Islam and Free Speech: Principle vs. Privilege

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
Lol. Some thrifty electrical power maybe, that the world can tap into?

Well none of us can tap into it in our countries because the baboons who run the show keep it to themselves and use it for reasons I won't go into. This isn't a Muslim thing Hows the saying go?

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the Earth that he never existed in the first place..."

reply to post by ollncasino


many thanks, i've straightened my kecks outs, please accept this in return

Muhammed protects Christians - The Achtiname of Muhammed
en.wikipedia.org...
i was lucky enough to spend some time living and working with bedu tribes in Sinai as i think i mentioned above, during that time (while dahab was bombed, apparantly by AQ) i slept pretty much at the summit of Mount Sinai before descending to St Catherine's Monastery, where the burning bush is (or at least thats what they say..). funnily enough, right by the bush there was a fire extinguisher (i kid you not ) - sadly i cant track down my photo of it..
anyway, the original copy of the Achtiname is apparantly in "the treasury of constantinople", though copies reside at St Catherines,

here is a pic of one such copy

An English translation of that document: "This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

Muhammed apparantly took personal measures to ensure the monastery was protected from surrounding islamic tribes.
infact, the Gebeliya tribe, who's origins are from the balkans, moved to Sinai in the 5th century to act as the guardians of st catherines. they were christians when they did so, yet later converted to islam and still act as it's guardians to this day, though ofc nowadays it's more a ceremonial role. they acted as our guides, porters and hosts - warmer and more understanding people you could not hope to meet. i also stayed with the muslim Muzeina who took us through the desert and treated us with the utmost of hospitality and friendship, despite some very serious challenges from part of our group which included some highly challenging teenagers, but thats another story.
nice bunch, those muslims. it's a shame politicians, and preachers of major religions screw things up for the rest of us.

reply to post by skalla

Thank the Medicis for their contribution to humanity and money for the curse it brought.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


sorry, cav - late night and busy day.. my knowledge of the Medici family is very basic - though i assume you are using sarcasm?

reply to post by skalla


The more people delve into this culture/religion, the more interesting it gets...

I don't even have to open the thread these days to know that the author of this masterpiece of bigotry will be Ollncasino. Let's see if I can give a summary of the topic without reading it:

- Islam as a religion wants to silence you. If you aren't saying good things about Mohammed you can STFU.

- Muslims are moving to your western countries right now and they will be doing their best to implement Sharia law and make your women wear Burqas.

- Statistics show X number of Muslims want to take this right away from you.

- The International Organization of XYZ reports that by year 2025 Islam will make up X percentage of the population and WHAT WILL HAPPEN THEN!?!?

Again, Ollncasino. What's your point? What is your "final solution" to this growing abomination?

reply to post by DarknStormy


indeed, thats the nature of folk!

Originally posted by Malynn
I don't even have to open the thread these days to know that the author of this masterpiece of bigotry will be Ollncasino. Let's see if I can give a summary of the topic without reading it:

- Islam as a religion wants to silence you. If you aren't saying good things about Mohammed you can STFU.

- Muslims are moving to your western countries right now and they will be doing their best to implement Sharia law and make your women wear Burqas.

- Statistics show X number of Muslims want to take this right away from you.

- The International Organization of XYZ reports that by year 2025 Islam will make up X percentage of the population and WHAT WILL HAPPEN THEN!?!?

Again, Ollncasino. What's your point? What is your "final solution" to this growing abomination?

i'll give you a B+

however, should you not have posted this in "prophesies and predictions"?

reply to post by Malynn

Again, Ollncasino. What's your point? What is your "final solution" to this growing abomination?

Id say spreading awareness (even with threads like these) and limiting their immigration is good "final solution".

Originally posted by DarknStormy


"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the Earth that he never existed in the first place..."

edit on 11-3-2013 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

Lol, evidently he didn't do a very good job. Did he?

Originally posted by Malynn
I don't even have to open the thread these days to know that the author of this masterpiece of bigotry will be Ollncasino.

"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable."

James A. Garfield, US President

The truth will set you free. Too late for you though Malynn - you closed your mind a long time ago to any facts that make you feel uncomfortable.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Malynn
I don't even have to open the thread these days to know that the author of this masterpiece of bigotry will be Ollncasino.

"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable."

