Facility Nurse Watches Patient Slowly Die, Refuses CPR

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
The news report says that the Home has a policy against CPR. Interesting....

ah and the 911 operator says that EMS would take LIABILITY and it's protocol.

They can take all the liability they want. It will not protect the lawful licensing guidelines the state of California has for facilities not licensed to practice medicine.

As I pointed out in the thread above, firstly, they would come under state board examiners for practicing medicine without a license.

Then, every family that had a loved one die there under a peaceable agrrement would have ambulance chasing attorneys drag them out of the woodwork to sue the facility for not "doing enough" for their loved ones. "If they helped her, why not my mom/dad/aunt etc.

You see how that could go in some very ugly ways for a facility that has laws to follow? In the end, the owners and staff involved could have faced jail time for providing medical care without a license. This is about far more than one persons' job. It could have come down to the facility being closed, and people going to jail.

reply to post by Catalyst317


Well i live in bakersfield, and the lack of humanity is rampant, its immplorable

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by mugger
It is unfortunate this lady died. Blame it on the lawyers. There is no way the nurse can know everyone's death wishes to do not resuscitate orders(if they have one).

This was not the case,If lady had a DNR order and the nurse performed CPR and saved her...big lawsuit.

The article states the woman did not have a DNR order.

End of that discussion, unless the journalist got it wrong. Would the nurse have known it if the woman had a DNR or not, I would hope so. If she didn't have that info handy, could she have gotten it?

Firstly, this article is in a blog. So be it, however MUCH of their "factual information" was wrong at best, and totally left out in some instances.

The woman did not die at the home.

No one at that facility would have stated if she had a DNR or not, that would violate HIPAA law.

She had most likely not disclosed if she desired a DNR, this was an elderly apartment complex. Not a nursing facility. There was no more need to disclose that, than there is for you to disclose that to your apartment manager. IF it was disclosed at all, which I highly doubt, it was to pass on to EMTs that arrived, while she was alive, who transported her to the hospital where she later died.

I highly question this alleged "knowledge" of a DNR or not.

I highly question the motive of the blog, as the title is a lie, and the story leaves out VITAL information other articles have.

No one watched her die. She was very much alive when she left for hospital.

i did not know that america is so #ed up. thaught this was only happening in movies. in germany this nurse would go to jail. thank god.

reply to post by Catalyst317


Well, she was 80, just saying ^^

I most likely would have pushed her out of the way and at least freaking tried, worse I could do is kill her faster?

I sure as hell wouldn't hold anyone else back from doing it
"Nurse: ”I understand, I am a nurse but I can’t have our other senior citizens that don’t know CPR doing that.”

who the f is she to decide.

Should be tried on manslaughter/negligence and the facility held responsible

Don't nurse and doctors take an oath,, Hippocratic oath or something? Not sure on the nurses I know doctors do. Regardless to be in a position to help, actually be trained for that type of help, and just watching someone pass away for no reason..

Let alone after I finished reading this article I would go down and pay a little visit to colleen and her supervisor most likely leaving in a car marked with red and blue lights all around them ^^.

Policy or not IM pretty sure there are laws for NOT HELPING SOMEONE WHEN YOU COULD HAVE

From what I've read about the patient, she was a NO CODE! You do know that means no CPR, resuscitation, etc. You'd better not go against a person's NO CODE.

I spent 5 years training to become a Nurse. At the end of it there were no nurse jobs so I never was actually empolyed as a nurse though i did work as a carer in a home for the elderly.

The situation described in the op I've seen happen on hospital wards. It was quite upsetting for me. I just had to stand and watch while an old lady screamed for help and eventually passed away. The Nurses and Doctors present seemed to think all was in order.

At the old folks home it quite often happens the somebody falls to the floor and they need help getting up. It used to be that whoever was around would rush to help them up again but that all stopped when 3 members of staff helped one lady up asking her all the time if she was ok and she said yes, but it turned out she had actually cracked a bone somewhere and a couple days later she was in agony. The family complained and the staff members nearly lost their jobs.

So now when somebody falls down nobody touches them. Instead they call the NHS who then speak to the old yin on the floor, ask them a bunch of questions and then might send an ambulance round.

It's farcical.

California woman denied CPR wanted no intervention, family says

The family of an 87-year-old woman who was denied CPR at a California independent living home by a woman who identified herself to a 911 dispatcher as a nurse says she chose to live in a facility without medical staff and wanted to pass away without life-prolonging intervention.

