CNN Announces Brown Dwarf Entering our Solar System

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by JrDavis

 

I'll repeat eriktheawful's question: exactly what "truth" could the public not handle?

What do you mean what truth?

Why are you on a conspiracy website if you think there isn't any truth that the public couldn't handle?

They obviously keep things hidden for a reason.

Religion being one of them..

I assume you think we're the only ones in this universe too.

Originally posted by JrDavis

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by JrDavis

 

I'll repeat eriktheawful's question: exactly what "truth" could the public not handle?

What do you mean what truth?

Why are you on a conspiracy website if you think there isn't any truth that the public couldn't handle?

They obviously keep things hidden for a reason.

Religion being one of them..

I assume you think we're the only ones in this universe too.

That wasn't much of a coherent reply, but then I probably shouldn't expect anything more from someone with paranoid delusions. No matter how many times you say things like "they", "truth", "hidden", etc. it doesn't make it any more real. Scientific data and astronomical observation are real. If you can get any grasp of those, then we can talk meaningfully.

Originally posted by JrDavis

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by JrDavis

 

I'll repeat eriktheawful's question: exactly what "truth" could the public not handle?

What do you mean what truth?

Why are you on a conspiracy website if you think there isn't any truth that the public couldn't handle?

They obviously keep things hidden for a reason.

Religion being one of them..

I assume you think we're the only ones in this universe too.

There are conspiracies......then there is just being paranoid.

And again: NASA does NOT have a monopoly on the skies. Sorry. There are plenty of universities and observatories out there with IR equipment and lots of amateur astronomers with set ups that make even the universities jealous.

ATS is a conspiracy site. But it's also dedicated to denying ignorance. Blindly believing that you are being lied to by even NON government agencies is not denying ignorance. It's embracing it.

And again, the discovery of a large gas giant out past the Kuiper belt, or a brown dwarf orbiting our star has very little to do with religion as far as I can tell.

NASA or anyone else for that mater would have little to gain from trying to keep something like that a secret. More discoveries, especially outstanding ones brings more awareness, more public demand for further discoveries and explorations.....which means more funding if enough demand it.

reply to post by JrDavis


ATS is not just a conspiracy forum. It attracts people with wide and varied interests, which is one the main reasons it is by far the best site of its' type.

All of the science forums are full of people with proper scientific knowledge that do not not let wild unsubstantiated claims rule the roost (another reason this site is tops). And if you stop to think about it, that actually makes it better for those that are more conspiracy minded because occasionally, things surface that can't be debunked (meaning there is a mystery about them) - it sorts the wheat from the chaff.

Originally posted by wildespace

Originally posted by eriktheawful
If you'd bother to read my post above, the WISE probe would have found anything Jupiter sized up to 1 light year away. It didn't. And it surveyed the sky (all of it) twice.

To play the Devil's advocate, although WISE surveys are complete, the data is still being examined and new discoveries are still being made.

For example, the third-closest to us star system has just been found in WISE images, and it's a pair of brown dwarfs! science.psu.edu... This also makes them the closest brown dwarfs to the Solar System. They have now been found in old surveys like 2MASS eleven years ago, and even the older DSS imagery... but no one noticed them until now. So if these kind of objects are still being discovered close to home, who knows if we might not discover a very small and very cool brown dwarf even closer.

Says Phil Plait: "for years I’ve wondered aloud if there are any stars closer than Alpha Centauri to us. Recent surveys of the sky have made that seem unlikely, but now I wonder. Those same surveys missed WISE 1049-5319. Could there be an even fainter star or stars closer to us? I’ll admit it’s unlikely, but not impossible."

edit on 12-3-2013 by wildespace because: (no reason given)

"New discoveries are being made'. And CAN be made.
This could be a Pink Dwarf or, more likely, a Brown Dwarf Black Hole.
Furthermore, it is possible that this unknown object does NOT have to be in our solar system at all to exert its gravitational power : it is extremely hard to find a brown dwarf in a black hole (they spin by the way, enough to make Phage quite dizzy).
Put that in your astronomical pipe and smoke it.

