Why don't the homeless live in the bush?

Originally posted by WaterBottle

Originally posted by DarKPenguiN
-This guy did it...www.imdb.com...

He died, but he actually did what you were saying. he was actually brilliant and a hell of an outdoors man. He did some pretty amazing things and lived a pretty amazing life and at any time could have pulled up stakes and probably been a millionaire.

-But alas, he had a pretty short life.Tragic really, but he was happy and did what he wanted. I would imagine the skills he had was in the top .001% of the Nation (USA) .

Interesting movie and book about his life. I highly recommend it.

If he was a brilliant outdoors man why did he die of starvation?

McCandless had been dead for more than two weeks and weighed an estimated 67 pounds (30 kg). His official, undisputed cause of death was starvation. Krakauer suggests two factors may have contributed to McCandless's death. First, he was running the risk of a phenomenon known as "rabbit starvation" due to increased activity, compared with the leanness of the game he was hunting

en.wikipedia.org...

His venture into a wilderness area alone, without adequate planning, experience, preparation, or supplies, without notifying anyone and lacking emergency communication equipment, was contrary to every principle of outdoor survival and, in the eyes of many experienced outdoor enthusiasts, nearly certain to end in misfortune.

^Sounds like he was quite the opposite.

edit on 7-3-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)

Read the book... It was a series of events which led to his death... The area he trekked to was cut off, by flooding and even then he managed to stay alive for an very long time. Writing from memory here I think he was injusred or got very ill (very hard to recall the whole thing) and he misidentified a plant which looked exactly like another plant. The plant it actually was , was highly poisonous and wasnt supposed to grow in the area he was in (unfortunately for him the books he were mistaken) and he poisoned himself. After recovering from the poision he was too weak to even try and trek out.

-Now, your statement "if he was such a good outdoorsmen..." is a fallacy, as even the best of the best can have a "comedy of errors" leading to death. Read the book- He survived some utterly amazing ordeals.

That Crocodile Hunter guy was probably the best "crazy animal dude" I have ever seen and he got killed by a manta Ray- lol.
Now, as far as his not properly planning- You are correct. Again, we are talking here about Homeless wandering in the woods to live off the land. I am not saying that dude was a pillar of common sense and (personally) reading about his adventures leads me to believe he was an adrenaline junkie with a death wish (seeing how dangerous he could get and survive)- But that does not negate the fact that his skill and experience trumped 99.99% of the people in the USA.

Australian Aboriginals did just that for over 40, 000 years until us whitefellers come along.
The sad thing is a lot of your homeless in the city are in fact Australian Aboriginals. Isn't that a strange turnabout.
Me, if I had a choice I'd be off to the bush tomorrow. You wouldn't see me for dust. Unfortunately due to bills, work and family it aint gonna happen.
I just look forward to my holidays each year up on the Murray river. Then back to the grind, same sh*t different day.

reply to post by kudegras


Hey at least you have decent weather .

Okay.. I don't really mean living completely of the land.. I mean catching a few fish when you can, sleeping in a tent in a camping ground - there are many camping grounds in national parks and state forests that do not charge to stay..

Someone said something about crown lands thing.. you aren't trespassing on crown lands necessarily, and there are plenty of places where fishing and hunting is legal.. perhaps not national parks, but definitely state forests.

So you expenses would be: some food and booze from the shop once every few weeks, and perhaps a cheap car to get to and fro shops.

I know some fresh water rivers near me, prob about an hours trek from the road, where you are allowed to to camp free and there is plenty of fresh water and you can fish in the river....... Oh and we don't have bears in Australia as someone said.. we have bogans, but that's a different story,. Yes, if you are in the US probably take a gun for the bears and coyotes.

reply to post by bigdohbeatdown

Why don't more people do this? What attracts people to the cities when there is no work prospects?

Ever see those stories of beggars who are really making $100,000 a year off the kindness of strangers? In the cities, there are warm places to sleep, dumpsters behind restaurants with free food, begging for coin, etc. The better question is who WOULDN'T be homeless in a big city, vs. the wilderness?

