“Do Not Resuscitate”—Let’s Talk about CPR

reply to post by MajorKarma


Apparently so. In my world, ICU nurses will tolerate some level of crap out of a patient, after all they're not there because they're at their best. When you get into a bit too much of 'you will do this, you will not do that, dance monkey dance' along with maybe some cursing and a bit of physical abuse, you'll be restrained, chemically or physically. In New Orleans where he was working at the time, patients striking nurses or screaming profanity at them when they were in their right mind often resulted in the parish deputies paying a visit to the patient informing them of their impending arrest on discharge.

The nurses are not there to be your target. Not unless you're a football jock or a multi-million dollar contributor to the hospital foundation, in which case you'd get the penthouse suite and foot rubs. But not for the run-of-the-mill valve replacement.

Originally posted by soulwaxer

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Question (BTW I completely agree with you)
What is stopping our governments bringing in laws that would help people who want to be assisted in their passing?
I suspect it is religion but I would like to hear your thoughts.

It is for a large part religion, but it is also our culture in general.

But the times they are a changin'!
See my post above. Belgium is at the forefront in this issue. It is amazing to see how quickly people adjust to a new way of thinking about dying.

soulwaxer

Ummm...I think that the Tibetan Buddhists and "The Tibetan Book of The Dead" have it the most...right. As far as preperation for passing on, however I think that what you described in Belgium is a step in the right direction. I also believe that individuals should take charge and...own...their end of life and having that conversation shouldn't have stigma attached.

If one considers that energy cannot be destroyed...only changed...entanglement and vibration, then perhaps the resonant aspects of Tibetan Buddhist teachings as per preperation for that next phase, can be appropo? I can't say for sure but in my own way, I would certainly like to have that experiance as I passed...

YouSir

reply to post by beckybecky


I know that there are a lot of nurses out there who are not up to the job and should not be nurses, I have come across them myself. It is regrettable that you have had a bad experience but that is not the experience that most patients and their families have, we get far more thank you cards and tins of chocolates than official letters of complaint.

I can only speak for the NHS trust I work in but we don’t get pushed to use the LCP nor do we or the hospital get any money for using it, although we use it anyway at times. If other trusts do get incentives to use the LCP then I don’t think that is right, it should be being used when appropriate regardless of what the hospital gets out of it. I might moan about the paperwork but it is required for a whole host of reasons that I won’t get into.

We also don’t earn £30,000 a year, our pay varies some of us get £22000 but others can be earning £50000 it depends on our banding and other things such as that.

I would like to remind you however that this thread is not a thread about us nurses all being nice wonderful people who should all be walking around with halo’s. This thread is about the nature of CPR in a health care setting, contrary to what some posters think it is not about the recent case in America specifically.

reply to post by MajorKarma

I have been very fortunate to have a heart specialist who has made sure to clue nursing staff in on my utter lack of tolerance for nurses that do other than they are told.

Let me start by saying that this thread is not about the actions of that nurse in the care facility that you mentioned

I do however love this quote above because I know that’s probably not what happened, your doctor has probably gone to nursing staff who has said something to the effect of this “MajorKarma has been a bit of a awkward B***** has something against nurses so if he causes you any problems just let me know and I will have him taken of my patient list if it continues”.

We nurses don’t have to do what you tell us to do, we are all highly educated individuals most of us have at the very least a degree however many of us have masters degrees and even Phds. We don’t go through that level of training only so we can do what the doctor says we do or what the patient says we should do. A lot of the time it’s the nurses telling the medics what is needed not the other way around at least that is my experience, we are a team the nurse, the doctor and all other members of the health care team are of equal importance. We are not your chamber mains we are high trained and highly experienced health care professionals

Fortunately for you we nurses practice something called unconditional positive regard, so even if you were to say “I don’t like you” it means we still treat you in the same way regardless of who you are. I find it really bizarre that you have this universal hate of all nurses. That ward for example that you went on to could have had the best nursing team ever. I also love that you say “this does not apply to male nurses”, to me it suggests a level of sexism and I say that as a male nurse, my experience is that there is no difference between male and female nurses.

