A logical wedge of absolute liberation and therefore, humor.

>

Will no one cry, or laugh?

Jesus went on to say, “To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: “‘We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.’

~ Luke 7:31-32

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
And so now - let us consider, think, talk about and examine, every single way and manner in which we avoid, repel against, fear, and delay the inevitability of or when all else fails, attempt to manage, manipulate and control, employing the strategems of Narcissus, the Reality wedge..
...Let's talk about how we run away from it, and the lengths to which we'll go to AVOID having an authentic spiritual experience of our own true selves as we really are, however inscrutable or unfathomable that may be..
...Let's wrestle over it and maybe even start a new thread about it where we can disagree over it and get to be right and make someone else wrong i.e.: avoid accepting the chinese handcuffs while attempting to place them on the other guy instead!
...

Interesting thread. Unfortunately, all I can add is drool from my lower lip at the underlined portion (above)...
How inscrutable or unfathomable do you consider such an experience...would be?
Do you count yourself as having come to such an "encounter" (with your own true self...as you really are)?
If so...what does that mean, to you?
Thanks in advance... (If you've already given the answer to these questions...please point me there, and I will satisfy my own curiosity therewith.)

reply to post by WanDash

Let me pose it in the form of a question to you..

Who (and what) are you? I mean really, deeply, at the most fundamental level?

Are you (your true creative self prior to any artificial or superficially imposed condition) not an inscrutable and unfathomable mystery?

And of course I'm not talking here about the role or roles that you play, but the true nature of the creative one who is free.

The temptation here of course might be to try to step outside of one's own experience and start talking about some "thing" that we are, but who can stand apart from one's own self and call themselves nothing but a thing or an it?

In all honesty I don't know who I am, but in knowing that I don't know, isn't that a kind of knowing even if the one at the heart of it is a mystery?

In fact, the only possible way to explore who we are and who another is, objectively, is through the mutual eyes of one another in relation to each other whereby we both stand on the unconditioned ground of all being and becoming, and therefore, at best, we can experience ourselves as a listening presence relative to one another and recognize ourselves in that which is reflected (as the opposite of Narcissus' self-reflection). This is the foundation and basis of Jungian Psychology provided we are prepared to run the risk of a transformation in this mutual discovery process..

And if God is our true condition, as Ad Da Samraj points out, then to love God above all and ("no less important" - Jesus said that) our neighbor as ourselves, makes perfect rational sense whereby anything less makes no sense at all - but the field, and the context of this mutuality of love that's a great mystery and one worthy of further exploration and mutual discovery..

It's an invitation in other words, to go deeper and in the process find the buried treasure of the true and authentic person who is love.

I hope that helps, although it might not clean up the drool..

Originally posted by WanDash
How inscrutable or unfathomable do you consider such an experience...would be?

Enough that it wouldn't and couldn't be subjected to any sort of intellectual or mind-based understanding or description..

It could very well be humorous though as an intuitive awareness, the secret knowing of not knowing relative to which we are free to creatively play a role without confusing our mysterious creative self with that role.

It could be known and expressed however in the form of a mere smile (a real one that is).

Best Regards,

Bob
aka NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
...Who (and what) are you? I mean really, deeply, at the most fundamental level?
...Are you (your true creative self prior to any artificial or superficially imposed condition) not an inscrutable and unfathomable mystery?

In reverse -
Knowing where the artificial or superficial condition was imposed, might help. Likewise, when & what was imposed... Philosophically, I would agree that the wiring & circuits are a mess... But, at least, in part - where, when & what almost seem to be the first questions that need to be answered before I can even get to whether or not...my true creative self is an inscrutable & unfathomable mystery.
And - to your first question - 'suppose I could give some rote answer, but...the best I can do (outside saying "I don't really know") is proffer - a being that is aware of itself, considering itself more than the sum of its physical parts.

...In all honesty I don't know who I am, but in knowing that I don't know, isn't that a kind of knowing even if the one at the heart of it is a mystery?