You must not live in or near a national forest, or you would know that a lot of people are already living there. When homeless shelters in nearby cities run out of space, they hand them a blanket and a coat and point them toward the forest. If you think you could live wild and free in a national forest, that's just a fantasy. The homeless there are closely monitored by the Forest Service, due to fire issues and such.

reply to post by bigdohbeatdown


I live in florida, there is a large homeless camp, they live on private land the owner doesn't seem to mind. The have a commune type arrangement various tents and pole barn type structures. They have built latrines, they have access to fresh water and a generator they use to power a refrig and microwave. Most of these folks are old vets with alcohol or drug problems. Most receive SSI and panhandle or do odd jobs.

We have tried to bring many back into mainstream society via our church, they last a few months but return to the woods, I find nothing wrong with this most are lawabiding and have very strong camp rules and police themselves. I have spent many evenings around a campfire drinking some beers and talking to them, they are content and happy. More happy than most

i think there are many reasons the "homeless don't retreat to the bush" to live.

i think the number one might be that there is no money to be easily made there. contrary to what you might think, quite a lot of the "homeless" actually make a pretty good income. i had the pleasure of knowing one homeless person rather well. he lived in a tent like structure made of plastic hidden behind some bushes by a bridge. a friend used him and a couple others occasionally as extra labor for jobs he would take on. one day we had a job that was going to take several hours to complete and my friend asked him to help out. HE REFUSED, it wasn't the work that was the issue, it was the fact that it was going to be TOO TIME CONSUMING and that he wouldn't make enough money that day if he did. the weird thing is that my friend actually paid rather well, $100 FOR THE DAY, wasn't even 8 hours, and would have been even shorter with his help. this was more than i would make at my full time job even for 8 hours of work. but for this "homeless" person it would have actually been a DRASTIC cut in his pay. you see he had a $300/day CRACK HABIT he needed to pay for. his everyday "work" was opening doors for people, at a few different locations depending on the time and day, as well as standard pan handling. no chance of making that type of money in the bush.

along with the money issue like a few have said is drugs and alcohol are not near as available in the bush. and a fair chunk of the "homeless" are addicted to one or both of these things. just like the few i got to know, and a fair majority of the ones i would see in the city. in fact most money they "make"goes to supplying their habits. that is their number one issue before anything else. whether they are alcoholics, crack users whatever, their addiction is the ONE thing they care about. everything else comes in a pale second place.

for those who are not working to get a fix, normally those who have suffered more recent problems. like the old gentalman who lived on a park bench by where i lived, for several moths till he was beaten to death. a man who would clean himself up and dress in a suit. just wouldn't have the skills needed to survive in the wild. for most people in western society especially around cities, food for example comes from stores. they would have no clue how to do things like hunt, and how to clean a kill. or know what plants might be poison or good to eat. how to build a shelter and keep it heated or any type of wilderness skill. most "homeless" if they were to decide to try the bush would likely die of things like getting lost, starvation/food poisoning, being out in the elements etc.

wilderness survival has completely different skills needed than to survive in the city. where most people can adapt to living on the street, as it is just a few changes that you need to make from someone who lives, works and was brought up in "civilization". learning to live in the wild takes training which most people have none of. as well as a MUCH steeper learning curve where small mistakes/accidents have much greater power to kill.and there is no hospital, clinic or any help almost readily available when you make those mistakes.

reply to post by bigdohbeatdown


How's a homeless guy supposed to afford rego on the car to get him to the shops for his food and booze? And petrol, and tires etc etc.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by bigdohbeatdown

 

Why don't more people do this? What attracts people to the cities when there is no work prospects?

Ever see those stories of beggars who are really making $100,000 a year off the kindness of strangers? In the cities, there are warm places to sleep, dumpsters behind restaurants with free food, begging for coin, etc. The better question is who WOULDN'T be homeless in a big city, vs. the wilderness?

