The original and the ultimate spiritual cultivation method

Originally posted by Fevrier
You don't have to promise it's the last one.

I'm not going anywhere, ask anything.

Here's my take on vipassana. I would have to look through the Theravada sutras thoroughly, just to be sure, but most likely the Buddha never taught vipassana as a method by itself.

There are many reasons for this. One is that, like our friend above, who speaks about being the seer, the knower of the seeing of thoughts and so on, people are already very attached to the seeing/conceptual function, and vipassana tends to involve them together.

That's why it's easy for people to practice vipassana, and they tend to navigate towards it (and why modern vipassana has evolved into many weird practices, that many times end up unbalancing people) - it's basically what they've been doing all their life, being involved with their thought-concepts and their perception of it.

But this is just a form of involving karma with karma. Thoughts arise according to your karmic situation, and you perceive them within this karmic body, with it.

The karmic body finds it hard to concentrate and reach samadhi, especially when you are doing what always keeps the karmic body unbalanced - being involved with thoughts and perception.

With anapana, eventually you end up truly letting go of thoughts as they come naturally. You end up letting go of all other formations as well. But this is what anapana does, it naturally builds up the samadhi and clarity required for letting go.

Your karmic body watching thoughts is a formation involved with formations. It's pretty much endless, in the negative sense.

Anapana extinguishes formations, does not directly involve itself with thoughts, and it uncovers the natural factors of samadhi and wisdom throughout all the aspects of a being. All throughout the practice of anapana, you may or may not be faced with thoughts, according to your own circumstances, but when you are, you can let go of them with samadhi and clear wisdom.

Thoughts have no meaning. There is nothing special about your own thoughts. People doing vipassana secretly want to find out the meaning behind their own thoughts. They are holding on to beliefs about something special lying there, which are heavy self-beliefs. That's why they're doing anapana in the first place.

But the path is universal, it's the same for all beings. You struggle more, or less, according to your karma, but the path itself is the same, and anapana takes you on this path.

The very "insight" that vipassana claims it leads to has to be let go of. There is no insight. Insight suggests a realization of "something", but wisdom is not insight into something. Wisdom is the equal knowing that clings to nothing, and therefore can know anything without having a view on it. Insight is a view.

People practice vipassana with hope that by watching enough thoughts they will get enough insight into the nature of thoughts, and self, in order to realize no self. But the nature of thoughts and self is what is keeping them from realizing no-self, and guess what, if they do manage to realize it, they're really just back to step one - which is having to cultivate samadhi and the elements of the body and function within this universe - so they'd end up having to practice anapana anyway.

So vipassana is, at best, mild samadhi based on the perception process. If it is with letting go, it's better, if it's with clinging to a need for insight, it's absolutely hopeless.

Study Anapana. Practice, but also study, try to understand the frames of reference and the factors for awakening. The Heart Sutra will really help you with this, and the Diamond Sutra will give you a wider, universal frame of reference for the whole process.

And ask me anything you need to ask me, but remember, I'm not Anapana, or the Heart Sutra, or the Diamond Sutra.

Originally posted by dodol
Fevrier,

Sorry I have another question. I promise this will be my last one.

Currently i'm on vipassana (and already did this for 2 mths)
Should i change back to anapana?

Thanks

edit on 10-3-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-3-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-3-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)

From your description, I think anapana suits me the most.
Letting go of thoughts is getting harder for me these days.
I will be reading these sutras you mentioned
Thank you very much!
I really appreciate your time here

I'm glad you're finding some balance with this stuff.

In the paragraph below:

"Thoughts have no meaning. There is nothing special about your own thoughts. People doing vipassana secretly want to find out the meaning behind their own thoughts. They are holding on to beliefs about something special lying there, which are heavy self-beliefs. That's why they're doing anapana in the first place. "

I actually meant "that's why they're doing vipassana in the first place" .

Can't edit the orginal post anymore.

reply to post by Fevrier


Can you tell me what you feel you have achieved with all the practice and study that you have done? What did you get?
Why should anyone bother with any of it? What are they all looking for when embarking on this Buddhist stuff? And what do they hope to get?

Why wouldn't you bother?

Right now you're bothering everyone, peddling your minor minor "wisdom theories" as if they matter.

Why would you hope for anything? If you don't care about the truth as it is, then you have little to hope for anyway.

So first you try to cover up wisdom with your own theories, then you get angry and start making exclamations, and now you want a sales letter for Buddhism.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Fevrier

 

Can you tell me what you feel you have achieved with all the practice and study that you have done? What did you get?
Why should anyone bother with any of it? What are they all looking for when embarking on this Buddhist stuff? And what do they hope to get?

edit on 11-3-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Fevrier


C'mon you two, settle down now..

Originally posted by Fevrier
Why wouldn't you bother?

Right now you're bothering everyone, peddling your minor minor "wisdom theories" as if they matter.

Why would you hope for anything? If you don't care about the truth as it is, then you have little to hope for anyway.

So first you try to cover up wisdom with your own theories, then you get angry and start making exclamations, and now you want a sales letter for Buddhism.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Fevrier

 

Can you tell me what you feel you have achieved with all the practice and study that you have done? What did you get?
Why should anyone bother with any of it? What are they all looking for when embarking on this Buddhist stuff? And what do they hope to get?

edit on 11-3-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

You tell me I talk nonsense and tell me that I need to study and practice more so I just want to know what you hope to achieve (or have achieved) with all the 'practice and study'.
It seems that you are the authority on this subject and I would like to understand what you got from all your hard work.
I would like to see if you got what I got.


How and where did you assume that I am angry?
Why are you so offended by my posts?
It appears that you can speak down to people but people are not allowed to question you.

Originally posted by Fevrier
Ah, more of this lovely nonsense.

I wasn't speaking down to you.

Look at it this way. If I were to go on a thread discussing orchard-building, and I would jump right in and tell people, forget about orchards, just plant a bean in a pot on your balcony, wouldn't that be "lovely nonsense"?

In the same way, you basically tried to cover up a thread about a wisdom sutra on spiritual practice, with your own lovely nonsense.

Spiritual practice isn't warm and fuzzy (unless you get to transform the fire element - then it gets warm and fuzzy), it's not about one's beliefs and opinions, so I don't really have a duty to accommodate such things.

And I have already answered your question. Spiritual practice is about reaching for enlightenment, for actual truth, and cultivating real liberation in this one lifetime, or sowing the seeds for such in future lifetimes.

The other things I posted here as answers to other people give more details about what one accomplishes with spiritual practice. I presume you didn't read them.

But mostly, in immediate terms, you try to reach some degree of real non-conceptual balance, an understanding of universal processes as-they-are, and a certain degree of control over one's functions and actions, aligning them with virtue and morality and positive effects (as opposed to seeking to create positive feelings, which is a much easier but shorter term thing)