Korea about their shenanigans

SEOUL, South Korea -- A senior U.S. military official visiting Seoul is sending a message to both Koreas: warning Pyongyang over recent threats and reassuring South Korea that military backing won't be hurt by a U.S. budget debate. Read more here: www.fresnobee.com...=cpy

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


Well I was just saying in another thread that things appeared to be quietening down, now I'm not so sure after reading those links. Intimidation could make Li'l Kim bite.

reply to post by Catch_a_Fire


yeah the b52's can provide deep strikes with nukes really quickly if they had to on to the missle defense thing re reading a few links it seems that our new interceptors wont be online until 2017....so it seems that they are not rushing to implement them
en.wikipedia.org...
bit more info on the venerable B52 or BUFF

The ability to carry up to 20 AGM-69 SRAM nuclear missiles was added to G and H models, starting in 1971.[91] To further improve the B-52's offensive ability, Air Launched Cruise Missiles (ALCMs) were fitted.[92] After testing of both the Air Force-backed Boeing AGM-86 and the Navy-backed General Dynamics AGM-109 Tomahawk, the AGM-86B was selected for operation by the B-52 (and ultimately by the B-1 Lancer).[93] A total of 194 B-52Gs and Hs were modified to carry AGM-86s, carrying 12 missiles on underwing pylons, with 82 B-52Hs further modified to carry another eight missiles on a rotary launcher fitted in the aircraft's bomb-bay. To conform with the requirements of the SALT II Treaty for cruise missile capable aircraft to be readily identified by reconnaissance satellites, the cruise missile armed B-52Gs were modified with a distinctive wing root fairing. As all B-52Hs were assumed to be modified, no visual modification of these aircraft was required.[94] In 1990, the stealthy AGM-129 ACM cruise missile entered service; although intended to replace the AGM-86, a high cost and the Cold War's end led to only 450 being produced; unlike the AGM-86, no conventional (non-nuclear) version was built.

so if stuff pops off i would assume that b-52s,b-1b's and f-22's(if combat ready) will be the first respondents to north Korean aggression and i would not want to be on the receiving end of a payload of conventional let alone nuclear bombs out of those big beasts.add to that that i think only the Vietnamese have shot the b52 down in combat makes it a pretty intimidating platform to bring ordinance on to the target and also of note they are the only bomber of its kind since korea to score air to air kills either with missiles or in one case a tail gunner shooting down a mig 29

answers.yahoo.com... (yahoo answers i know)

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


We may see the first use of those huge bunker busters they supposedly shipped to Israel for the apparent use on Iran.

reply to post by Catch_a_Fire


slightly off topic but even if the IDF has the bombs i am unsure if they field any air craft that are capable of using them let alone getting off the ground with one and i think that in combination with their lack in in air refiling make our participation in a theoretical strike on Irans facilities almost mandatory....assuming its a conventional strike.


as far as i know only our large heavy bombers (b1b,b52) are capible of using the MOP massive ordinance penetrating bomb but i could be wrong on that

MI6 and CIA were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMD...Just wondering if they could confirm North Korea isn't awaiting final order...
Hoping for the best and preparing for the worst....

reply to post by relocator


well Iraq didn't have independently verified proof of tests unlike the recent test done by NK(the earthquakes being the proof i speak of) so im much more inclined to believe nk has nukes then most other nations that make that claim

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas




Take note of the "mileage / distance"

not much space to run..............or fly for that matter.

Hell on a stick to the south

Nasty terrain the the north.

Chinese to the West.


.........bad luck or what?

reply to post by CaptainBeno

www.af.mil... b1b
www.acc.af.mil... b52
not quite sure what your trying to point out as far as needing to run.....as the b52's would be escorted and i am unaware of any weapons they have that could in theory shoot down a b52 flying at 50,000 feet let alone the b1b which i believe(possibly wrongly) can fly higher but exact numbers were never released other then higher then 35,000 feet and with the b1b's advanced stealth,jamming and countermeasure suite im confident like the old axiom goes "the bombers will get through"

www.iiss.org... -on-the-kore/ info on nk military while they have substantial surface to air missiles their age and reliability are in question as stated in the next link

www.cnn.com...

The main weakness of the North's military is a chronic shortage of computers, modern command and control and electronic warfare assets -- in other words, much of what makes up the 21st-century battlefield. At the same time, South Korea has used its economic strength to modernize its armed forces: for example, building three $1 billion Aegis-class destroyers to counter ballistic missiles. The same applies in the air. North Korea's air force largely comprises aging Soviet MiG fighters (though it has some MiG 29s) that would be unable to compete with South Korean F-15 jets or the F-16 fighters of the U.S. 7th Air Force, based in South Korea. In addition, the North's air force has suffered fuel shortages, and Jane's estimated that the North's fighter pilots may get as little as 25 flying hours per year. The North Koreans also have a large fleet of Russian-design biplanes that would be better suited to crop-spraying but could be used to drop special forces behind enemy lines in the event of conflict. To compensate for obsolescence, the North deploys boots on the ground in great numbers. Jane's estimates that its standing army numbers just over 1 million personnel, with reserves estimated at more than 7 million. But North Korean soldiers are poorly fed, according to analysts and reports from defectors, and rarely train due to scarcity of fuel and ammunition