Agreed.

....................at best, we can experience ourselves as a listening presence relative to one another and recognize ourselves in that which is reflected (as the opposite of Narcissus' self-reflection). This is the foundation and basis of Jungian Psychology provided we are prepared to run the risk of a transformation in this mutual discovery process.
...And if God is our true condition, as Ad Da Samraj points out, then to love God above all and...our neighbor as ourselves, makes perfect rational sense whereby anything less makes no sense at all...

"...the risk of a transformation..." - Sounds like you're convinced such an event is possible. Is it because you "want" it to be possible? Have you listened-to/studied-after others who convinced you that it is a possibility (or even - probability)? Do you count it a "predestined" progress...or simply a potential (that would go with "creative beings")?
And - to your question regarding Ad Da Samraj -- "Yes, I think he's insane." And that makes what he says a lot more interesting (than status quo)...for me.

Thanks for taking the time to expound.

reply to post by WanDash

The moment or event (first cause) by which the condition of superficiality and inauthenticity arose and was imposed was when we first said to ourselves "I'm not ok!" and "it's not safe!". This can usually be determined, this moment when everything went haywire, by looking back to our first real EYE-OPENING memory (usually between the age of 4 and 6). Thereafter (aside from a teenage formative event as a 2nd recurrence of the same theme) - the "drama" of our life has been largely a recurring theme built around that original fear or terror in the form of a defensive shield (of superficiality/inauthenticity) by which to prevent at all cost, even at the cost of our true self and reality as it is, a recurrence. Of course since "what we resist only persists" this armor of inauthenticity or superficial conditioning didn't work and only fostered a continuation at one level or another of the very thing we most wanted to avoid.

So in a nutshell, the elderly hoarder and miser is the same one who didn't get what they really wanted with the whole of their innermost heart's desire, for Christmas, when they were five years old, etc etc.

So if you were to tell me and share what your earliest eye-popping wide-awake memory was when you said to yourself "I'm NOT ok!" and "it's not safe!" - I can generally describe the recurring theme of your life's superficial drama - seriously.

You wanted to know why what when and where, so let's put it to the test.

And trust me, it's funny, REALLY funny, on the other side of the inevitable tears of sorrow and regret.

Ironically what might be called our "strong suit" or special talent and gift has been formed by a reactive response to this drama, they key here being, in recognition, to become wholly authentic relative to what was entirely superficial or inauthentic, making of what was a strength relative to a weakness feared, a REAL strength once accepted and reintegrated for what it is, and that's funny.

We cannot deny who we are, but we can become authentic about it, and in the process experience the absolute liberation to be and to become who and what we want to be and become without constraint or limitation.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Thank you.
Would like to further this discussion...(laughter, tears & sorrows - oh me!)...but health issues are pulling me away for a bit.
Hope to return, soon.

Originally posted by WanDash
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Thank you.
Would like to further this discussion...(laughter, tears & sorrows - oh me!)...but health issues are pulling me away for a bit.
Hope to return, soon.

Oh me oh my! But more laughter, at the end of it all and a smile with the hand of reason and logic and love that's capable of wiping away the tears from our eyes.

Originally posted by WanDash
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Thank you.
Would like to further this discussion...(laughter, tears & sorrows - oh me!)...but health issues are pulling me away for a bit.
Hope to return, soon.

No rush... but it's interesting maybe the running away part whether it's health issues, or in the old days perhaps because you just purchased five yoke of oxen that require your inspection..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by WanDash
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Thank you.
Would like to further this discussion...(laughter, tears & sorrows - oh me!)...but health issues are pulling me away for a bit.
Hope to return, soon.

No rush... but it's interesting maybe the running away part whether it's health issues, or in the old days perhaps because you just purchased five yoke of oxen that require your inspection..

If it were me, it would be a choking sensation uncontrollable crying and not being able to catch the breath. When insight happens that happens.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

It's funny you should say that..