Bingo!! A number of years ago up in my neck of the woods, there was well known "couple" that would panhandle the off ramps in a well traveled area. They posed as a homeless couple down on their luck. Turns out, the "wife" was actually a man dressed up to play the part. They ate all of their meals in local restaurants and slept in the local motels until they got busted... Quite the racket for those with the work ethic to exploit it. Sounds kind of strange. ... If they would only apply that work ethic to real job...

Granted some are completely incapacitated by mental illness and substance addiction also. Those conditions would not serve them well out in the bush. They would just die a miserable death.

Plus, deer don't like to be panhandled....

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by bigdohbeatdown

 

Why don't more people do this? What attracts people to the cities when there is no work prospects?

Ever see those stories of beggars who are really making $100,000 a year off the kindness of strangers? In the cities, there are warm places to sleep, dumpsters behind restaurants with free food, begging for coin, etc. The better question is who WOULDN'T be homeless in a big city, vs. the wilderness?

Oh, I should let my boyfriend know about this. He grew up homeless and tells me about all the time he spent freezing, starving, being physically assaulted and raped, you read it correctly BEATEN AND RAPED WHILE FREEZING AND STARVING. And onions make him vomit because one time when he was starving he broke into a house for food but the only thing he could find to eat was a rotting onion in the trash can, and he ate it out of desperation but got violently ill and to this day cannot eat onions. If only he had known he was doing it all wrong and should have been living better than the rest of us that whole time.

[Sarcasm Off] Grow up, you sound like a Fox News talking anus.

Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by bigdohbeatdown

 

Why don't more people do this? What attracts people to the cities when there is no work prospects?

Ever see those stories of beggars who are really making $100,000 a year off the kindness of strangers? In the cities, there are warm places to sleep, dumpsters behind restaurants with free food, begging for coin, etc. The better question is who WOULDN'T be homeless in a big city, vs. the wilderness?

Bingo!! A number of years ago up in my neck of the woods, there was well known "couple" that would panhandle the off ramps in a well traveled area. They posed as a homeless couple down on their luck. Turns out, the "wife" was actually a man dressed up to play the part. They ate all of their meals in local restaurants and slept in the local motels until they got busted... Quite the racket for those with the work ethic to exploit it. Sounds kind of strange. ... If they would only apply that work ethic to real job...

Granted some are completely incapacitated by mental illness and substance addiction also. Those conditions would not serve them well out in the bush. They would just die a miserable death.

Plus, deer don't like to be panhandled....

Bingo what? Oh you've got the whole homeless racket all sussed out don't you, genius? And so now you can just make jokes about being homeless. Deer don't like to be panhandled... that is so frakking hi-larious, congrats.

Seriously though, thank you for the warning. I had thought that a couple of con artists posing as homeless people were still just a couple of con artists. Apparently they represent the entire homeless population, who are actually the ones making all the money, somehow, by being cold, hungry, filthy, and smelling terrible, and begging for what little spare change they can get because most people are too greedy to even part with that. Hey, you know what, I'll bet that the homeless, being as rich as they are, are probably the Illuminati. They are the real power behind the New World Order, with all their riches and wealth and their clever deceptiveness. And, goog god, they are all around us, how terrifying. You've cracked the NWO secret wide open there, smart one. It was the homeless this whole time.

Grow. The. F. Up.

reply to post by heyitsok


Grow up? Perhaps you only read what you wanted to read in my post and perhaps you missed the point of this thread... I also acknowledged those homeless who suffer from untreated mental illness and substance abuse as well. Yes there are others who fall into the homeless category for additional reasons and there are resources for these who are capable of being helped....and just as many fall through the cracks... You can thank deinstitutionalization for much of that...

Try not to take everything so personally... This is a big site with plenty of opinions.... It is nearly impossible to determine why every person becomes homeless and rest assured that their are plenty who treat being homeless as a full time job too...Plenty of evidence to support that... and just as much evidence to support the fact that many homeless do not want any help either.