James A. Garfield, US President

The truth will set you free. Too late for you though Malynn - you closed your mind a long time ago to any facts that make you feel uncomfortable.

edit on 11-3-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

you were doing so well before the edit, your use of humour actually made me smile. you almost managed it with the godwin ref earlier too... and there was i thinking you were not actually an algorithm

Originally posted by Malynn
- Islam as a religion wants to silence you. If you aren't saying good things about Mohammed you can STFU.

What do they say, it's only paranoia if it isn't true?

Nowadays even in Turkey, Islam's most moderate state, people end up in court for insulting Islam

Virtuoso Turkish pianist Fazil Say appeared Thursday at an Istanbul court, where he has been charged with inciting hatred and insulting Islam in a series of Twitter posts.

Turkish pianist on trial for insulting Islam on Twitter

Originally posted by Malynn
Statistics show X number of Muslims want to take this right away from you.

Polls taken in the USA, UK and Denmark do show that Muslims polled do indeed support freedom of speech being taken away if they decide it insults Islam.

The 1 in 8 American Muslims polled who feel critics of Islam should be executed for criticizing Islam is quite worrying. The 1 in 8 British Muslims who support demonstrators calling for the death of those who insult Islam are also a matter of concern.




The 1 in 8 who wish to see me dead for criticizing Islam are a minority, albeit a very dangerous minority, who don't represent the views of the majority of British and American Muslims. Nonetheless a majority of British, American and Danish Muslims Polled did think that criticism of Islam should be prevented by law.

Originally posted by Malynn
Again, Ollncasino. What's your point? What is your "final solution" to this growing abomination?

Originally posted by skalla

you were doing so well before the edit, your use of humour actually made me smile. you almost managed it with the godwin ref earlier too... and there was i thinking you were not actually an algorithm

I'm an algorithm that edits posts?

Whatever gets you through the day.

reply to post by ollncasino

it's humour, i was beginning to think you understood it. i was almost being affectionate with you

reply to post by ollncasino


Do you support free speech when it comes to insulting a homosexual? How about a police officer? What about someone insulting your parents or brother and sister? How about I say the Jews deserved the Holocaust or something because its my right to exercise free speech (I don't believe they did btw, Its an example)? Would that offend you? There are some things and actions that should not be permitted whether you have the freedom of speech or not. People should use the freedom of their stupid brains before they speak and offend people.

Its funny though, people are free to offend Islam but when they fly a few posters saying to behead people, it offends you? Isn't it their right to freedom of speech? Ever thought they done it on purpose to see what hypocrites we actually are?

The 1 in 8 who wish to see me dead for criticizing Islam are a minority, albeit a very dangerous minority, who don't represent the views of the majority of British and American Muslims

reply to post by ollncasino


WND and Wenzel have polled british and american muslims as to how they feel about Ollncasino???



now i see why you find it worrying

The thing about insulting Islam is the punishment. You don't hear about people getting acid in their face, stoned, hung or beheaded for insulting Jews, Christians, homosexuals, or anyone.

It's bloodlust.

Originally posted by skalla

Muhammed protects Christians - The Achtiname of Muhammed

I'm sure that Muhammad, after he conquered the Arabian Peninsula, did protect his subjects.

For instance, in 628 Muhammad laid siege to the Jewish tribe in Khaibar with an army of 2,000. After the Jews surrendered Muhammad allowed them to stay on in return for an annual tribute of half of their produce.

Source: Battle of Khaybar

Similarly, in 630, Muhammad at the head of an army rumored to have 30,000 men and 10,000 cavalry negotiated a treaty with the Christian Prince of Aylah - in return for tribute the people retained freedom to worship as Christians.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)
Source: HistoryNet

Unfortunately, Muhammad's model of preventing Muslims from attacking Christians and Jews in return for payment of tribute, doesn't solve the problem that criticism of Islam today is a criminal offense in Islamic countries around the world.

Muslim leaders seek global blasphemy ban, limits on free speech

Western nations refuse to support Islamic nations calls for a worldwide blasphemy law but the 57 member Islamic IOC keep on coming back to the UN year after year.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
The thing about insulting Islam is the punishment. You don't hear about people getting acid in their face, stoned, hung or beheaded for insulting Jews, Christians, homosexuals, or anyone.

It's bloodlust.

Most of those types of punishments are because of criminal activity. Yes, Muslim countries do have criminals also.. I understand some may occur for insulting Islam but what gives us the right to insult that religion also? Are we looking for a major Holy war or something? We will get it if we are...