Here's what happened to me - for your reading pleasure, told twice (take one and take two) from the thread

The unending joy of absolute Liberation.

-----------------------------------

Punk'd by God

In the OP I referred to four prominent spiritual crackups or crisis (aka dark night of the soul lol -now, in hindsight). Here's an excerpt (from another thread) relating my most recent experience just over a year ago now (it occurred during Christmas), but I tell you that words cannot adequately express the actual experience itself and neither can I even fully access it emotionally in the same way that we can't ever recapture a past spiritual experience as it happened in real time, but it's a fairly good summary nevertheless and i felt it belongs here in this thread (not bragging just sharing out of interest).

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by capod2t

 

I've been through more than one mountain top experience and, "dark night of the soul", seeking the same thing, and at one point I felt as if I was under attack from certain "powers and principalities", but from what I've read about these types of journeys, that's the last stage which comes as a test. It seemed to have something to do with judgement (my own) and duality (of good and evil), so I decided, as I went to sleep one night close to Christmastime of 2011, to utterly give myself to God while forgiving ALL, whether spirits, bad aliens, the Pope, the Queen of England, my father, myself, you name it, and then I had what in hindsight I consider to be the strangest experience of my life.

In the middle of the night I woke up suddenly, as if awakened and sat bolt upright, and the perception was that I was quite literally at the end of time, because it was the end of judgement, and although it's hard to describe, I was "filled in" on a Great Joke, so funny, I could not stop laughing, but because I'm a smoker something went awry and my laughter turned to gagging, and so there I was on my floor laughing and gagging and heaving, while exclaiming "How did you KNOW?!" because it was as if I'd come to the end of the line where even Satan or "the devil within" was forgiven, and the joke was being told by God to me, about me, and about every facet of our human folly and human ignorance.

Accompanying this absolute hilarity at "the end of time" there was also a level of freedom, and liberation I never even knew existed, so laughing hysterically, after the gagging had subsided, I kind of ran around going "what do I do NOW?" which made the experience even funnier, because when all paths are open, and you go one way to do one thing, they both close on that choice and yet remain open, paradoxically. It was an absolute liberation and hyper-freedom that I'd never experienced before, and all the while I had the distinct impression that my reaction and response to the experience was being recorded.. as if on some sort of God-channel reality TV show, as a shared joke at the expense of our prior ignorance with me as the focal point of observation.

I eventually settled down, and the wet towel my upstairs roommate threw in my face, helped a little bit - he wasn't too pleased with my outburst but his own reaction just made me laugh all the more. He was concerned that the neighbors might have heard something (he's very image conscious). LOL

Anyway, who knows, maybe it was just a psychotic breakdown of some kind, but because of my absolute release from judgement and absolute trust in God, even in the face of persecution by "evil forces", it was as if I was rewarded with a taste of who God really is, and if I'm right, he is simultaneously THE most intelligent, the most loving, the most liberating and the FUNNIEST being in the history of time and space, even to the degree of knowing in advance, with the utmost precision just where we'll be when we'll encounter him.

I also learned from the experience that absolute forgiveness and release from judgement = absolute liberation, and that in the space of absolute unfettered freedom in a shared triumph over all evil, is absolute self knowledge that we really are a "child of God". But I never expected God to be that playful or that humorous, or that knowledgeable in matters of time and space, because in that moment I knew that he knew and ALWAYS knew all the way along, that I would encounter him at that very moment, like he was secretly planning it all along.

It's an incredible paradox the fact of our freedom and liberation relative to a God who transcends time and space, and who's therefore one step ahead of us, ALL the way down the line, and funny, I cannot begin to describe the humor there, or the domain of liberation and freedom that is available in that creative space of new possibility that God freely makes available to us.

I don't know if this helped at all, and I realize that a lot of people reading this will have a hard time understanding how God could be a great joker in the midst of all the sorrow and suffering of the world, to them such humor probably smacks of evil or wickedness, but it was just this side of wickedness and evil, without going over the line.