Please remember that nurses are not silly little girls that go around saying “yes doctor” and cleaning up you poo. We are highly trained heath care professionals who deserve just as much respect as your doctor, dentist, physiotherapist, OT and health care assistant.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Pardon me if I don't quote or attempt to address all of what you and the other have said; I know the world you live in and I am well aware of how those who purportedly serve are now served; how patients are made to feel lucky to get care; the lists and examples of how truly upside down the world has become are everywhere and the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave has become so corrupted that it is proof enough that their is a Devil. I see how people have been made to live lies..perpetually and recognize that this nation is now so deep in the belly of the beast that most people are happy to just not be stepped on. And I recognize that just because I participate in this forum and have this exchange with you, that you assume what is true for you, is true for me and there really is no point in my detailing just how untrue that is. You are Dregs and the Descendants of the Dregs mentioned on the Statue of Liberty. A day in my life when and where I am out amongst you could be tracked by bruised, insulted and put in their place souls who mistakenly think I am you or them, I am not and were it not for my children and their lives here that they have begun and love, I would have long since removed us from amongst you. I have said it many times here, ATS is an unusual situation for me where I am able to interact with people I would otherwise not; empathize and sympathize with people I would otherwise not and yes it has given me a chance to play of the side of the Teaming Masses but I am not one of you. Yes, I am a human being and yes I still get untangled in your sewage but never for long. I have told you how it is for me and mine but you can't grasp it; the thought of a Heart Specialist coming by my home this morning to check on me goes beyond what you can grasp, just like how I told you it was for me in the hospital and I am not going to explain why what is true for you and yours, is not true for me and mine, except to tell you it is not and it would only take one exchange in the real world to realize why. I subject and submit to TOS here because I value the participation in this forum and the opportunity to engage people I would not otherwise and yes, it is true, I get caught up in the petty struggles and debates but it is like putting on rags so I can go mix and mingle amongst the people. It goes far beyond money, beyond influence, beyond the cop on the beat and judge on the podium and I am not going to detail why what applies for you and yours, does not apply for me and mine; nor will it when the final pieces are put in place for the implosion of this economy and country. I have already told you how it was for me at the Hospital and you either called me a liar or spun it to sound like I am some deluded fool so, believe what you like. I will say this, my family have for generation gone to great length not to be trapped by the rule of law, these systems that are chains for the masses and were it not for the children, who are all precious and a the few admirable souls I encounter here and their, I would say on the whole, you all well deserve everything you get and have coming. As it stands, this recent heart complication is proving a wonderful opportunity to again reason with my children and I am closer than ever to convincing them to leave with me from amongst you and avoid being pulled down into the culling that approaches; it is not like you were not warned.

There was a line in a movie I have used a number of times, not because it is a perfect fit but because it comes close to how things are for me and mine, I will share it again and risk your spinning another illusion that I am just another arrogant fool who thinks he is special...special is far from the correct word.

I have thought about it and decided this really was not worthy of a response; believe whatever you like.

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

; I know the world you live in and I am well aware of how those who purportedly serve are now served; how patients are made to feel lucky to get care; the lists and examples of how truly upside down the world has become are everywhere and the Land of the Free, ]

I am with you Major Karma and I used to be a nurse, in critical care amongst other places. I agree that nurses should have the patient top and centre in their considerations. This means gaining trust - although valve replacement surgery can be very quick these days, [you can be in and out in 3 days], it is still extremely scary.
I would be terrified if it was me.
I am glad you have recovered and I wish you health and best wishes for the future.Stay well.

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

; I know the world you live in and I am well aware of how those who purportedly serve are now served; how patients are made to feel lucky to get care; the lists and examples of how truly upside down the world has become are everywhere and the Land of the Free, ]

I am with you Major Karma and I used to be a nurse, in critical care amongst other places. I agree that nurses should have the patient top and centre in their considerations. This means gaining trust - although valve replacement surgery can be very quick these days, [you can be in and out in 3 days], it is still extremely scary.
I would be terrified if it was me.
I am glad you have recovered and I wish you health and best wishes for the future.Stay well.

Helen, I often forget that many of these people are living in some sort of hell or festering sewer.

Some years back, one of my brother's got trapped in the scenario these dregs paint so well but, it was at what supposedly is one of the best Cancer Treatment Hospitals in the country (City Of Hope). Between their barbaric treatments and lazy nurses, he ended up having to be rushed to Cedars-Sinai where they did open heart surgery before I could get to him to take control of the situation. It was all a living nightmare for my brother and for me faced with being able to do too little too late; they murdered him as sure as if they had poisoned him and to this day my name brings shivers to the administrators of that hospital; if I had the opportunity today to kick them in the teeth, I would...does this make me a "Hater"

It is a very long story but, I too had had the same weird cancer (I believe we were both exposed to some cancer agents when I was going through the finally phases of building a horse-racing and gaming facility here in SoCal...kind of like how they killed Hugo Chávez ) but in my case I spit in the Cancer Specialists faces when they recommended Chemo, Radiation and their other Barbaric procedures; I dictated my own course of treatment and 14 years later I have not had problem one until this problem with my heart popped up and here again, I am in control of my treatment. Guess you would call me a Control Freak and outside of God or Jesus himself anyone who thinks I am to be one of their victims, is in for a harsh awakening.

I have said it elsewhere, I have spoken at length with the best of the best and as it happens, a old friend of my is the CEO for the company that produces the "Medtronic CoreValve" and while I could have gone to Canada or France for a similar procedure, I have decide to pay cash and have the latest CoreValve installed via Transcatheter at a small private hospital in Dana Point. The valve is still going through the FDA Trials but here again, there are always means to an end for those who simply will not accept less than the best.