Originally posted by mclinking

"New discoveries are being made'. And CAN be made.
This could be a Pink Dwarf or, more likely, a Brown Dwarf Black Hole.
Furthermore, it is possible that this unknown object does NOT have to be in our solar system at all to exert its gravitational power : it is extremely hard to find a brown dwarf in a black hole (they spin by the way, enough to make Phage quite dizzy).
Put that in your astronomical pipe and smoke it.

I would dare say that yes, it's very hard to find a brown dwarf that is IN a black hole!



Considering anything past the event horizon is never seen again, including light.....

Gravitational mass of a black hole is infinitely stronger than any brown dwarf. It's affects would be far reaching, and would wreck havoc on our planetary bodies and would be quite observable in those affects.

Fortunately nothing seems to be tugging on any of our planets other than our sun at this time..........constant observation of all of them from yes professional astronomers to the literal hundreds of MILLIONS of amateur astronomers would show something wrong very quickly if it were otherwise.

No hiding that.

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by mclinking

"New discoveries are being made'. And CAN be made.
This could be a Pink Dwarf or, more likely, a Brown Dwarf Black Hole.
Furthermore, it is possible that this unknown object does NOT have to be in our solar system at all to exert its gravitational power : it is extremely hard to find a brown dwarf in a black hole (they spin by the way, enough to make Phage quite dizzy).
Put that in your astronomical pipe and smoke it.

I would dare say that yes, it's very hard to find a brown dwarf that is IN a black hole!

Considering anything past the event horizon is never seen again, including light.....

Gravitational mass of a black hole is infinitely stronger than any brown dwarf. It's affects would be far reaching, and would wreck havoc on our planetary bodies and would be quite observable in those affects.

Fortunately nothing seems to be tugging on any of our planets other than our sun at this time..........constant observation of all of them from yes professional astronomers to the literal hundreds of MILLIONS of amateur astronomers would show something wrong very quickly if it were otherwise.

No hiding that.

True. But this thread is about something affecting earth's environment which may or may not be of an astronomical nature. Here, we are talking about our crust, our weather, our atmosphere. I really think we are in the dark here and all speculation should be allowed. One significant factor came out of the Little Ice Age was the absence of sunspots, so in a sense astronomical data did seem to affect Europe's climate in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries. Whether some outer space object or setup is TODAY causing Earth's problems is still debateable. Unless something else is tugging at our sun which in turn is tugging at us.

reply to post by mclinking


Please explain the mechanism by which a body hundreds of millions of miles away would affect Earth's climate and tectonics. If you say that body has a huge gravitational pull on Earth, wouldn't it also affect other planets? Wouldn't that object have to be large enough and close enough that it would be visible in ordinary telescopes?

You lost me there, especially when you mentioned a brown dwarf in a black hole...

reply to post by mclinking


Actually the OP's post says:

One might think that the lamestream media might have kept an eye on this particular headline from August 2011. Since CNN has not redacted the story as a mistake, one would have to infer that that the story simply fell off their radar, or... The Government has a forced media blackout on the subject. Either way, could explain the increasing number of comets, asteroids and meteors lately in 2013...

So the discussion was about increased amounts of comets, asteroids and meteors. Not our climate.

However, since you brought it up: can you show a mechanism that has a celestial body at the edge of our solar system that can affect our climate without causing any gravitational problems with the planets, that also does not emit anything on the EM spectrum (no light, heat, radiation, etc) since all those would be detectable?

Not being snarky either. I'm curious as to whether or not you can show this mechanism and what it might be.

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by mclinking

 

Please explain the mechanism by which a body hundreds of millions of miles away would affect Earth's climate and tectonics. If you say that body has a huge gravitational pull on Earth, wouldn't it also affect other planets? Wouldn't that object have to be large enough and close enough that it would be visible in ordinary telescopes?

You lost me there, especially when you mentioned a brown dwarf in a black hole...