He is so smart, so loving.

Thank you for the opportunity to remind myself of the nature of the living God from my own encounter and experience. But it can be a terror (to the ego) to find one's self in his hands. In fact, I don't think it's the kind of thing that people are really interested in (that's funny!), because just one touch from the living God is enough to put any person right over the edge and cause them to lose their mind and sanity. Then again perhaps that's just what a lot of people are in dire need of, so that they won't take themselves and their life as seriously any more, while taking God much more seriously as the infinitely intelligent Alpha and Omega of existence, and beyond, and the Universal comedian, without compare.

-------------------

Punk'd by God

from the OP of the thread Have you been Punk'd by God the Master conspirator?

Originally posted by troubleshoot

God's Conspiracy is to blindside the wise, learned, mighty and noble...
...and most of you have been punk'd.


God first said He would do this through His prophet Isaiah who wrote in the 8th century BC...

"...behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." Isaiah 29:14


Paul quotes from Isaiah in his first letter to Corinth (one of the undisputed letters of Paul)...

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent (learned, intelligent). 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Corinthians 1:19-20


He did it by turning the human notions of wisdom on its head...

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:" 1 Corinthians 1:26-28


God designed a way to reveal Himself that would be rejected by the world's best and brightest...
...and it is still blindsiding those who think they are special because of wealth, education or power.


How did God punk most of you?

He revealed Himself as a babe, conceived and born in scandal...
...as a man He healed the sick, sided with the oppressed and raised the dead...
...He opposed the religious and secular elite...
...who executed Him for telling them who He really was...
...but He then turned this corporate murder into a victory over death itself.


Paul said it like this...
"...the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."


Your responses will reveal whether you have been punk'd by God or not.

[/quot]

The joke was on me, and I was ok with that - hey what else is a person to do but accept it utterly and completely, and there's a net there also to catch us, in a 100% supportive, unconditionally loving space so it get's funnier once you get it, ever moreso, enough to leave a good man heaving and gagging on his bedroom floor for no apparent reason. Oh man those were the days!

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I think I will answer the post with this video. It seem fitting;

And it's so darn good that I don't even care if it's on me for YOUR sake! lol

That's what my old friend Jesus made possible for me, for us.

"The first shall be last and the last first", you know that's not such a bad place to find yourself in as the "fall guy" i,.e.: the first to go right on in for being last (remember that Bodhisatva choice/decision point, mentioned earlier).

That's what happened to me that morning.

I woke up in heaven at the end of time and I couldn't stop laughing at the absurdity of everything else by comparison.

-----------------------------

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Here's the "crackup" from another angle

NAM, Punk'd by God - take two...action.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I feel compelled here to try to decribe this "joke of the ages" as I experienced it, although no words can really capture what it was, at the time that it happened to me, but I'll try, here goes..