When I was in college I befriended a mother and her adult daughter who were living in a station wagon in the back lot of my apartment building. They lived in that vehicle with one cat and a litter box full of shredded newspaper for 2 years. The police knew they were there and checked in on them. The apartment building owner let them live there and the neighbors looked in on them periodically. I do not know where they got their food and I know that they always dressed in multiple layers. They never said why or who they were running from. One day a neighbor bought them a new car battery and some gas and off they went... Who knows where... or why....

Here is a different proposal. Instead of sending the homeless out to lay waste to our national parks, what if something similar to the Civilian Conservation Corps was brought back?

en.wikipedia.org...

We enlist the homeless. Pay them minimum wage to plant trees, clean parks, grow crops in state owned fields and so forth. Provide food and basic housing. If they don't want to work, then it is their choice to be homeless. If they do drugs while in the program, they should be kicked to the curb. In which case, it is their choice to be homeless by deciding to break the rules.

reply to post by allenidaho


We already have something similar to that, it is called Job Corps. It is a pretty good concept in my opinion, as far as spending taxpayer money goes. Job Corps attracts a lot of underserved and needy youth. Food, medical and dental care, and barracks-style housing is provided. While there, students learn a trade. Those with the aptitude and motivation, can choose to go to college or university and earn a degree. There is job-placement-assistance for those who finish the program. Drugs and alcohol and weapons are forbidden; however, trade in contraband flourishes, despite a very low tolerance for such shenanigans. Violence gets you kicked out. Sometimes drug dealers will enroll and go there just for the customer base. Some "gangbanger" types who join have a problem leaving the street at home, so there is often friction between students. All in all a good program which also has some serious concerns which could be addressed better.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by bigdohbeatdown

 

Living off the land for more then a week is a lot harder then you think unless you really know what you are doing and it is a lot of work too. Most people have no clue what it entails. If you think it is just like camping out and catching some fish to eat you are sadly mistaken...

why? why is it so hard? our ancestors and even distant relatives lived that way....you talk as if society has always had the creature comforts it has now...

i can tell you this...right now if i head into the florida everglades with a back pack of basic camping supplies..i would be able to live for a very long time...even if you threw me in there with nothing but a lighter, you can bet that i would do whatever it takes to survive, i would eat snakes insects ANYTHING to survive and thrive, that is the basic human instinct and spirit, to survive no matter what...

adaptability has brought us to this point, apparently some of you have forgotten this also the miccosukee Indian tribe has lived in the everglades for hundreds of years, thats right in the SWAMP and they thrived and have modernized themselves ...look them up..its possibl .

i dunno

maybe the mental illness ? maybe the kids in tow ?

Hi,

i would of thought the worst place for a homeless person to set up camp shall we say would be a rural setting, more colder in winter and unless they have survivalist training to capture and kill food, then they are going to be worse of food wise than in a suburban setting.

Originally posted by k1k1to
why? why is it so hard? our ancestors and even distant relatives lived that way....you talk as if society has always had the creature comforts it has now...

i can tell you this...right now if i head into the florida everglades with a back pack of basic camping supplies..i would be able to live for a very long time...even if you threw me in there with nothing but a lighter, you can bet that i would do whatever it takes to survive, i would eat snakes insects ANYTHING to survive and thrive, that is the basic human instinct and spirit, to survive no matter what...

adaptability has brought us to this point, apparently some of you have forgotten this also the miccosukee Indian tribe has lived in the everglades for hundreds of years, thats right in the SWAMP and they thrived and have modernized themselves ...look them up..its possibl .

edit on 18-3-2013 by k1k1to because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2013 by k1k1to because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2013 by k1k1to because: (no reason given)

The reason the homeless can not do this is two fold. First, they don't have camping supplies. Second, our ancestors trained to live in such conditions from birth. They cultivated the required skills to survive over their entire lifetime. The homeless do not have these skills nor a tribe to fall on for support. You think the average homeless person has the most basic knowledge about how to kill and gut a deer, let alone know how to smoke the meat?