No, I didn't say something hundreds of millions of miles would affect our climate - that, I'm sure, is the Sun. No, I'm saying something a long way away may be affecting our sun which in turn is affecting our earth.
As for the brown dwarf in a black hole, it might sound ridiculous, but the ridiculous does happen.

This thread has spiraled into silliness. A brown dwarf's black hole...it is like an enigma wrapped in bacon

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by mclinking

 

Actually the OP's post says:

One might think that the lamestream media might have kept an eye on this particular headline from August 2011. Since CNN has not redacted the story as a mistake, one would have to infer that that the story simply fell off their radar, or... The Government has a forced media blackout on the subject. Either way, could explain the increasing number of comets, asteroids and meteors lately in 2013...

So the discussion was about increased amounts of comets, asteroids and meteors. Not our climate.

However, since you brought it up: can you show a mechanism that has a celestial body at the edge of our solar system that can affect our climate without causing any gravitational problems with the planets, that also does not emit anything on the EM spectrum (no light, heat, radiation, etc) since all those would be detectable?

Not being snarky either. I'm curious as to whether or not you can show this mechanism and what it might be.

I really can't. But because I can't doesn't alter the fact that something is wrong somewhere. So whilst we continue to have our problems increasing, we HAVE to look and find some 'connection'. Maybe that's what I'm saying : not to find a mystery body, but a connection with our sun that's attracting comets and the like.

Originally posted by mclinking

I really can't. But because I can't doesn't alter the fact that something is wrong somewhere. So whilst we continue to have our problems increasing, we HAVE to look and find some 'connection'. Maybe that's what I'm saying : not to find a mystery body, but a connection with our sun that's attracting comets and the like.

Of course the sun attracts comets they ORBIT it until they hit something one of the planets or the Sun itself or through many orbits they loose enough material that all that's left is rock.

The comet Panstarrs now visible in the northern hemisphere is NEW to us but not to the Sun it's orbit is 106,000 years so it will be back but we wont see it.

reply to post by mclinking


Actually your reply here got me to thinking last night, that along with some other threads here on ATS.

As for you feeling that something is wrong, I can't argue that as there are no Wiki articles saying "everything is okay", hehehehe.

However, all the recent threads about Fireballs being seen, increased meteor activity (saw a great shooting star last night myself while I was out learning how to use my new camera on the stars......unfortunately it didn't streak by in front of my camera! grrrr). The number of comets we are seeing this year......

I've notice that some people here on ATS are jumping up and yelling that something is wrong, or that this is unusual, etc. I've seen threads that it's global warming causing it, methane gas causing it, brown dwarfs causing it.....it's rather wild to see all the claims about what is "causing" this.

I could sit here and cite that in today's world, there are more people with media devices in their hands (iPhones, etc) and more connectivity to the internet with the ability to report some of these things as to why it seems they are on the rise.
Ten years ago, there was not that much access to earthquake data on the internet, and 15 years ago even less. Before that, only the big ones made the news.

However, instead of citing that, I'm going to cite something else: our solar system.

Our solar system is NOT a static place. It's a very dynamic place. Things change all the time And time is another factor. Like wmd_2008 said, this comet we are seeing now has a 106,000 year orbit.....an eye blink on the cosmic scale, but a staggering amount to us humans.

The solar system and the things in it are like a super highway, with cars zooming around on it. You should know from experience that at times there's only a few cars zooming by.....while at other times a huge amount of cars and trucks go screaming by.

It's like our climate here on Earth. So many people act shocked that our climate can change (and I'm not talking about AGW climate change.....I'm talking about climate changing naturally). Both the geological and arctic ice records clearly show that the Earth's climate changes all the time, that the time period that humans have had civilization has actually be a unique calm period.

However, us humans are used to cause and effect: eat a hot dog with onions on it = heart burn.

So I can see why people want to search hard for a reason and blame something. We're used to doing that.

I just wished people would remember: our solar system is not static. It's a very dynamic, and chaotic place.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by mclinking

 

Actually your reply here got me to thinking last night, that along with some other threads here on ATS.

As for you feeling that something is wrong, I can't argue that as there are no Wiki articles saying "everything is okay", hehehehe.