It begins with a sudden epiphany of absolute liberation due to a radical tranformative forgiveness of one and all, here and everywhere, where I guess the fundamental presupposition is that absolute forgiveness is absolute freedom/liberation, perhaps with only one condition, or one thing to DO, involving our most grevious sin, against our own self (which in the light of such awareness is itself extremely humorous), and so the laughter begins.. but it gets better. Since all has been forgiven, every aspect of our prior self, and all our foibles becomes a source of immense humor (as does that of the others with whom we interact or have relationships, since everything is now so perfectly clear in the light of the truth and perfect awareness), and so laughing at ourselves, and 100% liberated to be absolutely freely self-expressed, our first inclination may be to immediate run to someone we know, to let them know that we absolutely forgive them, while also seeking their absolute forgiveness, all the while laughing as the joke just seems to keep on getting better and better. They of course, on encountering us, may be horrified, even terrified, and so they'll immediately thow up their defence shield of judgements and all manner of assumptions about us, and themselves, and seeing this, OMG the joke gets even FUNNIER, but wait there's more...! Falling down in a heap of laughter, we may now beg them not to assume anything, and desperately attempt to assure them, through tears, not of sorrow, but of laughter and joy that we are most assuredly NOT laughing AT them, at all! Still further horrified at our abhorent behavior in relation to them (hysterical) their first concern might be that we've awakened the neighbors! LOL some MORE! Recognizing their fear (lol) and amid their urgent pleading that we "calm down", after throwing a wet towel in our face (lol), we take heed and walk away, saying to ourself "ok, he's right, calm down, calm down (still giggling). Then it may occur to us that being absolutely free, we simply don't know what to DO or where the heck to GO - OMG what do I do NOW? Where do I go? (LOL) [if God could speak he would remind us here that we are entirely free to do and go where we WANT! lol some more!] "Ok ok, this can't be happening" we might think to ourselves - what can't be happening we might then ask ourselves? of course it's happening, nothing can't not happen for God's sake! lol
Perhaps then thrown into a panic, running this way and that, realizing that freedom is all around us, no matter WHAT we do or WHERE we go, a hiliarious panic might set in, and so we might run fleeing into a prison cell of our own making, the one we USED to inhabit for no reason at all (prison of absurdity), and there, laughing like an insane madman at the sheer beauty of it all, while thanking God for such hyper-freedom as this, along comes God to open the DOOR (he might even first knock, just to be polite!), "saying" as it were, don't be afraid, come on out and play and laugh some MORE! "Oh God" we say, you're just TOO FUNNY I don't know if I can DO THIS? "Why not?" God seems to ask, and so weeping and laughing tears of joy and immense gratitude, free to come and go, we exclaim "on no, I just don't know what to DO now, now I'm royally screwed in the best possible way, maybe I should start by quitting smoking, but oh God this has just been so stressful, do you mind if I put it off until the new year sometime?! LOL LOL LOL

That's sort of what it was like..

So for me, I got a cold wet towel in my face and two weeks in the hospital.

May it be so much easier for you by comparison (I'd like to think that my experience could be of value to someone other than myself, to make it all worthwhile! LOL).

Hope you enjoyed it!

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by WanDash
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Thank you.
Would like to further this discussion...(laughter, tears & sorrows - oh me!)...but health issues are pulling me away for a bit.
Hope to return, soon.

No rush... but it's interesting maybe the running away part whether it's health issues, or in the old days perhaps because you just purchased five yoke of oxen that require your inspection..

If it were me, it would be a choking sensation uncontrollable crying and not being able to catch the breath. When insight happens that happens.

I hope he's ok..

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.

Mathew 13: 44-45

Please bear in mind that I've only had a mere taste for this type of experience and the humorous knowledge which accompanies it, and that I'm always speaking as much to and for the sake of myself (true self) as anyone else. However there's just something about it that has to be shared and which cannot be withheld, even at the risk of appearing foolish or insane which is really no big deal really compared to the incalculable reward and the precious gift, of rediscovering ourselves who, although once lost in what was false and entire superficial and inauthentic, are now found and reintegrated in what is real and true.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

In case anyone was wondering about the meaning and significance of the Citizen Kane clip, it was the snowglobe within which he was reminded of "Rosebud" which was the name of the winter sleigh or sled he owned as a boy (before everything went haywire).

reply to post by WanDash

I'm hope you come back to this thread, and that your health is good, even if only internally/emotionally where it matters most.

God Bless,

NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I'm hope you come back to this thread, and that your health is good, even if only internally/emotionally where it matters most.
God Bless,
NAM

Thank you.
Hope to be able to dig a little further, this evening.
Had a HA last year...and, a scare last night.
So... If things will remain settled for the next few - hopefully, we can proceed.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

It's funny you should say that..

Here's what happened to me - for your reading pleasure, told twice (take one and take two) from the thread
...