I could go on and on about this subject but the fact is I am very rare and the majority of people get treated like cattle...not me or mine ever again. I doubt even Dick Chaney could get the kind of treatment I get, why? Because I make it so and accept nothing less. Nurses? I have only had problems wit a few nurses in my life because I nipped them at the first sign of in appropriateness. If the head nurse or Hospital Administrators can't satisfy me, I have an army of people, including attorneys dying for the opportunity to rush in to help me. No brag, just a fact. I could go on to tell you about my relationships with Law Enforcement and Politicians but that would be some sort of tacky bragging. I am in fact regretting having ever opened my mouth on this subject as it is beneath me to expose myself on subjects with people who to a large extent don't live in the same world as I do. I hope you read this soon , as I will be deleting it.

BTW, I am not in anyway scared of this procedure or death for that matter and my bet is I will be in and out of the hospital in 24 hours. The Procedure with take less than 30 minutes. I had a Stint installed last Thursday and checked myself out the next morning. Everyone, including the doctors are in something of awe of me but anyone who knows me finds it a learning experience but here again, it will all just sound like bragging. The fact is, most people really live life some kind of subservient slaves...NOT ME.

reply to post by MajorKarma


This thread is based on UK nursing not American nursing, if you have had a bad experience that is regrettable but your attitude towards others sucks, you have zero respect for people who are or should be trying to help you and have an incredibly arrogant approach over all to this thread. I am not “beneath” you nor am I spawn of the “dregs” how about you trying actually showing some respect and stop with this pathetic little rant you are having.

To be clear this is a thread about DNR policies and CPR it is not a opportunity for you to have a moan about nursing staff.

Your attitude sucks, you sound very bitter.

Yesterday I left work knowing I was directly responsible for saving the life of a mother, I bet you cant say you done the same.

reply to post by MajorKarma


I think nurses and doctors and paramedics - can become very institutionalised in the way they deliver care.

What I mean by this is that SOME not all can become very blase in their casual cruelness. If you challenged them they would deny it.

I think hospital can be a hard world and it can damage the people who work in that environment - especially when conditions are harsh and staffing is bad, stress decreases their compassion.

For patients - I agree with what you said. I think they should be at the centre of the equation but often they are not and they are dictated too by so called medical professionals who do not listen to them.

I think hospital is a scary place and most people feel very vulnerable in such an environment particularly when they are ill. Unfortunately - most do not have access to lawyers and influential people, so they have to put up with the absolute crap that is sometimes thrown at them. I think it is heart breaking.

On a positive note - there are good nurses and good doctors and good hospitals - but too few for my liking.

reply to post by MajorKarma

I know the world you live in and I am well aware of how those who purportedly serve are now served; how patients are made to feel lucky to get care

You know nothing of the world I live in please do not make such presumptions, you know nothing about me and I know nothing about you so please stop making this personal. Patients are lucky to receive high quality health care, we in the UK are very fortunate to have such a health care system, it is far from perfect but it’s better than what most get.

the lists and examples of how truly upside down the world has become are everywhere and the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave has become

This thread is very much a UK perspective on things, not everything revolves around America please keep that in mind when responding to my posts. Yes I can comment on the universal nature of CPR and requests for DNR but fundamentally I have a UK approach something made very clear in my OP

that you assume what is true for you, is true for me

no i dont however you seem to be presuming that you know me and that i am from America so i would say that this statement is more ture of you that it is of me.

You are Dregs and the Descendants of the Dregs mentioned on the Statue of Liberty.

Why are you being so offensive, there is absolutely no need for this comment and once again I am form the UK not America. My decedents are not the “dregs” and I am far from the “dregs” of society. That comment is uncalled for and I deserve an apology.

the thought of a Heart Specialist coming by my home this morning to check on me goes beyond what you can grasp,

No that is something i can quite easily grasp.

I have already told you how it was for me at the Hospital and you either called me a liar or spun it to sound like I am some deluded fool so, believe what you like

I have done nothing of the sort at no point have I said that you were a liar and I think you should retract that statement.

Really all in all your attitude as I have said above is absolutely awful you have this pathetic arrogance about you, I actually think you have some delusion that you’re better than me and the other members hear. I have no problem engaging with you in debate about this issue, that is CPR and DNR, not your heart problems or your experiences of poor nursing care which I am sure goes on but would you please do so respectfully without this sad arrogance.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I have to say that you sound as if you are very good at your job and you obviously work very hard. However, I think that alot of nurses in the UK lack these specific qualities. I was shocked to be honest when I was in hospital recently. Things have defintely gone south in terms of care and attitude and skills !

reply to post by HelenConway



I believe that holistic evidence based patient centred care should be at the heart of all nursing practice. I also acknowledge that unfortunately this is not always the case and there are some very bad nurses out there but my experience has been that on the whole most nurses are fit for the job.

That however is not the subject of this thread, this thread is about CPR and DNR’s not about the very broad issue of nursing care.

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reply to post by MajorKarma


LOL!

Reminder:

Keep it chilled people...you all know the rules...


Cheers.

reply to post by alien


ok sorry boss, got a little heated there.