The family of Lorraine Bayless told the Associated Press they do not plan to sue the facility where the 87-year-old woman died last week.

The family says they understand the widely played 911 tape in which a dispatcher pleads with a nurse to start CPR "has caused concern" nationwide.

The statement says the family regrets that "this private and personal time has been escalated by the media."


Read more: www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by Libertygal


oh ok so it was a blog.

How about AP? Is that mainstream journalistic news?

It prompted calls for legislation Monday to prevent a repeat of what happened Feb. 26 at Glenwood Gardens in Bakersfield.

She lived in the independent living building, which state officials said is like a senior apartment complex and doesn't operate under licensing oversight.

"This is a wakeup call," said Assemblywoman Mariko Yamada, chair of the California Assembly Aging and Long-term Care Committee. "I'm sorry it took a tragedy like this to bring it to our attention."

Independent living facilities "should not have a policy that says you can stand there and watch somebody die," said Pat McGinnis, founder of California Advocates for Nursing Home Reform, a consumer advocacy group. "How a nurse can do that is beyond comprehension."

"The consensus is if they are a nurse and if they are at work as a nurse, then they should be offering the appropriate medical care," said Russ Heimerich, spokesman for the California Board of Registered Nursing, the agency that licenses health care providers.

www.policeone.com...

So are you one of those people who believes liberty means the right to die because people in modern medicine forgot the Hippocratic oath?

reply to post by bigyin

The situation described in the op I've seen happen on hospital wards. It was quite upsetting for me. I just had to stand and watch while an old lady screamed for help and eventually passed away. The Nurses and Doctors present seemed to think all was in order.

This is what I mean. I think the attitude you describe is part of the bigger agenda of depopulation worldwide. I have seen the trend. It may not be an obvious indoctrination, but it seems evident to me that it is a subtle shift brought about by people who promote doctor assisted suicide, and in precedent cases like the one where a judge allowed Terri Schiavo to be deliberately starved to death in a most brutal and inhumane fashion.

We heard horrible stories of how nurses in a certain hospital euthanized patients who were left behind during the hurricane Katrina disaster. Sounds like right out of a horror movie.

And then there's this

The family's statement to the Associated Press absolving an elder care home of blame came less than 1-and-a-half hours before the company issued a statement saying the employee's failure to heed a 911 dispatcher's was the result of a misunderstanding of the company's emergency medical practices

The nurse's decision has prompted multiple state and local investigations.

The California attorney general was "aware" of the incident, said a spokeswoman, Lynda Gledhill. Bakersfield police were trying to determine whether a crime was committed when the nurse refused to assist the 911 dispatcher looking for someone to start CPR.

The nation's largest trade group for senior living facilities has called for its members to review policies that employees might interpret as edicts to not cooperate with emergency responders.

www.cbsnews.com...

Originally posted by NellahB
From what I've read about the patient, she was a NO CODE! You do know that means no CPR, resuscitation, etc. You'd better not go against a person's NO CODE.

City fire officials say Bayless did not have a "do not resuscitate" order on file at the home. The family and the company have not commented

www.cbsnews.com...

So where is this no code stuff coming from?

Terri Schiavo's husband clalimed to know what her wishes were, but there was nothing legal on file anywhwere, no notes or anything.
Just because the family thinks that she was elderly and maybe it was her time is not an excuse. What Obamacare and the Progressives have done is create reasonable doubt that people's lives are valuable.

There's so little info in this stury that it is imoossible for any of you to make a sound judgement over this death.

My gf works in this field... tending the elderly. I asked her what the policies are in Danish homes and facilities and she said its both a judgement call and a contract one. You would be surprised how many elderly have signed DNRs simply to keep the family from making that awful decission.

I think its because most of you cant relate to what it is like to reach the near end of your life and be in pain day in and day out. Go see Amour..... experience the end of life for good or bad.

In cases where there is no DNR but a very ill person who basically would suffer more being alive, the personal most commonly hurries to get an ER unit slowly.......

Dont pass judgement on other peoples lives or pretend to think you know what they would want or what is best for them when all you can think about is living at what ever cost.

Originally posted by NellahB
From what I've read about the patient, she was a NO CODE! You do know that means no CPR, resuscitation, etc. You'd better not go against a person's NO CODE.

THEN WHY CALL 911 EMERGENCY??????????????????????????????????????????????