Sorry for cutting it down...but, I'd have no room to reply,otherwise.
Something quite similar happened to me...including - returning to the room of absurdity.
You say, you spent two weeks in the hospital --- ?
Did you walk-in, or did someone-else send you there?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
...The moment or event (first cause) by which the condition of superficiality and inauthenticity arose and was imposed was when we first said to ourselves "I'm not ok!" and "it's not safe!". This can usually be determined, this moment when everything went haywire, by looking back to our first real EYE-OPENING memory (usually between the age of 4 and 6). Thereafter (aside from a teenage formative event as a 2nd recurrence of the same theme) - the "drama" of our life has been largely a recurring theme built around that original fear or terror in the form of a defensive shield (of superficiality/inauthenticity) by which to prevent at all cost, even at the cost of our true self and reality as it is, a recurrence. Of course since "what we resist only persists" this armor of inauthenticity or superficial conditioning didn't work and only fostered a continuation at one level or another of the very thing we most wanted to avoid. ...
...
...So if you were to tell me and share what your earliest eye-popping wide-awake memory was when you said to yourself "I'm NOT ok!" and "it's not safe!" - I can generally describe the recurring theme of your life's superficial drama - seriously.
...You wanted to know why what when and where, so let's put it to the test.

I don't know that I can identify that moment (first cause).
As a very young child (after 8 months but before 2 years), my mother tells that throughout the day I would incessantly ask when my father would return home (from work)... Then, when he would return (walk in the door), I would run and hide behind her.
He was quite physically abusive, and believed that was not only the right thing to do...but...his God-given DUTY.
Through the years, however, what became apparent to any outside party was that...he never used this "right", or fulfilled "his duty" without going into a hysterical rage.
...Aside from that - I don't know... My mother had numerous bouts with pneumonia (usually inspired by asthma &/or allergies) which kept my siblings and myself in constant fear that "the next one" could take her to the grave.
And that was a constant until somewhere around my 9th year in school.

...trust me, it's funny, REALLY funny, on the other side of the inevitable tears of sorrow and regret.

I have been through "tears". Unexplainable - Unpredictable...an unstoppable torrent that might arise at any moment in any place throughout any (and, for months - every) day & night of the week. This lasted the better part of a year. I could not define the source. Had many suspicions...but none seemed to fully work.

Ironically what might be called our "strong suit" or special talent and gift has been formed by a reactive response to this drama, they key here being, in recognition, to become wholly authentic relative to what was entirely superficial or inauthentic, making of what was a strength relative to a weakness feared, a REAL strength once accepted and reintegrated for what it is, and that's funny...

Don't know that I'm getting this last part...
Maybe - if you could rephrase it...

We cannot deny who we are, but we can become authentic about it, and in the process experience the absolute liberation to be and to become who and what we want to be and become without constraint or limitation...

Pairing this with the reposted story of your "dark night of the soul"...
Well - I had something...then lost it...so - maybe it will return in time to edit this...or, for another post...or - maybe it's gone for good.
Thanks again.

Originally posted by WanDash
You say, you spent two weeks in the hospital --- ?
Did you walk-in, or did someone-else send you there?

It was a mutual decision but I went willingly. It did go a little over the top however and was a tad delusional to be honest. When I went in, I RAN into the hospital as if excepting something quite extraordinary to happen, the result of which I got manhandled and restrained. Then, as they wheeled me around in a wheelchair from place to place I kept expecting the great surprise to reveal itself at any moment (I would even close my eyes and then open then whenever the chair stopped). Needless to say in the final analysis that the great surprise was that the was no surprise waiting at all!

But there were many valid epiphanies ie: the greatest possibly freedom is the freedom to be afraid or not to be afraid of being afraid, that was a great relief to me to realize that I could even willingly go into a type of panic attack without being overly concerned that it was the end of the world.

I think in today's modern world that the sensitive or the empathic almost has to undergo a shamamic type of "dark night of the soul" if only to stay in contact with a touchstone of reason and sanity!