However, all the recent threads about Fireballs being seen, increased meteor activity (saw a great shooting star last night myself while I was out learning how to use my new camera on the stars......unfortunately it didn't streak by in front of my camera! grrrr). The number of comets we are seeing this year......

I've notice that some people here on ATS are jumping up and yelling that something is wrong, or that this is unusual, etc. I've seen threads that it's global warming causing it, methane gas causing it, brown dwarfs causing it.....it's rather wild to see all the claims about what is "causing" this.

I could sit here and cite that in today's world, there are more people with media devices in their hands (iPhones, etc) and more connectivity to the internet with the ability to report some of these things as to why it seems they are on the rise.
Ten years ago, there was not that much access to earthquake data on the internet, and 15 years ago even less. Before that, only the big ones made the news.

However, instead of citing that, I'm going to cite something else: our solar system.

Our solar system is NOT a static place. It's a very dynamic place. Things change all the time And time is another factor. Like wmd_2008 said, this comet we are seeing now has a 106,000 year orbit.....an eye blink on the cosmic scale, but a staggering amount to us humans.

The solar system and the things in it are like a super highway, with cars zooming around on it. You should know from experience that at times there's only a few cars zooming by.....while at other times a huge amount of cars and trucks go screaming by.

It's like our climate here on Earth. So many people act shocked that our climate can change (and I'm not talking about AGW climate change.....I'm talking about climate changing naturally). Both the geological and arctic ice records clearly show that the Earth's climate changes all the time, that the time period that humans have had civilization has actually be a unique calm period.

However, us humans are used to cause and effect: eat a hot dog with onions on it = heart burn.

So I can see why people want to search hard for a reason and blame something. We're used to doing that.

I just wished people would remember: our solar system is not static. It's a very dynamic, and chaotic place.

edit on 13-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

Yes, judging by the scars on other celestial bodies seen by our modern instruments - it is dramatic and chaotic. Yet there have been catastrophic disasters down here destroying civilisations. I think Sott site did a long article re a recurrent cycle of catastrophes occurring every 3600 years which started about 13,000 years ago, but again the cause wasn't apparent. Say for the sake of argument there is a long-period comet on this 3600 cycle, one that would have been seen in say 1560 BC, then it's quite possible that this comet will arrive shortly on its regular orbit. Now this alleged comet is a long cry from the fabled Nibiru - or is it?
What I'm saying is that, since Comet ISON was only discovered last September, it is feasible that this recurring comet could come back. Nevertheless, since it hasn't made its appearance yet, I can't quite connect it to the spate of current events occurring on earth.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by JrDavis

 

ATS is not just a conspiracy forum. It attracts people with wide and varied interests, which is one the main reasons it is by far the best site of its' type.

All of the science forums are full of people with proper scientific knowledge that do not not let wild unsubstantiated claims rule the roost (another reason this site is tops). And if you stop to think about it, that actually makes it better for those that are more conspiracy minded because occasionally, things surface that can't be debunked (meaning there is a mystery about them) - it sorts the wheat from the chaff.

I think when entering into a discussion like this. Everyone, Should keep in mind that science is an ever changing field.

Throughout history many theories, That during the time, Were thought to be 100% factual have actually been proven to be wrong.

Just because some (Especially Nasa) put down a theory. Doesn't mean that it's true. Especially from Nasa, ESA, Etc.

They said Mars didn't have life or anything on it. Now they say they do.

Ptolemy - Said that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Copernicus - Believed in Heliocentric.

And so and so fourth.


For one to enter a scientific debate without the discipline for open mindedness, Puts the person in the state of pure ignorance.


If the Solar System is ever changing. So can our theories.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by mclinking

 

Actually your reply here got me to thinking last night, that along with some other threads here on ATS.

As for you feeling that something is wrong, I can't argue that as there are no Wiki articles saying "everything is okay", hehehehe.

However, all the recent threads about Fireballs being seen, increased meteor activity (saw a great shooting star last night myself while I was out learning how to use my new camera on the stars......unfortunately it didn't streak by in front of my camera! grrrr). The number of comets we are seeing this year......