Originally posted by flice
There's so little info in this stury that it is imoossible for any of you to make a sound judgement over this death.

My gf works in this field... tending the elderly. I asked her what the policies are in Danish homes and facilities and she said its both a judgement call and a contract one. You would be surprised how many elderly have signed DNRs simply to keep the family from making that awful decission.

I think its because most of you cant relate to what it is like to reach the near end of your life and be in pain day in and day out. Go see Amour..... experience the end of life for good or bad.

In cases where there is no DNR but a very ill person who basically would suffer more being alive, the personal most commonly hurries to get an ER unit slowly.......

Dont pass judgement on other peoples lives or pretend to think you know what they would want or what is best for them when all you can think about is living at what ever cost.

THEN WHY CALL 911 EMERGENCY?????????????????????????

reply to post by Libertygal

I highly question this alleged "knowledge" of a DNR or not

Numerous articles have stated that there was no order on file, including city officials. Why does it take firefighters to save peoples lives these days instead of nurses?

hard to fathom that a simple lack of action has invited a slew of legal and moral arguments. The Good Samaritan laws come into play, especially since they vary by state. Simply put, the nurse’s role in the woman’s death is an ethical disgrace. In an age where companies and employers fear any form of liability, instances such as this unfortunately occur. One should not have to convince someone to do the right thing, but apparently you do.

www.policymic.com...

The Good Samaritan rule

When any doctor of medicine or dentistry, nurse, member of any organized rescue squad, member of any police or fire department, member of any organized volunteer fire department, emergency medical technician, intern or resident practicing in a hospital with training programs approved by the American Medical Association, state trooper, medical aidman functioning as a part of the military assistance to safety and traffic program, chiropractor, or public education employee gratuitously and in good faith, renders first aid or emergency care at the scene of an accident, casualty, or disaster to a person injured therein, he or she shall not be liable for any civil damages as a result of his or her acts or omissions in rendering first aid or emergency care, nor shall he or she be liable for any civil damages as a result of any act or failure to act to provide or arrange for further medical treatment or care for the injured person.

Any person who in good faith renders emergency care, without renumeration or expectation of renumeration, at the scene of an accident or emergency to the victim of the accident or emergency shall not be liable for any civil damages resulting from the persons acts or omission, except for such damages as may result from the persons gross negligence or wanton acts or omissions."

definitions.uslegal.com...

wanton act of omission....such as ignoring the pleas of an emergency dispatcher?

Here's an article saying that if she is a registered nurse the facility's policy is meaningless but now her credentials as a nurse are in question.
fox40.com...

Apparently now, the nurse is on leave and the care center is flip flopping. And as many can now tell how I feel, why did the nurse dial 911 in the first place. She either felt the person needed being saved or she didn't. Why make the phone call? She will be immortalized for being the nurse who didn't do her duty, and very publicly so. Quite frankly, I would not want to go to that nursing home.

If the nurse had no idea as to the ladys feelings regarding DNR you would imagine she should have initiated CPR! Essentially erred on the side of caution.

Obviously in a situation like this it's better to be wrong and save the person rather than let them die in before your eyes because a DNR order may or may not be in effect!

At the very least its bad judgement on her part!

If it was one of my grandparents i would have her prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no ifs, no buts, no coconuts!

Haven't read all the replays yet but I needed to post.

First, frequently in assisted living facilities the residents take care of themselves. Often there is no one on staff who is a nurse. You may have a nurses aid or a medication technician, both of which are very different in training from a nurse. Both if which get confused as nurses by people who don't know better. OR at assisted living facilities you may have no trained medical personnel at all. Nor are they required to have trained medical personnel as the residents are expected to be self sufficient.

Second, how many of you have done CPR on a real person. It is nothing at all like the training dummies. You feel bones break on every compression, especially on someone so old. You have vomit blood and body fluids everywhere. You have smells, sights and sounds that are hard for the average person to deal with. So before you condemn someone for not performing CPR, especially someone who might not have even been trained, walk a mile in their shoes.

I have been a paramedic and worked on an ambulance for 12 years so that's where my knowledge of this stuff comes from. I have performed CPR on dozens of people throughout my career. And honestly that's probably a low estimate.

hey honey how was your day today?

"oh you know the usual, old lady fell down, sat there and watched her die a slow and painful death while i waited for EMS to get there!"

this story is sickening beyond believe.