they may have gotten some new toys from china but as America has not lost air superiority since ww2(but the Vietnamese gave us the most resistance and are as far as i know the only country to shoot down a b52 in combat) in any war its fought in since then i have faith in our armed forces

info on air superiority and its role in combat (from ww2)
www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil...
en.wikipedia.org... while not in use any more it had a range of 110 miles so looking at the map they would not have to enter north korean air space to use these weapons or their replacements the en.wikipedia.org... which have a range of Operational
range AGM-86B: 1,500+ mi (2,400+ km);
AGM-86C: classified (nominal 680 miles, 1,100 km) so i doubt IF the b52's etc had to engage north korean forces they would not even enter their airspace to strike at least until we have crippled or destroyed the bulk of their SAM and aging air force units.

it is never wise to underestimate your opponent but to think that north Korea could challenge the USA in air supremacy is also not very likely....let alone the united nations forces that would be brought into play (originally the Korean war was a UN action comprising dozens of nations not just the "west")


long read at another message board so i will not quote it but this is one of the more detailed pieces on the capabilities of the North Koreans www.militaryphotos.net... seems what they have the most of are AA guns but i havent finished the article figured some people would find it interesting
last link also informative with graphs maps and ranges explained geimint.blogspot.com...

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas
Nice post , good links very informative, here is one that shows the Boeing AGM-86 ALCM, AKA cruse missile www.designation-systems.net... this is most likely why the B52's are there, it is thought the B52 could in one mission launch 24 of them form one B52 I thinking more like 12 , 3 per pod, 2 in the bomb-bay 2 under wing that's 6, 2 in the bay =12. Thinking about the 24 would be a push 12 under wing 12 in the 2 bays have not done the math to prove this ,weight length over all dimensions, from this en.wikipedia.org... the G model has a total take off weight of 488.000 lbs and form this, from the first link above

Length 6.32 m (20 ft 9 in)
Wingspan 3.66 m (12 ft)
Diameter 62 cm (24.5 in)
Weight 1450 kg (3200 lb)
AGM-86C Block I: 1950 kg (4300 lb)
Speed 800 km/h (500 mph)
Range 2400 km (1500 miles)
AGM-86C Block I: 1200 km (750 miles)
Propulsion Williams F107-WR-101 turbofan; 2.7 kN (600 lb)
Warhead W-80-1 thermonuclear (5-150 kT)
AGM-86C Block I: 1450 kg (3000 lb) HE blast-fragmentation
AGM-86D: 540 kg (1200 lb) hard-target penetrator

it seems as if a B52 could have 24 cruse missiles just a thought not proven, yet need time to find it. must be tired it is the B1B that can carry 24 cruse missiles www.globalsecurity.org...
that is all...

reply to post by bekod

AGM-86B/C/D missiles increase flexibility in target selection. AGM-86B missiles can be air-launched in large numbers by the bomber force. B-52H bombers carry six AGM-86B or AGM-86C missiles on each of two externally mounted pylons and eight internally on a rotary launcher, giving the B-52H a maximum capacity of 20 missiles per aircraft.

from my wiki on the earlier post depending on type they can carry about 20 which is still nothing to laugh at so with just 5 b52's we could launch 100 cruise missiles with either conventional or nuclear warheads.....thats just 5 of our something like 95ish b52s we have not to mention what the b1b can do

the real scary part is we have been using the b52 since the late 1952 and its still one of the most devastating weapons in our arsenal and some of them have been flying sine before my parents were born

www.youtube.com...



www.youtube.com...
the ammount of weapons these birds carry is truly astounding..... would not want to be a grunt and see one of these or worse a whole fleet of them fly over head

www.youtube.com...
pretty sure this is a video of a magnum launch or scramble demonstration showing that these big birds can move if they have to

www.youtube.com...
b1b for comparisons sake

and b1b dropping cluster bombs www.youtube.com...



add one more link that shows all of our hevy bombers doing work www.youtube.com...

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


Sorry mate, I meant................not much room for THEM (North Koreans) to run.

Once it starts

North Korea resembles a bucket, North Korean army being the fish.

pew pew!

reply to post by CaptainBeno


ah my apologies for my reading comprehension failure.and thank your for correcting my mistake
(happens when i been drinking )

and in that light yeah they are kind of between a rock and a hard place its sad that even if their is a war that the people who will suffer most will not be those fighting each other but the countless civilians that will be killed even if it does not go nuclear

reply to post by rigel4


Looks like it's a separate incident. My post about the SK soldier found dead was in Cheorwon-gun. The shooting spree took place at an island base.

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


Hey, no problems mate. Probably my description!