I've notice that some people here on ATS are jumping up and yelling that something is wrong, or that this is unusual, etc. I've seen threads that it's global warming causing it, methane gas causing it, brown dwarfs causing it.....it's rather wild to see all the claims about what is "causing" this.

I could sit here and cite that in today's world, there are more people with media devices in their hands (iPhones, etc) and more connectivity to the internet with the ability to report some of these things as to why it seems they are on the rise.
Ten years ago, there was not that much access to earthquake data on the internet, and 15 years ago even less. Before that, only the big ones made the news.

However, instead of citing that, I'm going to cite something else: our solar system.

Our solar system is NOT a static place. It's a very dynamic place. Things change all the time And time is another factor. Like wmd_2008 said, this comet we are seeing now has a 106,000 year orbit.....an eye blink on the cosmic scale, but a staggering amount to us humans.

The solar system and the things in it are like a super highway, with cars zooming around on it. You should know from experience that at times there's only a few cars zooming by.....while at other times a huge amount of cars and trucks go screaming by.

It's like our climate here on Earth. So many people act shocked that our climate can change (and I'm not talking about AGW climate change.....I'm talking about climate changing naturally). Both the geological and arctic ice records clearly show that the Earth's climate changes all the time, that the time period that humans have had civilization has actually be a unique calm period.

However, us humans are used to cause and effect: eat a hot dog with onions on it = heart burn.

So I can see why people want to search hard for a reason and blame something. We're used to doing that.

I just wished people would remember: our solar system is not static. It's a very dynamic, and chaotic place.

edit on 13-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

Right...

And from this you need to understand. Which evolves faster?

Solar System or Our Technology.

Although we have technology to find certain things. That doesn't mean the universe is 100% discovered.

There very well could be other things out there we do not know about.

Honestly, Even though we don't see a brown dwarf in our "Backyard" there very well could be another variable playing into gravitational attraction.

Gravity is one thing we have down. It has been used to prove many things in the past. Things that could not be seen still play a role in gravitational attraction..

Good stuff.

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by mclinking

 

Please explain the mechanism by which a body hundreds of millions of miles away would affect Earth's climate and tectonics. If you say that body has a huge gravitational pull on Earth, wouldn't it also affect other planets? Wouldn't that object have to be large enough and close enough that it would be visible in ordinary telescopes?

You lost me there, especially when you mentioned a brown dwarf in a black hole...

Yes it would affect other planets.

However every planet has a different mass. The smaller the mass the more the attraction.

Would it be visible, Depends on what the mechanism is.

Dark Energy, Brown or Black Dwarf, Another Solar system with greater mass, Etc.

Originally posted by JrDavis

Originally posted by wildespace
reply to post by mclinking

 

Please explain the mechanism by which a body hundreds of millions of miles away would affect Earth's climate and tectonics. If you say that body has a huge gravitational pull on Earth, wouldn't it also affect other planets? Wouldn't that object have to be large enough and close enough that it would be visible in ordinary telescopes?

You lost me there, especially when you mentioned a brown dwarf in a black hole...

Yes it would affect other planets.

However every planet has a different mass. The smaller the mass the more the attraction.

Would it be visible, Depends on what the mechanism is.

Dark Energy, Brown or Black Dwarf, Another Solar system with greater mass, Etc.

Actually, the smaller the mass, the less gravitational attraction.

Large mass means a greater gravitational force.

Hence why on the moon, which is much smaller in mass than the Earth, you will only weigh 1/6 of what you do here on Earth, or like on Mars, you'd only weigh about 1/3 of what you do here on Earth. Jupiter you'd weigh 2.5 times what you do here, and if you could stand on the surface of the sun, you'd weigh 27 times what you do here.

reply to post by eriktheawful


I think he means the object being attracted having the smaller mass.

Anyway there are lots of objects with a far smaller mass than the Earth and closer to the edge of the solar system than Earth, what about the asteroid belt THEY would be flying all over the place if his theory was true!